Someone's having a real laugh - gollum?

[Killjoy]

http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/9159574/John-Nicholson

There Is No Recovery From This Position

Once you are perceived to be a loser, there is no way back. Even Tim Sherwood would be a better Manchester United manager than David Moyes, says Johnny...

It took no special football insight to guess that David Moyes would be a poor manager for Manchester United. It was pretty obvious. One of the most important reasons was the fact that Moyes was taking over a team who were all multiple trophy winners and he hadn't ever won anything.

While other virtues might be important, being seen to be a winner is imperative for a club that always wins things because footballers are often disturbingly simple creatures. They look at a manager like Jose Mourinho and they see a bloke who has taken sides to silverware. So when things don't go perfectly, they can trust him to find a solution to it. But when their supposed leader has never done this, they will naturally doubt his ability to do so, especially when you've been a manager for over a decade and have a track record of non-success. Just claiming you've done okay in the past without much money doesn't help. It is irrelevant at Old Trafford.

In an era so dominated by statistical analysis, hot spots, percentages and scrutiny, it seems as if actually being inspired by your manager should be much less important than almost anything else. You can play or you can't. You can pass the ball accurately most of the time or you can't. Surely, if your manager has a face like a broken biscuit and wears an expression that suggests he has seen the bowels of hell, that shouldn't make an international footballer play a lot worse. But Moyes is proving this is very much the case.

In many ways we don't want this to be true. We'd rather that intellect, work ethic and football knowledge should be enough. We hate to think that just being inspiring by your history, words and even your body language can be enough to motivate a team of very good footballers but again, Moyes is showing that to some degree it must be.

There is no way the side that just won a league should drop so much in quality so quickly. The only major variable is the manager so it's safe to say quite objectively that whatever Moyes and his staff are doing, is wrong. And once this principle gets established it's very hard to break that perception for us watching, but even more so for the players.

Because of this he is now damned every which way. His furious goal celebrations look like those of a lower league manager scoring against United, yet when he tries to be more cool and removed, it looks like he doesn't care. In other words, once you're a loser, everything you do or don't do are the actions of a loser; the post-match interviews always exercises in post-traumatic stress disorder. There is no recovery from this position.

Those of us who dislike Harry Redknapp hate to think that actually, being a matey sort with the gift of the gab might be a huge asset, but watching Spurs under Redknapp-lite Tim Sherwood only encourages the view that it is. While Sherwood's short tenure has seen him deploy some different tactics to his more cerebral predecessor, it is a disturbing but inescapable thought that perhaps he is a better communicator. To us he may appear to look like a man who sleeps in a skip and sound like a blagger in an episode of The Sweeney, but to the players maybe he's a geezer they can believe in and this is enough at Spurs. Would Sherwood be a better manager of Manchester United just because of this? Almost certainly. We rightly laugh at the British managerial cliché of 'putting an arm around' a player being vaunted as some sort of talent, we don't want to think it might be in any way important, but maybe it actually is in establishing the manager as a man who is on your side, especially in lieu of a successful track record.

If you don't have the Mourinho-style laden trophy cabinet, you have to have something else. That is the essence of good management and it won't be the same thing for every side. Getting a small, unsuccessful club to play better may well be more about tactics, training and such, but to get a team of proven winners to maintain their form is quite another thing. So when you look at your manager and he looks physically withered by the pressure, it is rarely going to end well. When the man himself seems to ascribe their poor results to mere bad luck, he risks looking to us - and more importantly to the players - as a man who is at the mercy of events and not in control of them and you simply cannot lead any organisation from that position.

Inspiration and confidence are nebulous, constantly shifting things whereas tactics, players and fitness are actual, measurable things. Some managers seem good at one side of the job but less so at the other. However, in a unique storm of awfulness, it would seem Moyes is getting both the existential and the material aspects of managing United wrong and for those who think in time he will get it right, there is a fundamental paradox that cannot be overcome: The players will not believe in him until he is a winner but he will never be a winner because the players will not believe in him until he is a winner. That's why it's over. Or it should be.

[Scooby Dudek]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=iHdS29vJI8c

[Ezekiel 25:17]

If we draw we'll still be ahead unless they win by an 18 goal margin. Could happen. Everton go 4-0 up in first ten minutes. Other team make an early panic treble substitution. Centre back headbutts goalkeeper both go off concust. Outfield player goes in nets and Everton romp home 18-0.

 

 

 

Everton, y'say ????

[Hand Shandy]

That gif is quite probably Mick McCarthy's greatest achievement in the game of football...

[Anubis]

The players will not believe in him until he is a winner but he will never be a winner because the players will not believe in him until he is a winner.

 

 

Don't the players know that you don't have to actually win anything to be a winner?

[Sut]

What are the chances of him resigning?

[The Golden Eel]

What are the chances of him resigning?

Not very high I'd say... Because people around him will be telling him he'll turn it around, etc.  I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to resign though

[PestiRed]

Over 5 years of his contract left, likely to be around £25m to be given up by resigning. Plus he's not likely to be getting another income in the near future

[Guest davelfc]

I'm sure I read somewhere that there are performance condition clauses in that contract. Be funny if there are not.

[kemskem]

Some of the latest from MMC

 

 

1. MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  23h

   MOYES IS LIKE A ROBOT WE WAS UNLUCKY WE DESERVED MORE WE WAS UNLUCKY WE DESERVED MORE WE WAS UNLUCKY WE DESERVED MORE I AM A DARLEK

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2.  

   MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  23h

   TERN UP YER SPEAKERS AN SING ALONG TO MOYESEYS TOO SHITE TO MENTION http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrUB0g8Vjgg&feature=kp … WERE TALKIN ABAR MOYESEY MOYESEY

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3.  

   MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  23h

   MOYESEYS TOO SHITE TO MENTION OH MOYESEY MOYESEY MOYESEY MOYESEY WERE TALKIN ABAR MOYESEY MOYESEY WERE TALKIN ABAR MOYESEY MOYESEY HAHAHAHAH

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4.  

   MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  23h

   BE BOSS IF MOYES CAME OUT TO DO HIS INTERVIEW WI NO CLOTHES ON JUST HIS SOCKS AN COVERED IN BROWN SAUCE

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5.  

   MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  23h

   JUST SEEN MICK HUCKNALL TAKIN DAVID MOYES BACK TO ARGOS

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6.  

   MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  23h

   ARR AY IVE SHIT ME KEKS

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7.  

   MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  23h

   HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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8.  

   MY_MUMS_COLA ‏@MY_MUMS_COLA  Feb 9

   WELL DONE ON YER WERLD CUP WIN WHENS THE PARADE @MANUTD

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[Einch]

I'm dreading each game for them now. He is so unconditionally out of his depth that he is going to get sacked soon. Fucking idiot.

[jamespp]

He'd be an idiot to resign, not just for financial reasons but surely he's never going to an opportunity like this again? He'll get the Villa job if he's lucky or maybe back to Everton when Martinez gets sacked

[Unrighteous]

That gif is quite probably Mick McCarthy's greatest achievement in the game of football...

 

Probably? You mean Definitely, right?

[Hand Shandy]

Well he did alright with Ireland at a World Cup, won some pots with Celtic and really fucked Roy Keane off, so there were a few other achievements.

 

However, that gif is unadulterated genius...

[alles ist gut]

He'll get the Villa job if he's lucky or maybe back to Everton when Martinez gets sacked.

I'd say Martinez is more likely to get poached than sacked, even before considering that BGB can't afford to sack a manager.

[ZonkoVille77]

The west ham job would suit him perfectly

[PestiRed]

"Steve Sidwell may like to offer Manchester United's midfield finishing classes. The Fulham captain's first-half goal in the 2-2 draw at Old Trafford was Sidwell's sixth in the league which is double the total returned by United's starting quartet of Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Ashley Young and Juan Mata.

 

For a journeyman midfielder single-handedly to outscore the champions' engine room two to one is the latest damning statistic in this season of ever deepening woe for United and their manager, David Moyes.

 

Until Carrick gave United a 2-1 lead on Sunday, the 32-year-old had yet to register in the campaign. Mata, who managed 20 goals in all competitions last season, has zero in three league games since joining and did not score for Chelsea in the league either, the same number as Fletcher (who has missed most of the season through illness), while Young has two."

 

 

Guardian having a nice dig there

[MLB]

Let's hope that he can rely on the unconditional support of Fergie and the board. He needs time to turn things around and I think he should be given that time.

[Strontium]

I think he should be given until the end of time to turn things around.

[Section_31]

He's like the computer virus from Independence Day.

[Iceman]

He is football aids.

[El Rojo]

Let's hope that he can rely on the unconditional support of Fergie and the board. He needs time to turn things around and I think he should be given that time.

 

Yep. Surely we can put petty sporting rivalries aside and hope that a decent football man like David Moyes is given the years he needs to make an impact?

[Reckoner]

I think he should be given until the end of time to turn things around.

And then what?

[Jhinge Machha]

[Pureblood]

I'm interested to see what will happen next.  It seems that crossing the ball 81 times isn't enough to beat the league's worst team.  Will he persist with this tactic, or will it be changed?  If it is changed, whose decision was it - his, the players, Fergie's?  If they abandon his prehistoric tactics and start winning, what's the point in having him there?  

 

This situation is a real slow burner but it could ignite soon.  Maybe a thumping by Arsenal will be the final straw.