US Election 2020 Thread

[Anubis]

Trump wasn’t interested in military action. Trade wars, maybe, but not military ventures. He’s interested in cutting deals to personally enrich himself, hence the recent revelations about his Chinese interests even though he’s been economically sabre rattling at them for a couple of years. That was a positive because it out the reigns on us being dragged into any misadventures. I’m not so sure that would necessarily hold true for Biden. Just an observation, not a full-scale endorsement of Trump.

[Code]

It was the owner.

 

 

[Harry's Lad]

50 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think it was discussed yesterday. I think the older fellas here (me included), would certainly enjoy improving US British relations. 

To put it bluntly, I'd bang the arse off her.

[Red Phoenix]

56 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Trump wasn’t interested in military action. Trade wars, maybe, but not military ventures. He’s interested in cutting deals to personally enrich himself, hence the recent revelations about his Chinese interests even though he’s been economically sabre rattling at them for a couple of years. That was a positive because it out the reigns on us being dragged into any misadventures. I’m not so sure that would necessarily hold true for Biden. Just an observation, not a full-scale endorsement of Trump.

 

I've often thought that a lot of the US gov's ideas are based on trying to pacify/distract domestically then causing shit abroad. Trump was kind of the opposite in some ways as he enraged so much of the US public but didn't get involved in wars. I think Greenwald pointed out one of the consequences of that here too which could make things more interesting from here on out :

 

 

[Tj hooker]

The looks obviously run in the Harris family this is her sister 

[Section_31]

Reading some of those tweets it seems the Democrats and Biden are already getting grief from the "progressive left" and he hasn't even taken office yet. It's bizarre. 

 

The country elects nutters like Bush and Trump and the Senate seems to be under perpetual Republican control, yet it's the Democrats that seem to come in for the most grief from all sides for being similar to the Republicans or not being as left wing as they depict themselves.

 

Owen Jones (!) did a piece the other day saying the fact they should have wiped the floor with Trump meant they'd ultimately failed. It was quite bizarre. The notion that states like Ohio would ever, under any circumstances, elect a Democrat, let alone a party that chose to 'embrace a radical progressive agenda' is just absolute fantasy land.. 

 

It's a similar situation over here with the way people still go on about Blair and disregard Starmer, this kind of odd idea that if you're trying to walk the line between left and right and keep overcome on board you're some sort of failure and you should ditch all this for social activism. 

 

Most people are centrists in that they don't really give a fuck about politics. They're happy to plod on with their day to day lives as long as they have a job and a roof over their head, ONLY when that's threatened do they drift to the fringes as they fear the shelf collapsing under them. Post credit crunch that's been Trump, Brexit, Sanders and Corbyn. Rest of the time? Nobody cares about Botswana.

[Dougie Do'ins]

3 hours ago, Anubis said:

I think Biden will certainly be better for Americans domestically, and possibly put the reigns on the Tories regarding trade deals. However, Trump’s one positive point was his unwillingness to start any military ventures on foreign soil - the nearest he got was the strike on Qasem Soleimani which was limited - whereas I’d be more weary of Biden in that regard.

He may not have started any any military ventures but I was reading something last week that said the bomb drop count on his watch was better than Obama's. 

[Section_31]

The yanks no longer being world police is an interesting one, because on the face of it it leads to them getting less involved in bombing the shit out of people, but it remains to be seen how their retreat has emboldened others.

 

Weren't loads of Kurds slain when they pulled out of northern Syria? Turkey seem to be getting bolder in the region as a result which has resulted in sabre rattling with Greece and arguably even stoked some of the ill feeling towards France and resulting attacks. 

 

It's a tapestry isn't it, you tug at one thread and the whole picture skewes.

[Brownie]

47 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Reading some of those tweets it seems the Democrats and Biden are already getting grief from the "progressive left" and he hasn't even taken office yet. It's bizarre. 

 

The country elects nutters like Bush and Trump and the Senate seems to be under perpetual Republican control, yet it's the Democrats that seem to come in for the most grief from all sides for being similar to the Republicans or not being as left wing as they depict themselves.

 

Owen Jones (!) did a piece the other day saying the fact they should have wiped the floor with Trump meant they'd ultimately failed. It was quite bizarre. The notion that states like Ohio would ever, under any circumstances, elect a Democrat, let alone a party that chose to 'embrace a radical progressive agenda' is just absolute fantasy land.. 

 

It's a similar situation over here with the way people still go on about Blair and disregard Starmer, this kind of odd idea that if you're trying to walk the line between left and right and keep overcome on board you're some sort of failure and you should ditch all this for social activism. 

 

Most people are centrists in that they don't really give a fuck about politics. They're happy to plod on with their day to day lives as long as they have a job and a roof over their head, ONLY when that's threatened do they drift to the fringes as they fear the shelf collapsing under them. Post credit crunch that's been Trump, Brexit, Sanders and Corbyn. Rest of the time? Nobody cares about Botswana.

It’s understandable though because within hours of the victory being declared you had people rushing to the networks to tell them that this isn’t vindication for the left and that they aren’t responsible for the win.

 

There’s no doubt that the left in general have issues but the Democratic party needs the likes of Sanders and AOC, so Biden has to be careful not to disenfranchise them.

 

After every election win you get factions within parties posturing for position, that’s normal.

[3 Stacks]

54 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Reading some of those tweets it seems the Democrats and Biden are already getting grief from the "progressive left" and he hasn't even taken office yet. It's bizarre. 

 

The country elects nutters like Bush and Trump and the Senate seems to be under perpetual Republican control, yet it's the Democrats that seem to come in for the most grief from all sides for being similar to the Republicans or not being as left wing as they depict themselves.

 

Owen Jones (!) did a piece the other day saying the fact they should have wiped the floor with Trump meant they'd ultimately failed. It was quite bizarre. The notion that states like Ohio would ever, under any circumstances, elect a Democrat, let alone a party that chose to 'embrace a radical progressive agenda' is just absolute fantasy land.. 

 

It's a similar situation over here with the way people still go on about Blair and disregard Starmer, this kind of odd idea that if you're trying to walk the line between left and right and keep overcome on board you're some sort of failure and you should ditch all this for social activism. 

 

Most people are centrists in that they don't really give a fuck about politics. They're happy to plod on with their day to day lives as long as they have a job and a roof over their head, ONLY when that's threatened do they drift to the fringes as they fear the shelf collapsing under them. Post credit crunch that's been Trump, Brexit, Sanders and Corbyn. Rest of the time? Nobody cares about Botswana.

Psycho Republicans think Biden is a commie and most leftists (rightfully so) think Biden isn't really on the left. He's an inoffensive, vanilla, centre-left guy. 

 

The happy people are the anyone but Trump people. And even those people probably know that without Covid, Trump would have easily won. 

[Dougie Do'ins]

3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

The happy people are the anyone but Trump people. And even those people probably know that without Covid, Trump would have easily won. 

No doubt about it. All he had to do was leave it to the experts and talk when it was necessary. Instead, his own bat shit mentality was his downfall.

[Brownie]

I’m not so sure, based on the data that’s available right now.

 

The exit polls had COVID lower down the list of important issues than you would expect. Pretty much half of the people who voted said the US is handling it well!

 

I don’t think there’s any evidence that either side flipped votes. They just increased turnout amongst their own base.

[Section_31]

3 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I’m not so sure, based on the data that’s available right now.

 

The exit polls had COVID lower down the list of important issues than you would expect. Pretty much half of the people who voted said the US is handling it well!

 

I don’t think there’s any evidence that either side flipped votes. They just increased turnout amongst their own base.

I bet some of the pollsters going over the stats don't know where to start. Trump is somewhat lazily dismissed as the face of white supremacy, but he did better with a lot of ethnic groups and religions than he did last time, including muslims, amazingly.

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

I bet some of the pollsters going over the stats don't know where to start. Trump is somewhat lazily dismissed as the face of white supremacy, but he did better with a lot of ethnic groups and religions than he did last time, including muslims, amazingly.

Yeah it’s an absolute clusterfuck at the moment, trying to figure out what story the data tells.

 

As time goes by the picture will become clearer and the Democrats need to be honest about it and address the areas where they need to improve.

 

The one indisputable fact is that the US is as divided as it’s ever been.

 

That’s the real consequence of Trumpism.

[skend04]

12 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I bet some of the pollsters going over the stats don't know where to start. Trump is somewhat lazily dismissed as the face of white supremacy, but he did better with a lot of ethnic groups and religions than he did last time, including muslims, amazingly.

It's not like the Tories here don't have Muslim or black voters inspite of the rampant Islsmaphobia and Windrush. The issue isn't the parties, it's the public. Always has been and always will be. We're a bunch of thick, short attention spanned cunts.

 

I read one column where a Latino voter said they don't take being labelled rapists and murderers en masse to heart. How are you supposed to counter that?

[3 Stacks]

11 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I bet some of the pollsters going over the stats don't know where to start. Trump is somewhat lazily dismissed as the face of white supremacy, but he did better with a lot of ethnic groups and religions than he did last time, including muslims, amazingly.

Most 2nd generation immigrants and ethnic groups just want a platform for individual success and financial security for their family, they don't want to be told they're being held down by the system, which is the image the Democratic party like to paint.

 

Republicans have found a way to speak to the ethnic working class. That's undeniable.

[Anubis]

Amusing to watch Qanonists trying to suggest that Giuliani deliberately held his press conference at a lawn management firm because it’s a few blocks from where QAnon criminal prisoners are being held on remand in prison. As though it was tacit support for them and QAnon as opposed to a fuck up.

[Davelfc]

[sir roger]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

Reading some of those tweets it seems the Democrats and Biden are already getting grief from the "progressive left" and he hasn't even taken office yet. It's bizarre. 

 

The country elects nutters like Bush and Trump and the Senate seems to be under perpetual Republican control, yet it's the Democrats that seem to come in for the most grief from all sides for being similar to the Republicans or not being as left wing as they depict themselves.

 

Owen Jones (!) did a piece the other day saying the fact they should have wiped the floor with Trump meant they'd ultimately failed. It was quite bizarre. The notion that states like Ohio would ever, under any circumstances, elect a Democrat, let alone a party that chose to 'embrace a radical progressive agenda' is just absolute fantasy land.. 

 

It's a similar situation over here with the way people still go on about Blair and disregard Starmer, this kind of odd idea that if you're trying to walk the line between left and right and keep overcome on board you're some sort of failure and you should ditch all this for social activism. 

 

Most people are centrists in that they don't really give a fuck about politics. They're happy to plod on with their day to day lives as long as they have a job and a roof over their head, ONLY when that's threatened do they drift to the fringes as they fear the shelf collapsing under them. Post credit crunch that's been Trump, Brexit, Sanders and Corbyn. Rest of the time? Nobody cares about Botswana.

No acknowledgement that maybe top Democrats suggesting that the more progressive members cost them votes and that Biden's victory had more to do with John Kasichs is a factional move or is it only lefties who are capable of causing internal strife.

[Section_31]

17 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Amusing to watch Qanonists trying to suggest that Giuliani deliberately held his press conference at a lawn management firm because it’s a few blocks from where QAnon criminal prisoners are being held on remand in prison. As though it was tacit support for them and QAnon as opposed to a fuck up.

Giuliani's mental decline is a sight to behold, has anyone ever lost the plot so quickly and publicly? 

[Scooby Dudek]

51 minutes ago, Brownie said:

It’s understandable though because within hours of the victory being declared you had people rushing to the networks to tell them that this isn’t vindication for the left and that they aren’t responsible for the win.

 

There’s no doubt that the left in general have issues but the Democratic party needs the likes of Sanders and AOC, so Biden has to be careful not to disenfranchise them.

 

After every election win you get factions within parties posturing for position, that’s normal.

This is my take on it. I believe it was a very high (relatively speaking) turn out amongst younger voters and the majority of these voted Democrat, the progressives are claiming credit for this. 

 

I noticed an item on Fox news being shown excessively was a Democratic Rep, blaming progressives for the bad results in the house and saying we should never mention words like socialism again, via a "leaked" phone call. Finally saw the same call on CNN this morning. 

 

As I posted yesterday Santorum said the best thing for Biden would be for the Republicans to win the run off in Georgia, so they control the house and Biden doesn't have to do anything "extreme", no one else on the panel disagreed with him, including the Democrats. 

 

Ilhan Omar was on CNN, and I thought she was really good, giving it thank god Trump is gone and the Republicans are giving a narrative the progressives are bad, despite the results. They played the tape from about mentioning socialism, and her reply was obviously as a party we all have different views, which is fine but look at the evidence, which show progressive policies are popular (claiming progressive candidates did better than other Democrats in the house votes), so focus on selling the policies and not attacking each other. 

 

 

 

Also as I said previously, the narrative was;

2016, Trump get 306 electoral college votes, loses popular vote by 3 million, this is a landside and gives him a mandate to govern as he sees fit. 

 

2020, Biden (probably) gets 306 electoral college votes, wins popular vote by 4 million, this is a very close election and he has to stay to the centre to keep the Republicans/centrists on side. 

 

I think some progressives are pushing against this narrative.

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, sir roger said:

No acknowledgement that maybe top Democrats suggesting that the more progressive members cost them votes and that Biden's victory had more to do with John Kasichs is a factional move or is it only lefties who are capable of causing internal strife.

Yeah I think Pelosi has been an arsehole to a few of them, notably the squad, but I don't think the democrats could have done much better than they did under the circumstances, it looks like a very 'ordinary' US election result in terms of where the votes went and which states voted for who. Biden is the standard bearer for the campaign though, people voted for him first and foremost rather than any particular policy decisions I'd imagine, and he's a 'centrist'. The insinuation from some being that somehow he should, could and would have done better had the democrats embraced a progressive agenda. 

[Brownie]

27 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Yeah I think Pelosi has been an arsehole to a few of them, notably the squad, but I don't think the democrats could have done much better than they did under the circumstances, it looks like a very 'ordinary' US election result in terms of where the votes went and which states voted for who. Biden is the standard bearer for the campaign though, people voted for him first and foremost rather than any particular policy decisions I'd imagine, and he's a 'centrist'. The insinuation from some being that somehow he should, could and would have done better had the democrats embraced a progressive agenda. 

What this goes to show is that the Democrats, much like labour, are a number of parties within a party, with different ideas and they will posture for position to push forward their agenda. That is completely normal and expected.

 

It's very interesting though that despite this division, they were able to win a general election.

 

We keep hearing over here that a divided party cannot win a general election. Well it depends what you mean by "divided". If that division results in them working against each other during an election then of course you can't win.

 

If the party unites behind the common 'enemy' for the purpose of winning the election, they can win. And then they can have their in-party debate and posturing from a position of strength. As opposed to actively working against their own party to undermine them.

 

Biden won the candidacy and the likes of "the squad" worked their arses off to get him elected.

 

Lessons to be learned but I doubt they will be.

[Scooby Dudek]

18 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Yeah I think Pelosi has been an arsehole to a few of them, notably the squad, but I don't think the democrats could have done much better than they did under the circumstances, it looks like a very 'ordinary' US election result in terms of where the votes went and which states voted for who. Biden is the standard bearer for the campaign though, people voted for him first and foremost rather than any particular policy decisions I'd imagine, and he's a 'centrist'. The insinuation from some being that somehow he should, could and would have done better had the democrats embraced a progressive agenda. 

 

The insinuation from some is that the Democrats would have done worse had they embraced a progressive agenda. 

The truth is we will never know, as that election didn't take place.

However seeing as the progressives are members of the Democratic party (yes I know Bernie isn't) and worked for a Biden victory, they should quite rightfully expect a seat at the table of a Democratic President.

 

A Fox exit poll showed 70% of the voters were happy for a government run health care system. Favoured by progressives yet never offered this option by either party.

 

Florida voted for an increase to the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour. Favoured by progressives yet never offered this option by either party. Florida, a so called swing state, voted heavily for Republicans, who are totally opposed to the minimum wage increase. 

 

I know these are anecdotal, but you can understand why progressives believe they would have performed better had their policies been put forward. Again we will never know, as it didn't happen.

 

 

[Scooby Dudek]

5 minutes ago, Brownie said:

What this goes to show is that the Democrats, much like labour, are a number of parties within a party, with different ideas and they will posture position to push forward their agenda. That is completely normal and expected.

 

It's very interesting though that despite this division, they were able to win a general election.

 

We keep hearing over here that a divided party cannot win a general election. Well it depends what you mean by "divided". If that division results in them working against each other during an election then of course you can't win.

 

If the party unites behind the common 'enemy' for the purpose of winning the election, they can win. And then they can have their in-party debate and posturing from a position of strength. As opposed to actively working against their own party to undermine them.

 

Biden won the candidacy and the likes of "the squad" worked their arses off to get him elected.

 

Lessons to be learned but I doubt they will be.

Great post, it is what I was trying to say above, but much better written.