Bob Crow has passed away

[Torvald Utne]

I'm not advocating them losing their jobs I just think they're way overpaid, a salary range of £44k-£60k is ridiculous, you're making out like they're some working class heroes, that is corporate banking relationship manager ranges, next you'll be saying bankers should be striking to get bigger bonuses.

[Jairzinho]

If your feeling of being inconvenienced is overriding how much you care about your fellow man then you're probably a fucking cunt.

[Jairzinho]

I'm not advocating them losing their jobs I just think they're way overpaid, a salary range of £44k-£60k is ridiculous, you're making out like they're some working class heroes, that is corporate banking relationship manager ranges, next you'll be saying bankers should be striking to get bigger bonuses.

 

 

You're wumming, right? Please say you're wumming.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Who decides that 44 to 60k is ridiculous for a train driver. I find the idea of someone working for £6.80 an hour ridiculous or companies can loan money out with 5000 percent apr or the average uk house price is 250 grand.

 

These drivers applied for those jobs and were luckily enough to be the ones who got them. They earned their position sure they are highly paid but tonnes of people are highly paid and much more are underpaid. There wages seem high because they have actually fought for their rise with inflation every single year, Christ if anything it feels like its the rest of us working class who let the side down. I don't think we've got a clue whats reasonable anymore its a bat shit crazy world.

 

If the drivers were constantly causing problems, where doing their jobs poorly and being a hindrance I'd say fuck them.

[Jairzinho]

They aren't highly paid. The vast majority of people are underpaid, because a tiny minority of people are massively overpaid. Grouping them in with bankers is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

[Rico1304]

Yes but energy bills have gone up for millions of people who haven't had payrises. The customers pay the wages of those who work for those companies. The energy companies don't give a fuck they only answer to their shareholders. Isn't this just the nature of things.

We got 1.5% last year and nothing year before. So by your logic if energy companies profits all went to workers it'd be ok?

[Torvald Utne]

They aren't highly paid. The vast majority of people are underpaid, because a tiny minority of people are massively overpaid. Grouping them in with bankers is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

 

Well they do get paid more than your average banker so yes, probably shouldn't be grouping them together.

[Stickman]

The fact the right and the right wing media hated him showed to me he was doing a great job.....they only despise people who stand up to them.

[dickie mint]

The fact the right and the right wing media hated him showed to me he was doing a great job.....they only despise people who stand up to them.

Spot on.

[Strontium]

They aren't highly paid. The vast majority of people are underpaid, because a tiny minority of people are massively overpaid. Grouping them in with bankers is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

Wait, are you really saying that the reason most people are "underpaid" is because a tiny minority are "overpaid"?

 

Can we see some mathematics on that, please?

 

Here's some info on income distribution:

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-statistics/table2-4.pdf

 

As we can see, a UK median salary is £22,200 this year (predicted). So 50% of earners earn more than this, and 50% less.

 

A driver's entry level salary is rising to £50k either this year or next. Not only does this mean they're earning more than twice the median, it means they're placed firmly in the top quartile of earners. In fact, they're just outside the top 10% of earners.

 

If you're earning more than 90% of people in the country, does this not qualify you as "highly paid"?

 

Would you not agree that, no matter how you cut the cake, it is it totally inconceivable for everyone in the country to earn this much money, or anything like it?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

 

If you're earning more than 90% of people in the country, does this not qualify you as "highly paid"?

 

 

Nope.

[Jairzinho]

London's median salary will be much higher than the UK's, as you're well aware. The point, again as you're well aware, is that turning on some people living in London on 45k per year, and comparing them to bankers (they weren't referring to fucking cashiers) is absurd. Whilst we have a country run for the benefit of billionaires to the point that people in work are using food banks forgive me for not focussing my anger at tube staff.

[Strontium]

The fact the right and the right wing media hated him showed to me he was doing a great job.....they only despise people who stand up to them.

In that case we can add Gary Glitter, Nick Clegg and Ian Huntley to your list of "people doing a great job".

 

Or on the other hand, you can stop using the "enemy of my enemy is my friend", the logic of a child.

 

 

 

Nope.

How else would you describe high pay except in relative terms?

 

 

 

London's median salary will be much higher than the UK's, as you're well aware. The point, again as you're well aware, is that turning on some people living in London on 45k per year, and comparing them to bankers (they weren't referring to fucking cashiers) is absurd. Whilst we have a country run for the benefit of billionaires to the point that people in work are using food banks forgive me for not focussing my anger at tube staff.

I'm not really interested in any of that, I was challenging your assertion that "[t]he vast majority of people are underpaid, because a tiny minority of people are massively overpaid".

 

Because it was patently wrong.

[Anubis]

Not like you to skew things, SD. Interesting Guardian article which ties in with what we're seeing here.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2010/oct/16/income-45000-pounds-does-not-go-far

[Torvald Utne]

That article is complete garbage, the mean is completely irrelevant, take a sample of 100 people, 99 earning £10k and one (the 1% if you like) earning £1m... would it be fair to say the average salary is £20k?

[Stu Monty]

Wait, are you really saying that the reason most people are "underpaid" is because a tiny minority are "overpaid"?

 

Can we see some mathematics on that, please?

 

Here's some info on income distribution:

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-statistics/table2-4.pdf

 

As we can see, a UK median salary is £22,200 this year (predicted). So 50% of earners earn more than this, and 50% less.

 

A driver's entry level salary is rising to £50k either this year or next. Not only does this mean they're earning more than twice the median, it means they're placed firmly in the top quartile of earners. In fact, they're just outside the top 10% of earners.

 

If you're earning more than 90% of people in the country, does this not qualify you as "highly paid"?

 

Would you not agree that, no matter how you cut the cake, it is it totally inconceivable for everyone in the country to earn this much money, or anything like it?

 

Why did you choose the median and not the average?

 

I know why I think you picked it but I thought I'd let you explain why.

 

The national average salary is, as far as I'm aware, about £27k.  Then you'd have a London enhancement.

 

In a world when the bottom 50% have fuck all in terms of wealth compared to the top 1% be very wary of people using median figures to justify fairness.

[Stu Monty]

I may also state that it might be a more healthy situation for half the population to be earning £50k than having everyone earning £25k.

 

The market doesn't like it but having one person in a household free to not work would probably be better than both working, for the family and for society in general.

 

In reality if the country could be run by 1m people, capital would happily do that and have everyone else scraping around in the dirt.  They'd not be having time to themselves due to wonderful advances, they'd be irrelevant, broke and fucked.

[Strontium]

Why did you choose the median and not the average?

 

I know why I think you picked it but I thought I'd let you explain why.

Because the general consensus is that it's a better indicator.

 

This refers to household income, but the implications are the same:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

 

The median income is considered by many statisticians to be a better indicator than the average household income as it is not dramatically affected by unusually high or low values.

 

The national average salary is, as far as I'm aware, about £27k.  Then you'd have a London enhancement.

 

In a world when the bottom 50% have fuck all in terms of wealth compared to the top 1% be very wary of people using median figures to justify fairness.

It wasn't really about what's fair and what isn't. I was just challenging the idea that tube drivers aren't in the upper echelons of earners.

 

Also I think the idea that lots of people earn buttons because Philip Green earns billions is misguided.

[Stickman]

In that case we can add Gary Glitter, Nick Clegg and Ian Huntley to your list of "people doing a great job".Or on the other hand, you can stop using the "enemy of my enemy is my friend", the logic of a child.

Bit out of order to use them as examples of people doing a great job, when has Nick Clegg ever done that or ever stood up for anything?

I guess it says more about him when you include him in with those two.

[lifetime fan]

Because the general consensus is that it's a better indicator.

 

This refers to household income, but the implications are the same:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

 

The median income is considered by many statisticians to be a better indicator than the average household income as it is not dramatically affected by unusually high or low values.

 

 

It wasn't really about what's fair and what isn't. I was just challenging the idea that tube drivers aren't in the upper echelons of earners.

 

Also I think the idea that lots of people earn buttons because Philip Green earns billions is misguided.

Philip Green earns billions because he pays his staff buttons.

 

And doesn't pay tax.

[Section_31]

It's not really about salary distribution it's about wealth distribution, and that's much more difficult to quanitify. You're entering into the world of share portfolios, corportar profits, tax avoidance, land grabs, unfair distribution of land ownership, debts, you name it. It's not simply a case of a few people being on good money, it's about big business on both sides of the pond having politics of every party and the media in its pocket, and getting pretty much everything its own way at every turn.

[Rico1304]

My last word on this, I assume he's made a will so I can't wait to see some of you justify how a millionaire had a council house.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

My last word on this, I assume he's made a will so I can't wait to see some of you justify how a millionaire had a council house.

We've told you before. We weren't bothered as he paid full rent and full council tax.

 

And how do you know he was a millionaire?

[Rico1304]

I don't know yet, but all wills are public record so all his assets will be listed. Millionaire next to pauper.

[Stu Monty]

My last word on this, I assume he's made a will so I can't wait to see some of you justify how a millionaire had a council house.

 

You can't wait so much that you won't either go back and read what people have already said to you or even try to remember what you've been told?

 

Wow. That's some weird impatience.

 

As has been pointed out "Crow too good for council houses!" would be just as good a stick to beat him with.