Goals, where are they going to come from?

[TheHowieLama]

Cmon mate, Enrique has only scored 2 goals in his whole club career, why would he all of a sudden score 2 goals in the next 17 games?

 

Cuz he is in a side with quality that he has not been around previously? Cuz I have seen him attack effectively but snatch at the end since he is in unfamiliar waters? Cuz he has matured as a player and has the spotlight now? Cuz he is a man amongst boys in every other area of the pitch? Most importantly cuz it would piss Code off...

[stringvest]

Bless.

 

[YOUTUBE]kHmvkRoEowc[/YOUTUBE]

 

What a div. Slash and burn.

[Barnesey]

Most people's response to this very real problem is we need some different players and, whilst I wouldn't argue that we may do better with alternatives, we need to address the way we are playing.

 

On Satdee we had 6 players in midfield for long periods but still managed to play very narrow and right into the hands of a Stoke team with 4 centre backs in defence. Even Citeh last Wednesday, who looked toothless, had a guy on each touchline to stretch us.

 

We need to get our wide players - full backs and Downing in particular - to play wide. We need to get players from midfield running past the strikers and making an overlap or getting in the box.

 

I've said before on this forum, we need a "stock" goal. Look at how many of the goals are scored in the Prem; it often involves getting players behind the defence, usually wide, and knocking in low crosses along the 6 yard box. Why don't we try that? Instead we get 6 players in an arc outside the penalty area, all static, no-one tries to run in behind.

 

SG has tried the occasional 1-2 but otherwise we are clueless. There are enough good coaches at the Club to address this issue but until we have a clear idea of what we are trying to achieve when we get in the last third I am not sure any number of new signings will make much difference.

[VladimirIlyich]

Its all about attitude.

If you have enough shots and create chances then you will score.

I remember a stat once that remained pretty true that if a team has at least 10 shots per game,on average they will win 8 draw 1 and lose 1 per 10 games and thats good enough to keep us in the running.

[Pan77]

Most people's response to this very real problem is we need some different players and, whilst I wouldn't argue that we may do better with alternatives, we need to address the way we are playing.

 

On Satdee we had 6 players in midfield for long periods but still managed to play very narrow and right into the hands of a Stoke team with 4 centre backs in defence. Even Citeh last Wednesday, who looked toothless, had a guy on each touchline to stretch us.

 

We need to get our wide players - full backs and Downing in particular - to play wide. We need to get players from midfield running past the strikers and making an overlap or getting in the box.

 

I've said before on this forum, we need a "stock" goal. Look at how many of the goals are scored in the Prem; it often involves getting players behind the defence, usually wide, and knocking in low crosses along the 6 yard box. Why don't we try that? Instead we get 6 players in an arc outside the penalty area, all static, no-one tries to run in behind.

 

SG has tried the occasional 1-2 but otherwise we are clueless. There are enough good coaches at the Club to address this issue but until we have a clear idea of what we are trying to achieve when we get in the last third I am not sure any number of new signings will make much difference.

 

This is spot on. We're absolutely shite at getting behind teams and we have been for years. Scum are brilliant at it and thats where the majority of their goals come from. Spurs are also decent at it. Both these teams have settled formations and they more or less use the same attacking players.

 

I just wish we'd settle on a formation and stop swapping players. I'd love to see Maxi, Gerrard, Bellamy, Suarez and Carroll in the same team for a prolonged period of time. If we can't score goals with those in the team it's time to pack it in.

[silverlining]

This is spot on. We're absolutely shite at getting behind teams and we have been for years. Scum are brilliant at it and thats where the majority of their goals come from. Spurs are also decent at it. Both these teams have settled formations and they more or less use the same attacking players.

 

I just wish we'd settle on a formation and stop swapping players. I'd love to see Maxi, Gerrard, Bellamy, Suarez and Carroll in the same team for a prolonged period of time. If we can't score goals with those in the team it's time to pack it in.

 

Well, to penetrate teams you either need to pass your way through them, or have players skilful/ quick enough to run around players.

 

Sadly, we don't have many players who can do either (Adam can do the former; Bellamy, Magic and Enrique the latter), and only Gerrard and Suarez can do both.

 

Lucas, Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Kuyt can't do either.

[Gym Beglin]

I think you're a tad hard on Henderson, I've seen a couple of passes from him to suggest he can play a killer ball in behind for someone.

The problem is, we won't really utilise that skill in him, or Adam, until we're playing with a front-man who can run onto such balls.

 

I bet Henderson looks up and see's gaps and would love to play a weighted ball in behind for a striker with a bit of pace, but you know he won't get there and so you pass sideways and keep on searching for a possible way through.

 

I think it's key, especially as Henderson was impressive for Sunderland with the likes of Bent or Gyan, or even Frazier Campbell up front.

 

I think even Barca would look shite with Carroll or Kuyt on their own. If we don't go in for a new striker this January then I'm not a happy bunny, and I'm not going to hide that it'll be down to Kenny. It'd be a ludicrous idea to continue as we are, and so I dont believe for a second we won't bring someone in.

[Pan77]

Well, to penetrate teams you either need to pass your way through them, or have players skilful/ quick enough to run around players.

 

Sadly, we don't have many players who can do either (Adam can do the former; Bellamy, Magic and Enrique the latter), and only Gerrard and Suarez can do both.

 

Lucas, Henderson, Downing, Carroll, Kuyt can't do either.

 

That's why I mentioned playing all our players who can get behind teams. As you've just pointed out Gerrard, Suarez and Bellamy can penetrate teams. Maxi can as well with him movement. Carroll clearly doesn't fit the mould but with the other above mentioned players pushing forward he surely must score more than he has? We need to work with what we've got as I can't see us buying a striker in the next few weeks.

[Trumo]

The number of times we've failed to score in games is a massive reason why we've only had sporadic success since winning the title in 1990. I've not looked at the figures before then, but I have looked at the numbers for every season since 1990/91, when by common consensus the rot really set in.

 

Having the mentality to want to score goals ALL the time - and having the ability to deliver on this front - is an area where Liverpool has been found wanting on so many occasions over that time period. We complain the ManU are spawny so often (and often they are REALLY spawny gits), but they also have a mindset that makes them believe they will score at least one goal every time they play. The importance of this cannot be overlooked.

 

A team feeling that they will score at least once whenever they play is less likely to get edgy when their opponents park the bus because they know they have both the temperament and the ability to make a breakthrough. If your opponents' entire gameplan revolves around sitting back and shutting you out, they will find it very difficult to suddenly go on the offensive when they themselves need a goal, and if they did, they would be leaving themselves open to a hiding. If you can get your team to go out with a mentality that they will score goals, more often than not, they will.

 

Here's the thing. If all your opponents are acutely aware of this too, then it is massive psychologically for both teams because they both know that the one with the positive mentality effectively has a goal head-start. This is where the Mancs over the last 20 years, and Arsenal when they were dominant, were so effective. Remember when Arsenal won the Premier League scoring in every game and going unbeaten away from home? That was 2 years before they completed an entire season unbeaten. You cannot underestimate the impact of this mentality. It is worth more than the individual ability of your players, and is why ManU can get by with supposedly weakened squads.

 

Looking at the numbers I've collated since the 1990/91 season (up to and including the Stoke game last weekend), here is a summary of the findings. I haven't looked at comparable number for the Mancs but I am certain they are far better than ours. By the way, the numbers are based on all competitive games played over that period. For argument's sake, I've included Charity Shield, UEFA Super Cup and World Club Cup fixtures too.

 

No. of games played - 1184

No. of goals scored - 1965

No. of goals conceded - 1146

No. of games we've failed to score in - 271

 

Goals per game.

Overall - 1.66 goals per game

Best season - 1990/91 (2.06 goals per game)

Seasons with average over 1.8 - 1990/91 (2.06), 1998/99 (1.81), 2000/01 (2.02), 2007/08 (2.02), 2008/09 (1.93)

Worst season - 2004/05 (1.37 goals per game)

Seasons with average below 1.5 - 1991/92 (1.38), 1999/00 (1.47), 2004/05 (1.37), 2009/10 (1.5), 2010/11 (1.43), 2011/12 (1.44 so far)

 

No. of games we've failed to scored in.

Overall - 23% of games!

Best season (%) - 1990/91 (14%)

Best season (number of games where we failed to score) - 1990/91 (7 games)

Seasons below 20% - 1990/91 (14%), 1996/97 (17%), 1997/98 (17%), 2000/01 (16%), 2001/02 (15%), 2003/04 (16%), 2007/08 (17%), 2008/09 (15%)

Worst seasons (%) - 1999/00 and 2004/05 (both 33%!!!)

Worst seasons (number of blanks) - both 1991/92 and 2004/05 (20 games in each where we failed to score)

 

I have much more detailed info, but the numbers above tell the basic story.

 

Certainly, the overall percentage of games where we failed to find the net is staggeringly high, at 23%. That's pretty much 1 in 4 games where we draw a blank. How much pressure does that put on us both in those particular games, and subsequent games where we have to "turn the corner", "work harder" and all that bollocks the players and coaches trot out whenever it happens?

 

Also noticeable is that the average is worse in those seasons where we've had a squad overhaul. It appears that it takes our players at least a season before they start to click as - in general - very few new signings hit the ground running for us. I think, especially since Houllier, defenders have settled in much better than attacking signings, but I haven't looked at this in statistical terms (I didn't look at the clean sheets stats).

 

People will say we've had coaches with a defensive mindset which has contributed to the problem, and to an extent it's true, but when you look at it over a period of over 20 years, we've had different types of managers in that time so you cannot say that is a decisive factor.

 

There's loads more I can say on this, but I need time to put together a more coherent argument.

[Unrighteous]

Hell of a post, Trumo.

[Captain]

Could someone rep Trumo for me? Gotta love a stat man with perspective.

[Code]

This is our reality, we need a fuckin goalscorer and we need him now.

 

Some pace and creativity would not go a miss either.

 

1.Manchester City 21 games - 57 goals

2.Manchester Utd 21 games - 52 goals

3.Chelsea 22 games - 40 goals

4.Tottenham 21 games - 39 goals

5.Arsenal 21 games - 38 goals

6.Blackburn 22 games - 33 goals

7.Newcastle 22 games - 32 goals

8.Norwich City 22 games - 32 goals

9.Sunderland 22 games - 29 goals

10.Fulham 22 games - 28 goals

11.Bolton 22 games - 28 goals

12.Aston Villa 22 games - 26 goals

13.Wolves 22 games - 25 goals

14.Liverpool 22 games - 25 goals

15.Stoke 22 games - 23 goals

16.Swansea 22 games - 23 goals

17.Everton 22 games - 22 goals

18.West Brom 22 games - 22 goals

19.Queens Park 22 games - 22 goals

20.Wigan 22 games - 19 goals

[18-5]

Better tactics would not go amiss either.

[VladimirIlyich]

Better tactics would not go amiss either.

 

Tactics dont win matches,players do.

 

Theres too much emphasis on tactics its more about having the right mentality and positive attitude.

There's not enough positivity on the pitch at present.

[Red Nick]

If we had more player in the box we might score more goals

[bricko66]

Tactics dont win matches,players do.

 

Theres too much emphasis on tactics its more about having the right mentality and positive attitude.

There's not enough positivity on the pitch at present.

 

Disagree there mate i reckon moving stevie further up would make carroll or bellamy more chances. This deep role not his best position

[kalasoma]

Jeeze. To see it in writing that we're actually being totally outscored by Blackburn makes me feel a bit ill.

[Tyler Durden]

Disagree there mate i reckon moving stevie further up would make carroll or bellamy more chances. This deep role not his best position

 

There is a reason he has been pulled back and that's because He has to do 2 men's work

[VladimirIlyich]

Disagree there mate i reckon moving stevie further up would make carroll or bellamy more chances. This deep role not his best position

 

That would have meant on Saturday having adam as the DM and I dont think thats workable myself.

 

I think a Midfield 3 of Spearing Henderson and Gerrard would be our best option at present.

[KopOut]

Without Suarez and Stevie, we havn't the frontal penetration which compliments the wing attack approach, making us one dimensional.

 

Lets be honest, even before Torres went, we never had the depth of striking capability. The sad fact is, we bought Carroll to replace Torres, because Suarez is actually an attacking mid. We sold N'gog before he even got 'bedded in'. Striking depth hasn't been Liverpool's strong point for what seems like an eternity.

 

Kuyt is finished, imo, mainly because he was wrecked as a striker by Benitez, and now, in the twilight of his career, he has nothing left in the tank. However, we have no depth so he is still needed.

 

One injury (Gerrard) One suspension (Suarez) and we're just not an attacking force. We didn't NEED Henderson, Downing or Adam. We needed STRIKERS. We got Carroll, and Bellamy on a free.

 

I only hope to God all these midfield purchases can't be credited to Kenny, and that he took advice, and that the Director Of Football in his stupidity, made the ridiculous decision to shell out all that cash on an unproven player, because if KK was responsible, then maybe he IS finished. Perish the thought.

 

I repeat, no depth to begin with, two injuries and a suspension, and the team is fucked.

 

To have any chance of scoring goals and finishing strongly, we need Kelly back at RB, we need Gerrard in an attacking midfield role, instead of holding. I would try Spearing or Carragher in the holding position, dropping Adam. I'd put Johnson at RM, and with Suarez back at LM in an attacking role, backed up by Robinson or Enrique.

 

Kuyt and Bellamy striking until further notice. Bring Carroll off the bench as a last resort, so that everyone can see he's still alive.

Edited January 24, 2012 by KopOut

[Code]

 

As for the OP. I will go a fiver to your favorite charity that the trio of "does not score goals" (read Downing, Shelvey and Enrique) will. I also notice that your Gerrard stats are "manipulated" - he will score more. The same goes for Skrtel who of course has scored 2 in 15 this season.

So the short answer is the "data" is somewhat suspect, improved form from players completely discounted and a new addition will result in a better tally of goals by years end using this same criteria.

 

So how is this working out then HowieLama?

[Barnesey]

Stat on talkbollox today, we have had 22 more shots than Utd this season but scored 38 fewer goals. Amazing.

 

I suggested earlier we should try to get behind defences; we did this agin the Arse and still couldn't score. No sign on Satdee.

 

But if we had van persie in our side we wouldn't be far off top of the league. So I am changing my view; we need to buy someone who knows where the goal is; Llorente?

[Original202]

Stat on talkbollox today, we have had 22 more shots than Utd this season but scored 38 fewer goals. Amazing.

 

 

Anyone have any stats showing where our typical shots are coming from? What proportion come from outside the box, inside the box and inside the penalty area?

 

I'd say shots from outside the box can't be counted as 'chances' but I can certainly remember us missing some absolute sitters from 7 or 8 yards out.

[Torvald Utne]

This is what I've been saying all season, the shots/chances we are having may range in the hundreds but they are shit chances, we don't carve teams apart, we take pot shots and snatched half chances. Whole new midfield bar Lucas is required to fix this.

[MLB]

Has Suarez been our most wasteful player in front of goal?