Russia v Ukraine

[DJLJ]

On 06/05/2022 at 15:33, Section_31 said:

 

General Staff reported that #Russia has lost another ship. The MP from Odesa and local media outlets claim it is the Russian Navy patrol ship Admiral Makarov, an Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate. Needs to be confirmed.

This was a hoax: https://t.me/readovkanews/33186

The hoax done by a Ukrainian journalist as per TOM: https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/supplement-second-warship-of-the-russian-navy-hit-by-neptunes-4ee8da52e48d

 

[Section_31]

6 minutes ago, DJLJ said:

This was a hoax: https://t.me/readovkanews/33186

The hoax done by a Ukrainian journalist as per TOM: https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/supplement-second-warship-of-the-russian-navy-hit-by-neptunes-4ee8da52e48d

 

 

Jive ass motherfuckers. 

[Anubis]

This made me laugh in Tom's most recent update.

 

Quote

Certainly enough, while none of units in question refused to fight, there is a growing dissent. People understand the chaos, and urgency, and are eager to fight and ready to pay the price. But, troops demand at least a week of training to learn how to coordinate their platoons and companies.

 

Sadly, but as expected, nothing similar is valid for many of Westerners that volunteered to fight for Ukraine. Sure, most of them are combat experienced, and their help is welcome. However, they’re used to fight for the side in possession of air superiority and absolute firepower superiority. Thus, whenever in contact with enemy, they take cover and start requesting artillery support and air support and orbital support and whatever else — which the Ukrainians simply cannot provide. And then they are (quote), ‘like what the fuck?’

 

Unsurprisingly, many have left — ‘in disgust’.

 

Well, gentlemen: welcome to realities of the war in Ukraine. Not everybody is fighting his/her wars by the means of vast material superiority, and only if supplied by steaks, beers, and sun lotions.

 

[SasaS]

They do supply them with chocolate it seems.

 

 

 

[ManéMan]

 

[TheHowieLama]

The guy has 200 followers.

 

@ManéMan 

[SasaS]

O say, can you see
By the dawn's early light

 

 

[cochyn]

Whatever happens, you can guaran-fucking-tee the Azovstal plant will be a map in the next Call of Duty game. The Chairborne Division will be all over it like white on rice.

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 hours ago, ManéMan said:

 

I don’t need to imagine anything, you absolute fucking crank. I’m witnessing the illegal invasion and murder of a European country by a fascist regime. 

[Gnasher]

Yet another round of funding for a war in Eastern Europe we are not directly involved in. This new funding is on top of six rounds of economic sanctions that have proved totally ineffective and have probably not saved one Ukrainian life. 

 

How long until the tub thumpers allow questions to be asked and eyebrows to be raised?

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-08/uk-to-hand-over-13-billion-in-support-of-ukraines-fight-against-russia

 

Meanwhile;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/may/09/more-than-2m-adults-in-uk-cannot-afford-to-eat-every-day-survey-finds

[ZonkoVille77]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Yet another round of funding for a war in Eastern Europe we are not directly involved in. This new funding is on top of six rounds of economic sanctions that have proved totally ineffective and have probably not saved one Ukrainian life. 

 

How long until the tub thumpers allow questions to be asked and eyebrows to be raised?

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-05-08/uk-to-hand-over-13-billion-in-support-of-ukraines-fight-against-russia

 

Someone else mentioned it was like one big money laundering/public to private fund transfer operation and I scoffed. Beginning to think there's some truth in it. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, ManéMan said:

 

What is ‘this’?

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

Someone else mentioned it was like one big money laundering/public to private fund transfer operation and I scoffed. Beginning to think there's some truth in it. 

It's becoming the new PPE/ Covid fund scam. Some are doing very well out of this war and no prizes for guessing right 

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/ukraine-war-uk-lords-richer-arms-investments-russia-bae-systems/

[Gnasher]

I'm sure our government will match this new 1.3 billion funding with money for direct  humanitarian aid for those innocent Ukrainians savaged by Putin...

 

Errr oh dear,

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61151045

 

[SasaS]

Tom Cooper updated again, because the situation is not so good.

 

He thinks there is a decisive battle going on and the Russians have a serious upper hand at the moment.

 

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-9-may-2020-a1137caa3ed7

[SasaS]

4 hours ago, Gnasher said:

It's becoming the new PPE/ Covid fund scam. Some are doing very well out of this war and no prizes for guessing right 

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/ukraine-war-uk-lords-richer-arms-investments-russia-bae-systems/

How is this a new scam? Some people had shares in weapons manufacturers or similar companies (which I think you are also free to buy) which went up some at the beginning of the war, because that is when the arms industry is expected to do well.

 

You think that UK should respond to a major European aggression by not helping the victim, watching from the sidelines as Ukrainians are run over and then pay much more than 1.3 billion in all economic and humanitarian costs of a successful Russian war against a country of 40 million people, not to mention the human cost? Vastly increased military spending after Russian victory which would probably dwarf what will be happening now. How idiotic would that be?  On top of being devoid of any humanity.

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, SasaS said:

How is this a new scam? Some people had shares in weapons manufacturers or similar companies (which I think you are also free to buy) which went up some at the beginning of the war, because that is when the arms industry is expected to do well.

 

You think that UK should respond to a major European aggression by not helping the victim, watching from the sidelines as Ukrainians are run over and then pay much more than 1.3 billion in all economic and humanitarian costs of a successful Russian war against a country of 40 million people, not to mention the human cost? Vastly increased military spending after Russian victory which would probably dwarf what will be happening now. How idiotic would that be?  On top of being devoid of any humanity.

Me devoid of humanity? Yet you meekly abide our governments pathetic humanitarian efforts in helping the people enduring the war in Ukraine and the people forced to flee. My opinion is our government couldn't give a fuck about the people of Ukraine and their pathetic actions in humanitarian aid enforces that opinion.

[Gnasher]

36 minutes ago, SasaS said:

How is this a new scam? Some people had shares in weapons manufacturers or similar companies (which I think you are also free to buy) which went up some at the beginning of the war, because that is when the arms industry is expected to do well.

 

You think that UK should respond to a major European aggression by not helping the victim, watching from the sidelines as Ukrainians are run over and then pay much more than 1.3 billion in all economic and humanitarian costs of a successful Russian war against a country of 40 million people, not to mention the human cost? Vastly increased military spending after Russian victory which would probably dwarf what will be happening now. How idiotic would that be?  On top of being devoid of any humanity.

Don't make me laugh, you keep tub thumping for the government and the arms industry. You seriously take for granted these arms dealers and politicians wouldn't hope to see the conflict extended to see an increase in revenue and maximise profits?  Well you're more trusting than me. I hope they enjoy the profits.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61151045

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/under-staffed-uk-home-office-refugee-scheme-ukraine/

 

Johnson and Sunak couldn't give a fuck about 90% of the people in this country, if you seriously think he possesses empathy for ordinary Ukrainians then that's your opinion, my opinion differs.

[Strontium]

8 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I don’t need to imagine anything, you absolute fucking crank. I’m witnessing the illegal invasion and murder of a European country by a fascist regime. 

 

I read that in Johnny Rotten's voice.

[SasaS]

42 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Me devoid of humanity? Yet you meekly abide our governments pathetic humanitarian efforts in helping the people enduring the war in Ukraine and the people forced to flee. My opinion is our government couldn't give a fuck about the people of Ukraine and their pathetic actions in humanitarian aid enforces that opinion.

 

40 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Don't make me laugh, you keep tub thumping for the government and the arms industry. You seriously take for granted these arms dealers and politicians wouldn't hope to see the conflict extended to see an increase in revenue and maximise profits?  Well you're more trusting than me. I hope they enjoy the profits.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61151045

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/under-staffed-uk-home-office-refugee-scheme-ukraine/

 

Johnson and Sunak couldn't give a fuck about 90% of the people in this country, if you seriously think he possesses empathy for ordinary Ukrainians then that's your opinion, my opinion differs.

 

I don't care about what weapons manufacturers want and where does the UK government project its empathy.

The best or the only way to end this war is to help the victim of aggression defend itself. Send as many weapons as fast as you can. Everything else would cost you ten times more.

[Section_31]

Meanhwile, Vladimir Putin has reportedly lost his 38th, 39th and 40th colonels in the Ukraine war, adding to Russia’s mounting losses in the conflict.

The death of the 40th, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Blinov, was confirmed on Monday, when a photo emerged of his picture on a grave in Volgograd, southwestern Russia

[Gnasher]

36 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

I don't care about what weapons manufacturers want and where does the UK government project its empathy.

Can't you understand that could be seen as a problem? It's not a total of 1.3 billion on arms to Ukraine, 1.3 billion is just the latest payment. The humanitarian money, suprise suprise is a vastly lower figure. To put that 1.3 billion into context, it's enough to reintroduce the 20 quid benefit increase for a year, a report yesterday said millions of adults in Britain go days without food, where's the humanity for them? Or would they just blow the extra money at arms fairs?

Quote

The best or the only way to end this war is to help the victim of aggression defend itself. Send as many weapons as fast as you can. Everything else would cost you ten times more.

 

The danger here is we get sucked into a war that lasts years, which the influential arms industry in the States/Europe may welcome but at the cost not only to Ukraine but to the rest of the world as the economic situation becomes catastrophic with millions facing starvation though grain and wheat shortages etc. The economic outlook of this war extending is dire, especially for those in the poorest parts of the world.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/imf-slashes-global-growth-outlook-amid-ukraine-war/a-61513313

[SasaS]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Can't you understand that could be seen as a problem? It's not a total of 1.3 billion on arms to Ukraine, 1.3 billion is just the latest payment. The humanitarian money, suprise suprise is a vastly lower figure. To put that 1.3 billion into context, it's enough to reintroduce the 20 quid benefit increase for a year, a report yesterday said millions of adults in Britain go days without food, where's the humanity for them? Or would they just blow the extra money at arms fairs?

 

The danger here is we get sucked into a war that lasts years, which the influential arms industry in the States/Europe may welcome but at the cost not only to Ukraine but to the rest of the world as the economic situation becomes catastrophic with millions facing starvation though grain and wheat shortages etc. The economic outlook of this war extending is dire.

I am not sure you understand fully how government expenditure normally works, if you eliminate your entire defence budget, you would probably be able to reinstate all welfare programmes you want. Or if you close the corporate and individual tax loopholes.

 

If Ukraine falls, the cost in the future government defence spending and humanitarian aid would be much bigger than the current help to Ukraine, that would be the long war you mention UK being sucked into. To avoid this, you need to give Ukraine a chance to win, i.e. make the price of Russia continuing this aggression too high.

 

By not helping Ukraine, as much as fast as you can, you are creating either the conditions for your long war, because Ukraine is probably strong enough to survive in some form and keep fighting, or if it falls, you would have much more than the current 7 million refugees, all of them displaced externally, plus a major political radicalization of Ukrainians (even more right wing and even more ultra nationalist and all this much much more internationalized) and probably additional security destabilization in Russia which in times of Chechen wars lasted for more than 10 years (and brought us Putin) and this time it would be ten times worse because there are that many more Ukrainians willing to take over that many more Moscow theatres.

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I am not sure you understand fully how government expenditure normally works, if you eliminate your entire defence budget, you would probably be able to reinstate all welfare programmes you want. Or if you close the corporate and individual tax loopholes.

 

If Ukraine falls, the cost in the future government defence spending and humanitarian aid would be much bigger than the current help to Ukraine, that would be the long war you mention UK being sucked into. To avoid this, you need to give Ukraine a chance to win, i.e. make the price of Russia continuing this aggression too high.

 

By not helping Ukraine, as much as fast as you can, you are creating either the conditions for your long war, because Ukraine is probably strong enough to survive in some form and keep fighting, or if it falls, you would have much more than the current 7 million refugees, all of them displaced externally, plus a major political radicalization of Ukrainians (even more right wing and even more ultra nationalist and all this much much more internationalized) and probably additional security destabilization in Russia which in times of Chechen wars lasted for more than 10 years (and brought us Putin) and this time it would be ten times worse because there are that many more Ukrainians willing to take over that many more Moscow theatres.

Their is little chance of "Ukraine falling" that was obvious in the first week, you're reverting to hype. 

 

I think you might be the one who needs a brush up on people's economics, few people on benefits buy shares in arms dealerships, few poor people buy shares at all, many can barely afford food. If this war drags on and we enter a worldwide recession we could soon see serious social unrest. We've today had the government's Queen's speech and its offers a big fat zero in financial help for the cost of living crisis.

 

Do you really believe Russia will be pushed out of Eastern Ukraine by military action anytime soon? Do you seriously believe this sixth round of economic sanctions will save Ukrainian lives or/and shorten the war?  

[SasaS]

16 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Their is little chance of "Ukraine falling" that was obvious in the first week, you're reverting to hype. 

 

I think you might be the one who needs a brush up on people's economics, few people on benefits buy shares in arms dealerships, few poor people buy shares at all, many can barely afford food. If this war drags on and we enter a worldwide recession we could soon see serious social unrest. We've today had the government's Queen's speech and its offers a big fat zero in financial help for the cost of living crisis.

 

Do you really believe Russia will be pushed out of Eastern Ukraine by military action anytime soon? Do you seriously believe this sixth round of economic sanctions will save Ukrainian lives or/and shorten the war?  

Judging by this site, most people can easily afford buying speculative crypto currencies for example.

 

But, more importantly, what I don't understand is, how did you come to the conclusion that military aid to Ukraine unnecessarily prolongs the war in which they are the victims of aggression? Do you honestly think there are realistic concessions, Ukrainians could live with, to be offered to Russia and Russia will stop? What are they? After they killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian and their own people and caused hundreds of billions worth of damage?

 

What you are actually saying is, Ukrainian blood is not worth a pound in your pocket. I am trying to explain to you, your lack of basic human empathy for the victim aside, inaction will cost you so much more.