LFC approach Wigan for martinez

[Glen C]

And so it begins...

 

People already accepting Martinez... fucking sigh.

 

I don't think ANYONE actually wants him, but if he comes what more can we do? We just have to hope that he has the potential to grow and learn from his mistakes and take us forward. I think if he does come it will be ANOTHER transitional year and we'll be knocked out of the europa cup early due to his inexperience. Just hope that he learns from it and the following year does better. Don't have much hope to be honest.

[MLB]

Sacking Kenny for not achieving CL football and then appointing Roberto Martinez. The mind boggles.

 

Still, it's not done yet.

[Mr Nando]

I don't think ANYONE actually wants him, but if he comes what more can we do? We just have to hope that he has the potential to grow and learn from his mistakes and take us forward. I think if he does come it will be ANOTHER transitional year and we'll be knocked out of the europa cup early due to his inexperience. Just hope that he learns from it and the following year does better. Don't have much hope to be honest.

 

But if its another transitional year, why sack Kenny?

 

The only way I wanted Kenny to go was if there was a decent replacement.

 

If we are getting a relegation fodder candidate who then does shit, why would FSG keep faith with him?

 

So we could have another managerial crisis a year from now.

 

 

So I hope in vain that it wont be Martinez, because it makes no sense.

[FanchesterCity]

You know the shits hit the fan when a city fan is telling us whats best for us.

 

It's not a case of what's best and what isn't... who knows what lurks around the corner for any club?

 

But, there's plenty of fans of all clubs up and down the country who can tell you of some epic disasters resulting from questionable ownership.

 

As disasters go, Liverpool's current woes are pretty small fry. Won yet another trophy, and reached yet another final and 'only' finished mid table. In the grand scheme of things it's sod all.

 

For Liverpool that's enough 'trouble' to cause concern amongst the fans.

 

When other fans try and add some external perspective, they're castigated:

 

- If they illustrate what looks to be a gulf in points tally between the leaders and Liverpool, they're 'rubbing noses in it'

 

- If they illustrate that things aren't really all that bad - they 'don't understand the club, and how it might be fine for most clubs, but not good enough for Liverpool'

 

- If they say the club's looking messed up (at the moment), then the retort is the history of cockups elsewhere (like City and Leeds) - which are entirely true, but it doesn't change the debate about Liverpool at this moment in time.

 

 

Sadly, none of this is about fans or 'the club' per se. It's about ownership. The fans don't get to pick and choose what happens to their clubs. If they get a good owner - great, and if they get a bad one - it could spell a nightmare for the club.

From sugardaddies to asset strippers, local heroes to financial investment groups, it's all a bit of a merry-go-round.

 

If the owners appointed Ron Atkinson tomorrow, there would still be 45,000 turning up at Anfield week in week out despite all the 'losing faith' reactions to potential appointments like Martinez or Rogers, and forums like this are simply for folks to have a bitch and a moan, show hopeless optimism, or just comment from a number of different angles.

 

Nothing said or done on here will change a thing. Differing opinions aren't going to hurt anyone.

 

In my lifetime, I've seen two team TOTALLY dominate with a handful of 'also rans'. That puts Liverpool fans amongst a very privileged few to have experienced that level of success. Sometimes, fans just don't appreciate how lucky they are.

[Glen C]

But if its another transitional year, why sack Kenny?

 

The only way I wanted Kenny to go was if there was a decent replacement.

 

If we are getting a relegation fodder candidate who then does shit, why would FSG keep faith with him?

 

So we could have another managerial crisis a year from now.

 

 

So I hope in vain that it wont be Martinez, because it makes no sense.

 

Sometimes you have go to go backwards before you go forwards. Whoever comes in may take us backwards at first until his vision is fully implemented and grows with experience. Of course i'm speaking in hope here. Whoever comes in could be shit and we go into a relegation battle. I personally don't think Kenny would have done any better this season if he stayed.

[FanchesterCity]

But you forget he's been watching football for time and has arbitrarily chosen this season to proffer his wisdom to LFC supporters. Where were you way back in 2008-09, Fanchester City? We could have done with the real sage stuff then.

 

Very poor argument that really.

 

It's not like I choose how well (or not) City do. If they do well, it's nothing to do with me, I just pay and watch. If the do crap, same deal.

 

So if a fan comes here and their team is doing well, it's a case of 'easy to say when you're winning'.

If they come here and their team isn't doing well, it's a case of 'from a team in the 2nd division?'

 

It's not supposed to be a forum about 'my team is better than your team' crap - it's supposed to be (I thought) honest opinion about Liverpool at this moment in time, from a wide range of angles. Some say 'get rid of Kenny' and 'should have kept him'. Some say Carroll's going to come good, some say he's a donkey - opinions galore.

It should hardly be a bloody revelation if other fans think there are pros and cons to whoever the next manager is - it's not like a torrent of abuse!

[Ne Moe Imya]

Great.

 

Now there will be rallying call after rallying call to "support the manager," and "get behind him," etc. when Martinez is hired. We all know that it's a long shot he succeeds, but just like Hodgson we'll support him, at least in public and hopefully at Anfield, while knowing deep down it's not going to work.

 

And then when, in six months, we're still languishing in 6th or 8th, the fan pressure will start to ratchet up, but the owners will be crying for patience.

 

No, I'm going to go further with this. Listen, FSG, you give us competent, proven management and a tangible plan for moving forward, and we'll give you patience. We are still Liverpool fans, and if it takes a season or two to succeed, we'll be right there behind you. You won't believe the amount of patience most of us have - as bad as the past few years have been, we're still different from the fans at other clubs. You won't walk alone, is what I'm saying.

 

But in order to earn the privilege of not walking alone, we ask that you respect us as fans, and as intelligent human beings. If you sack our beloved King Kenny for only winning one cup and getting to another cup final, you had better damn sure bring in someone to replace him whose entire CV doesn't consist of question marks. You had better bring in someone who makes us say "Well, now, this is exciting. I could really see this being a success." Not someone who makes us say "well, I suppose it's possible he could eventually build a winner."

 

Because if that's all you had to offer, then why didn't you leave Dalglish in charge? That was a no-lose proposition. We all love him, and if we're going to struggle outside the top 4 anyway, we'd rather it was behind a man who lives and breathes for the club, a man who has put it all on the line for us before and would do it again.

 

You still have time to reconsider. All the information we're hearing from behind the scenes (which, to your credit, is minimal) is that you're not willing to consider the obvious choice, a man who is on your doorstep twiddling his thumbs and who loves this club. That's fine. It's your prerogative; you just took a beating over sacking a club legend and if you don't want to risk it with another, I understand. But then we hear that of the few top names in the frame, you're ruling out the obvious one for reasons you won't explain, and it's starting to look like you're setting us up to bring in a man who won fewer games with Wigan than Steve Bruce.

 

Do not make that mistake. I know none of you will read this, and I don't care, I'm just saying it as sort of a pathetic "plea to no one." Please, please, do not hire Roberto Martinez.

[Torvald Utne]

It's not a case of what's best and what isn't... who knows what lurks around the corner for any club?

 

But, there's plenty of fans of all clubs up and down the country who can tell you of some epic disasters resulting from questionable ownership.

 

As disasters go, Liverpool's current woes are pretty small fry. Won yet another trophy, and reached yet another final and 'only' finished mid table. In the grand scheme of things it's sod all.

 

For Liverpool that's enough 'trouble' to cause concern amongst the fans.

 

When other fans try and add some external perspective, they're castigated:

 

- If they illustrate what looks to be a gulf in points tally between the leaders and Liverpool, they're 'rubbing noses in it'

 

- If they illustrate that things aren't really all that bad - they 'don't understand the club, and how it might be fine for most clubs, but not good enough for Liverpool'

 

- If they say the club's looking messed up (at the moment), then the retort is the history of cockups elsewhere (like City and Leeds) - which are entirely true, but it doesn't change the debate about Liverpool at this moment in time.

 

 

Sadly, none of this is about fans or 'the club' per se. It's about ownership. The fans don't get to pick and choose what happens to their clubs. If they get a good owner - great, and if they get a bad one - it could spell a nightmare for the club.

From sugardaddies to asset strippers, local heroes to financial investment groups, it's all a bit of a merry-go-round.

 

If the owners appointed Ron Atkinson tomorrow, there would still be 45,000 turning up at Anfield week in week out despite all the 'losing faith' reactions to potential appointments like Martinez or Rogers, and forums like this are simply for folks to have a bitch and a moan, show hopeless optimism, or just comment from a number of different angles.

 

Nothing said or done on here will change a thing. Differing opinions aren't going to hurt anyone.

 

In my lifetime, I've seen two team TOTALLY dominate with a handful of 'also rans'. That puts Liverpool fans amongst a very privileged few to have experienced that level of success. Sometimes, fans just don't appreciate how lucky they are.

 

Fucking hell you're like a manc Brownie.

[FanchesterCity]

Sometimes you have go to go backwards before you go forwards. Whoever comes in may take us backwards at first until his vision is fully implemented and grows with experience. Of course i'm speaking in hope here. Whoever comes in could be shit and we go into a relegation battle. I personally don't think Kenny would have done any better this season if he stayed.

 

That's absolutely true, but still only works with the right man at the helm.

With the right guy, it's one step back, and two steps forward.

With the wrong guy, it's two steps back, and one step forward.

 

You could argue that Kenny only sidestepped for 18 months and wasn't given a chance to move forwards.

 

For the fans though - looking over (say) the last 20 years, there's only one genuine period when Liverpool were really looking the best team in the land, and had a whiff of their former glory. That was with Rafa. For all his pros and cons, he was the only man who managed it in recent times and he wasn't fired for lousy results.

 

I'd like to think Kenny could have done the same, but what's done is done.

[kalasoma]

So if a fan comes here and their team is doing well, it's a case of 'easy to say when you're winning'.

...

It should hardly be a bloody revelation if other fans think there are pros and cons to whoever the next manager is - it's not like a torrent of abuse!

 

If a fan from a rival club visits and posts on another club's forum, the questions will be along the lines of: 1) why are you here 2) don't you think it's a bit unusual that you're here 3) do fans of your own club think it's a bit weird that you're here? Perfectly legitimate and reasonable to question the motivation for your (a City fan) contributions to a Liverpool forum I would have thought.

 

What other fans think (of a particular club), tends to be shared on those particular fan's forums/blogs. But you're free to post where you like.

[kalasoma]

Sorry, but why is everyone saying 'when' Martinez is hired? There seems to be a general inevitability of his appointment and I'm not sure where it's coming from. I might have missed the latest rumour.

[Ne Moe Imya]

The latest is that Villas Boas, the last credible remaining candidate, has been ruled out, as written by the Guardian, the Echo, and the one person on twitter who seems to have some sort of source in FSG.

[Glen C]

The latest is that Villas Boas, the last credible remaining candidate, has been ruled out, as written by the Guardian, the Echo, and the one person on twitter who seems to have some sort of source in FSG.

 

Only Rogers can stop Martinez from being appointed now i reckon. Rogers is currently in Spain isn't he as he wants to pick up some more training tips.

[Horus]

We should listen to Fnachester. After all, his club have taken the long term approach to success and built up slowly by making good appointments. Also, because City have been consistently successful over the last 50 years, Fanchester obviously knows what he's talking about.

 

What?

 

Oh.

[dennis tooth]

Sorry, but why is everyone saying 'when' Martinez is hired? There seems to be a general inevitability of his appointment and I'm not sure where it's coming from. I might have missed the latest rumour.

 

Its pretty obvious they want him bad. As much as Purslow wanted bodger.

Hes on his 2nd interview with no other realistic candidate in sight. They are just padding it out because we are a little sensitive about the owners making incompetant decisions with our club.

[Magic Sponge]

We should listen to Fnachester. After all, his club have taken the long term approach to success and built up slowly by making good appointments. Also, because City have been consistently successful over the last 50 years, Fanchester obviously knows what he's talking about.

 

What?

 

Oh.

 

*sniggers*

[FanchesterCity]

We should listen to Fnachester. After all, his club have taken the long term approach to success and built up slowly by making good appointments. Also, because City have been consistently successful over the last 50 years, Fanchester obviously knows what he's talking about.

 

What?

 

Oh.

 

Two ways to answer that:

 

1) Having witnessed some of the almighty cockups at a club gives experience (even if awful ones). Chairmen who loved the club so much they ruled with their heart and not their head and made a mess of things, crazy spending, managerial merry go rounds etc etc.

 

2) What happens to a club on the pitch isn't any reflection of the fans. Do fans of Accrington Stanley know any less about football than Barcelona fans? or is their opinion any less valid? If anything there's an argument that it's more valid, as it's likely they aren't in it for the glory are they?

 

All in all, it's just madness to think Barca fans must be right cos they have a great team and Blackburn fans are wrong because they've been relegated. If you genuinely think along those lines, then you're no judge at all.

I suspect you don't actually think that way at all.

[kalasoma]

Two ways to answer that:

 

1) Having witnessed some of the almighty cockups at a club gives experience (even if awful ones). Chairmen who loved the club so much they ruled with their heart and not their head and made a mess of things, crazy spending, managerial merry go rounds etc etc.

 

2) What happens to a club on the pitch isn't any reflection of the fans. Do fans of Accrington Stanley know any less about football than Barcelona fans? or is their opinion any less valid? If anything there's an argument that it's more valid, as it's likely they aren't in it for the glory are they?

 

All in all, it's just madness to think Barca fans must be right cos they have a great team and Blackburn fans are wrong because they've been relegated. If you genuinely think along those lines, then you're no judge at all.

I suspect you don't actually think that way at all.

 

If your desire is to talk about football, why on this forum and why not your own? I think that's the crux of it. Barca fans know a lot more about their team than I think Accrington Stanley fans would know about Barca, and vice versa. Why would Barca fans be interested in Accrington Stanley anyway? I think that's what a couple of people are trying to get their heads around. It only seems logical. I don't think its about whether your perspective or perception is right or wrong.

[Glen C]

Why Roberto Martinez is considering snubbing Liverpool and Aston Villa to finish his Wigan project - James Nursey - Mirror Online

 

Keep your Wigan! Why Martinez is considering snubbing Liverpool and Villa to finish his Latics project

 

James Nursey on why the in-demand Spaniard could end up disappointing his many suitors

 

 

 

Roberto Martinez is a man in demand again this summer.

 

The Wigan boss, 38, enhanced his reputation by masterminding victories over Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal in the run-in.

 

It ensured the Latics again avoided relegation to secure their top-flight status by coming 15th after seven wins in their final nine Premier League games.

 

Martinez's feats in keeping Wigan up for three seasons despite their modest crowds, playing budget and salaries is a commendable achievement.

 

And all the time, the Spaniard has stayed true to his philosophy of passing football.

 

His work has not gone unnoticed as Liverpool have permission to speak to Martinez about their vacancy to replace Kenny Dalglish.

 

While Villa, who unsuccessfully courted Martinez a year ago, again fancy him to be their new manager.

 

And neighbouring West Brom have been trying to woo Martinez as well to replace Roy Hodgson.

 

I spoke with one of Martinez's close allies this week to discuss his options.

 

And I was told Roberto is actually seriously considering snubbing all three clubs to stay at Wigan which surprised me somewhat.

 

As I write, Martinez has not been offered the Liverpool job yet but is considering declining even if they table a contract.

 

And when my contact explained Martinez's perspective, it did make a lot of sense.

 

For Martinez believes in Wigan's potential to have a decent season next year and wants to finish his 'project' there.

 

Martinez is mindful he left Swansea in June 2009 having assembled many of the building blocks which Brendan Rodgers has capitalised on.

 

Rodgers has since got nearly all of the credit for subsequently taking the Welsh club up to the Premier League playing a slick brand of passing football which Martinez originally introduced at the Liberty Stadium.

 

Brendan Rodgers: capitalised on Martinez's good work at Swansea

Now Martinez is loathe to again chuck away his time spent building an exciting, young side at Wigan for someone else to take all the credit next season if they do well.

 

Following their fine finish to this campaign, Martinez believes that with just a couple of shrewd additions, Wigan can be a top ten side next season if they keep their nucleus of young stars such as Victor Moses, James McArthur and James McCarthy.

 

And he believes, if he gets Wigan to do even better next season, he could perhaps get an even more tempting job offer in 12 months' time from more successful current clubs like Arsenal, Tottenham or Chelsea.

 

That is what I have been reliably told and I can now see Martinez remaining at Wigan.

 

Of course, that is not to discount the possibility of Martinez being offered a vast pay-rise to go to Anfield or Villa Park to make him think: s** it!

 

So he may yet decide to cash in his chips at Wigan and move on with owner Dave Whelan's blessing.

 

Roberto Martinez: determined to finish Wigan project

But leaving the DW Stadium this summer is definitely not the no-brainer for Martinez that a lot of people must imagine.

 

Liverpool would expect instant results and progress without a huge budget which is a tough challenge.

 

While Villa fans continue to demand successful, stylish football despite operating with financial prudence, which Albion also subscribe to.

 

So even though Martinez is listed among the favourites for all three posts, perhaps the smart money is on him actually staying at Wigan.

[dennis tooth]

Ignore them fc fans of other teams always get a ruff ride here

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Only Rogers can stop Martinez from being appointed now i reckon. Rogers is currently in Spain isn't he as he wants to pick up some more training tips.

Martinez is supposed to be somewhere in the Caribbean on a cruise as well.

[Horus]

Two ways to answer that:

 

1) Having witnessed some of the almighty cockups at a club gives experience (even if awful ones). Chairmen who loved the club so much they ruled with their heart and not their head and made a mess of things, crazy spending, managerial merry go rounds etc etc.

 

2) What happens to a club on the pitch isn't any reflection of the fans. Do fans of Accrington Stanley know any less about football than Barcelona fans? or is their opinion any less valid? If anything there's an argument that it's more valid, as it's likely they aren't in it for the glory are they?

 

All in all, it's just madness to think Barca fans must be right cos they have a great team and Blackburn fans are wrong because they've been relegated. If you genuinely think along those lines, then you're no judge at all.

I suspect you don't actually think that way at all.

 

Who's talking about Barca? As a club, you won the lottery. That's it, so I don't get why you think you're qualified to offer advice to us.

 

There is absolutely no chance in hell that you would be a regular contributor here, without the investment you received.

 

If I want to be patronised, I'll ask Kate Upton if she could ever love me, I won't be asking a lottery winner to advise me on financial planning.

[aiyic]

Two ways to answer that:

 

1) Having witnessed some of the almighty cockups at a club gives experience (even if awful ones). Chairmen who loved the club so much they ruled with their heart and not their head and made a mess of things, crazy spending, managerial merry go rounds etc etc.

 

2) What happens to a club on the pitch isn't any reflection of the fans. Do fans of Accrington Stanley know any less about football than Barcelona fans? or is their opinion any less valid? If anything there's an argument that it's more valid, as it's likely they aren't in it for the glory are they?

 

All in all, it's just madness to think Barca fans must be right cos they have a great team and Blackburn fans are wrong because they've been relegated. If you genuinely think along those lines, then you're no judge at all.

I suspect you don't actually think that way at all.

 

 

[J-V]

Why Roberto Martinez is considering snubbing Liverpool and Aston Villa to finish his Wigan project - James Nursey - Mirror Online

 

That's it Roberto do the right thing and snub us. Fuck knows how we will survive without your utter shit management but some how we'll manage.

[Guest davelfc]

Who are FSG talking to right now