Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[mattyq]

10 out of 10 for being a patronising arse.

It was meant to be patronising

If you want to regurgitate shite then you have to expect that you're going to be patronised and gently ridiculed

Surely that's obvious

See what I did there?

[Strontium]

When you start using the "We will be safe from terrorists if voting out" line you are borderline insane.

I can't even recall a terrorist act in this country that wasn't perpetrated by someone from these islands. And that's going back to Guy Fawkes. If anything, closing the borders will keep all the terrorists in!

[thechap]

I'll stop wasting your time with my childishness then eh.

 

Night.

 

???

[thechap]

I can't even recall a terrorist act in this country that wasn't perpetrated by someone from these islands. And that's going back to Guy Fawkes. If anything, closing the borders will keep all the terrorists in!

 

Just to be clear - by "these islands" you do include the Republic of Ireland?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Except if they were an immigrant then it is hugely relevant.

 

You seem to have a very nonchalant attitude towards the issue of international terrorism.  There are plenty of people in Paris who would disagree with you.

Of the 9 identified attackers in Paris, 5 were French.

 

More pertinently, all the attackers in London in July 2005 were British.

 

Immigration and terrorism are two separate issues; conflating them doesn't advance the discussion of either.

[Strontium]

Just to be clear - by "these islands" you do include the Republic of Ireland?

Correct. The entirety of the British Isles.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There is so much wrong with this post that I'd have to spend too long a time picking it apart.  

Mainly the bit about those so-called "speedbumps".  If anything, they slow you down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I read too much Viz.)

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just to be clear - by "these islands" you do include the Republic of Ireland?

Speaking of which...

 

http://www.newstalk.com/Lord-Nigel-Lawson-hopes-Irish-Republic-realises-its-mistake-and-rejoins-UK-following-Brexit

 

A former government minister under Thatcher’s government, Lord Nigel Lawson has said that the Republic of Ireland could ask to once again join the United Kingdom while speaking at a debate on the forthcoming referendum on whether or not the UK should remain in the European Union.

Lawson, father of celebrity cook Nigella Lawson and chairman of the Vote Leave campaign group, also said “it would be great” if the Irish free state realised it had “made a mistake” in getting independence from Britain in 1922.

The 83-year-old statesman, who served as the Chancellor of the Exchequer during Margaret Thatcher’s tenure as the UK’s Prime Minister, made his off-the-cuff remarks while answering a question of what a British exit from the EU would mean for the border between the two distinct nations on the island of Ireland.

Replying, Lawson said that the United Kingdom has a “special relationship with the Irish Republic, for obvious historical reasons, but also reasons of sentiment.”

Lawson then added: “I would be very happy f the Republic of Ireland – I don’t think it’s going to happen – were to say we made a mistake in getting independence in 1922, and come back within the United Kingdom. That would be great.”

[thechap]

Of the 9 identified attackers in Paris, 5 were French.

 

More pertinently, all the attackers in London in July 2005 were British.

 

Immigration and terrorism are two separate issues; conflating them doesn't advance the discussion of either.

 

They are two separate issues that cross over.  To say imply that they are entirely separate is naive and dangerous.

 

If you think that an open-door immigration policy doesn't increase the likelihood of a terrorist coming this country to commit terrorist acts or to incite others to do so or to preach extreme views and radicalise others then by definition you are wrong.

[thechap]

Speaking of which...

 

http://www.newstalk.com/Lord-Nigel-Lawson-hopes-Irish-Republic-realises-its-mistake-and-rejoins-UK-following-Brexit

 

A former government minister under Thatcher’s government, Lord Nigel Lawson has said that the Republic of Ireland could ask to once again join the United Kingdom while speaking at a debate on the forthcoming referendum on whether or not the UK should remain in the European Union.

Lawson, father of celebrity cook Nigella Lawson and chairman of the Vote Leave campaign group, also said “it would be great” if the Irish free state realised it had “made a mistake” in getting independence from Britain in 1922.

The 83-year-old statesman, who served as the Chancellor of the Exchequer during Margaret Thatcher’s tenure as the UK’s Prime Minister, made his off-the-cuff remarks while answering a question of what a British exit from the EU would mean for the border between the two distinct nations on the island of Ireland.

Replying, Lawson said that the United Kingdom has a “special relationship with the Irish Republic, for obvious historical reasons, but also reasons of sentiment.”

Lawson then added: “I would be very happy f the Republic of Ireland – I don’t think it’s going to happen – were to say we made a mistake in getting independence in 1922, and come back within the United Kingdom. That would be great.”

 

You don't report that it was a joke he made.  Granted not a particularly funny one and likely a bit insulting to the Irish.  But it was a joke.

[thechap]

Correct. The entirety of the British Isles.

 

Can you think of any or of any extreme views that might have been encouraged or incited by someone not from these islands?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Can you think of any or of any extreme views that might have been encouraged or incited by someone not from these islands?

Are our border guards going to keep ideas out?

[Hades]

Typical Kippers, going after the symptoms instead of the problem. Driving down of wages by importing workers you didn't have to feed or educate is a symptom of short-sighted profit-oriented capitalism. Stopping immigration is never going to work, like putting a bandaid on an axe wound. 

[skend04]

They are two separate issues that cross over. To say imply that they are entirely separate is naive and dangerous.

 

If you think that an open-door immigration policy doesn't increase the likelihood of a terrorist coming this country to commit terrorist acts or to incite others to do so or to preach extreme views and radicalise others then by definition you are wrong.

Okay so tell us how many times the EU freedom of movement policy has led to a terrorist act in the UK? You seem to be fully behind IDS on this one so it shouldn't be hard to give us facts and figures.

[stringvest]

Speaking of which...

 

http://www.newstalk.com/Lord-Nigel-Lawson-hopes-Irish-Republic-realises-its-mistake-and-rejoins-UK-following-Brexit

 

A former government minister under Thatcher’s government, Lord Nigel Lawson has said that the Republic of Ireland could ask to once again join the United Kingdom while speaking at a debate on the forthcoming referendum on whether or not the UK should remain in the European Union.

Lawson, father of celebrity cook Nigella Lawson and chairman of the Vote Leave campaign group, also said “it would be great” if the Irish free state realised it had “made a mistake” in getting independence from Britain in 1922.

The 83-year-old statesman, who served as the Chancellor of the Exchequer during Margaret Thatcher’s tenure as the UK’s Prime Minister, made his off-the-cuff remarks while answering a question of what a British exit from the EU would mean for the border between the two distinct nations on the island of Ireland.

Replying, Lawson said that the United Kingdom has a “special relationship with the Irish Republic, for obvious historical reasons, but also reasons of sentiment.”

Lawson then added: “I would be very happy f the Republic of Ireland – I don’t think it’s going to happen – were to say we made a mistake in getting independence in 1922, and come back within the United Kingdom. That would be great.”

 

I'm relieved to see there's no age limit to trolling.

[stringvest]

Typical Kippers, going after the symptoms instead of the problem. Driving down of wages by importing workers you didn't have to feed or educate is a symptom of short-sighted profit-oriented capitalism. Stopping immigration is never going to work, like putting a bandaid on an axe wound. 

 

sexist

[njackets]

Okay, to say there will be mass repatriations is simply scaremongering. All parties who argue for exit have said that no-one who is living here now who came from an EU country will be told to leave. That is only fair, reasonable, decent and human. Exactly the same would apply to UK nationals living elsewhere in the EU. Yes, some would be migrants to the UK would be blocked from coming here but that is the whole point of having control of your borders. You decide who can come in. If they would be good for the country then they get let in. If they won't be then they don't. Why is that a bad policy?

 

Your point about workers' rights I take to a certain extent because I fully wholeheartedly support workers' rights. I also agree the tories would likely want to see a lot of them removed because some tories are cunts. If you see that happening then vote Labour who will undoubtedly restore them (I presume that's what most people on this forum believe because it's only ever the tories who are accused of this)

 

I do not know how much the UK would need to pay to access the single market. I very much doubt it would be anywhere near to the figure you imply (Euro 357.7m x 12). We are a powerful and rich country who import more from the EU than we export to them. They NEED our trade. I can just hear all those businesses in EUland who depend on us to buy their products and the millions of their workers saying "Go on EU, fuck over the UK for leaving. Who gives a shit if it means they don't buy from us any more and we lose our jobs." Not going to happen.

 

As for your worry about it being a bureaucratic nightmare - well, diddums. We would survive the couple of years of hard talk and negotiation that would follow the 'No' vote. And no-one but no-one is suggesting cutting off economic ties and those that suggest we would be doing so are lying bastards.

 

And how can we ignore the 'renegotiation'? According to Dave it is a game changer and reforms the EU. His successful securing of this deal is why he wants us to vote for it. How can we ignore it - it is his first argument for us to stay.

 

 

 

 

 

See my point above about how no-one will be forced to leave their homes wherever they have chosen to make them. Our pensioners abroad still cost us money, by the way. Who do you think pays their pensions? It is not the government of where they are living - it is the UK government.

 

Clear the spare room? Piss poor comment to make about my argument and frankly beneath you. How many kids would you like to put in this spare room? How many will be in there before they start fighting and it gets unhealthy?

 

 

 

 

Yup, that's almost certainly true. It's however definitely true that the rapists and terrorists can walk in unchecked. How many they are in number is pretty irrelevant if your family happen to be walking past one when he pulls out his assault rifle.

Brilliant post!

[VladimirIlyich]

This stuff about driving down wages when immigrants come to Britain has got fuck all to being in the EU and is all about pure greed,little protection of British workers rights and just being unconcerned with anything other than bottom line. Imagine if the companies had to pay everybody,immigrants included,the same wages.

Lets not use the old 'race to the bottom' argument again.

How do the figures stack up on all those rapists and murderers coming into the country? I only ask as we have a thriving trade in it already with British citizens.

[njackets]

When you start using the "We will be safe from terrorists if voting out" line you are borderline insane.

Who's said that? Thats obviously bollocks, it can't be denied by allowing them less freedom of movment it'd make us safer though.

[Barrington Womble]

Who's said that? Thats obviously bollocks, it can't be denied by allowing them less freedom of movment it'd make us safer though.

allowing who less freedom of movement? the terrorists? do they put occupation "terrorist" on their passport? 

[cloggypop]

@UKIP_Voter: This disgusting slur on Tony Blackburn costing him his job is just a convenient diversion from the up and coming EU referendum

#Brexit

[Dave D]

This stuff about driving down wages when immigrants come to Britain has got fuck all to being in the EU and is all about pure greed,little protection of British workers rights and just being unconcerned with anything other than bottom line. Imagine if the companies had to pay everybody,immigrants included,the same wages.

Lets not use the old 'race to the bottom' argument again.

How do the figures stack up on all those rapists and murderers coming into the country? I only ask as we have a thriving trade in it already with British citizens.

Its such a multi layered debate.

 

I guess it depends on peoples personal experience or how impressionable they are with media fed views.

 

I use multiple employment agencies to provide cover for staffing needs throughout the year- almost entirely foreign migrants are supplied  I have no issue with this, as I would equally have no issue with UK workers being supplied.

 

Some of the views on here you would conclude that ALL migrants are super hard working and contribute hugely to the economy- my experience is many are not, not by a long shot. Many are just going through the motions, many cant speak English at all, are living in flats with 8 or 9 other guys and have no interest in integration or progression. They are here, its enough. That in itself is no crime, the concern I have is the sheer number of migrants are putting huge strain on our services and infrastructure, changing the face of the very country in a physical way.

 

Some people have no problem if the UK build new towns and cities, covers all the greenbelt in housing and roads to accomodate this as it will bring employment and money in the very building itself. Others would simply prefer this wasnt the case, not from an employment angle, or economy angle, just that they arent as enamoured with a multi cultural society as others. No crime in that either.       

 

I have one (polish migrant) lad working for me who, no matter what the issue is healthwise, he will go to A+E. Ive tried to explain to him what the A+E department is there for- he doesnt care, He goes there as he will be seen that day. Regardless of the issue- its not a lack of understanding. He knows full well he could go through the GP route but chooses not too. Its such a unique concept to him that he see's it as crazy to not take his approach. Obviously this is a single example, but people often trot out we need to better "educate and guide" migrants in how to integrate or understand the systems, my experience is that a fair few have no interest in this whatsoever and see health care and benefits as something be exploited to the absolute maximum.

 

Flip it again, Im sure there many migrants who do the opposite to the above, so the pros and cons are there before us. We read and hear the same arguments every day on the radio, TV, parliament and on here if we choose.

 

Some people appear to have an absolute view and have no interest at all in anything that slightly disagrees with their view. Everything I have written here could be torn to shreds, I accept that, doenst mean Im wrong. Doesnt mean Im right. 

 

You just need to decide for yourself and not feel brow beaten or vilified in either choice you make.

 

      

 

        

 

.

[M_B]

will we be safe from terrorism?

will our wages increase?

will house prices become cheaper?

will the NHS improve?

will trade be cheaper with the EU?

will we have any greater influence over trade with the EU?

will travel to the EU be cheaper?

will I be able to buy property in the EU?

will our employment laws strengthen in favour of workers?

will areas such as Liverpool continue to receive European development grants?

will our military and police forces be better off?

will our industry improve?

will our environment be cleaner?

 

I suspect the answer to most of these will be no, but I could be wrong so I am willing to listen and I'm going to try to understand both sides of the argument before the referendum. Initially though, I'd like to understand how leaving the EU would benefit me directly, cause I am selfish.

[magicrat]

I just want the thing over with ,  I intended to vote stay from the outset for lots of sensible reasons about the risks but if for nothing else other than I couldn't countenance siding with that cunt Farage , Johnson and all the other xenophobic opportunistic pricks on the right of the Tory party that want to gamble with peoples future when it won't be their privileged arses on the line if the economy tanks  as a result 

[Stu Monty]

The only way you would conclude that "some people" on here think that all immigrants are super hard working would be if you can't read or comprehend properly.