Rumour has it........

[BolshieBastard]

Have you seen Villa this season?

 

Clueless fuckers.

 

We've hardly set the world alight have we.

 

Funny how some people use a stick to beat O'Neill with that they use to defend Rafa.

 

head, nail, on, hit.

Only real difference is benitez gets to spunk 20m on a transfer. Twice, ffs!

[Woo]

So if the Snidey Fucking Goblin (I've been using that for a while now and it has nothing to do with his ability/inability as a football manager so you can shut the fuck up about it) is so good, how is a manager who's record in teh Premiership pisses all over SFG's so bad?

 

Oh, because YOU don't like that manger. Take a look at your avatar and posts about Rafa, and shut up about what others post about SFG.

 

Seems a bit out of order that, but it may have something to do with the differing resources each manager has had to work with, and massive gulf in class between the two different teams.

[RedKnight]

Hiddink, not good enough. O'Neill, not good enough. Wow, some of you are hard to please, no one measures up to Rafa.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

is lint attacking or defensive?

 

Plays in the hole.

[kop]

Hiddink, not good enough. O'Neill, not good enough. Wow, some of you are hard to please, no one measures up to Rafa.

 

Hiddink has the top club experience so he could probably do a good job here, but O'Neill is just another one of those managers in the rotating pool of the mediocre teams. He would probably be in the top 10% of the "shit" managers we could and probably will get, but nowhere near the level we need if we are to do better than we have. So yeah, hard to please, but that's how it should be aswell.

[RedKnight]

Hiddink has the top club experience so he could probably do a good job here, but O'Neill is just another one of those managers in the rotating pool of the mediocre teams. He would probably be in the top 10% of the "shit" managers we could and probably will get, but nowhere near the level we need if we are to do better than we have. So yeah, hard to please, but that's how it should be aswell.

 

O'Neill is shit in your view then? Madness.

 

As far I can see his career path has been pretty standard. Start off at a small club, move to low to medium club and bring them up to the top league and get them to perform well above standard. Then move to big club in small league, win shitloads, back to big league with club just below top clubs, get them in Europe and have them perform to their size, in a league where the top four hasn't changed for almost 5 years.

[kop]

O'Neill is shit in your view then? Madness.

 

As far I can see his career path has been pretty standard. Start off at a small club, move to low to medium club and bring them up to the top league and get them to perform well above standard. Then move to big club in small league, win shitloads, back to big league with club just below top clubs, get them in Europe and have them perform to their size, in a league where the top four hasn't changed for almost 5 years.

 

Never said he was shit mate, but it is a far way from mediocre, ok, fairly good etc. to a top manager. It is the latter we need and O'Neill is not a top manager in my opinion.

 

Edit; I said he was "shit" as a reference to the formulations other people have used. The apostrophes was used to show that I actually don't use that terminology when desrcibing him, but I can see that it could be interpreted like that.

[JohnnyH]

Hiddink, not good enough. O'Neill, not good enough. Wow, some of you are hard to please, no one measures up to Rafa.

 

Why do they have to measure up to Rafa? If Rafa is gone and we are getting in a new manager then it doesn't matter how a manager compares to anyone. It's if they are good enough to take us on. The two people you mention are not good enough and we would remain as we are now, if not worse, under them in my opinion.

[RedKnight]

Why do they have to measure up to Rafa? If Rafa is gone and we are getting in a new manager then it doesn't matter how a manager compares to anyone. It's if they are good enough to take us on. The two people you mention are not good enough and we would remain as we are now, if not worse, under them in my opinion.

 

In your opinion.

[JohnnyH]

In your opinion.

 

Yep. I'm adding that to very much make the point that it is my opinion and I'm not speaking for others.

 

I think Hiddinks history points to regular failure once at a bigger club, and O'Neill, for me, is not going to win us a title, and may possibly challenge for 4th, but if we are to change manager then I want someone who will challenge for the title (I'm assuming under new owners as, again in my opinion, I don't think any manager anywhere will challenge for the title under the current ownership).

[aws]

Not aimed at you Code aimed at the people who just come on and go 'goblin', 'shithouse lad' and all that.

 

He's done boss at Leicester, boss at Celtic and he's doing as well as he can do with Villa if you ask me.

 

I dont want him as Liverpool manager for the record, i've dabbled with the idea but I dont.

 

BUT, i dont see how people can call him what they have and rip him like they have when he's clearly a good manager.

 

So it's not OK for people on here to rip into other managers on one thread but it's OK for you to rip into our manager for months on end on nearly every thread?

[WaltonRed]

So it's not OK for people on here to rip into other managers on one thread but it's OK for you to rip into our manager for months on end on nearly every thread?

 

They've ripped MON without foundation.

 

Show me one thread i've had a go at Rafa for a) nothing b) called him names

 

Cant be arsed arguing anyway so i'll just leave the thread.

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

head, nail, on, hit.

Only real difference is benitez gets to spunk 20m on a transfer. Twice, ffs!

 

O'Neill has spent, on average, over £11,000,000 per season more than Rafa since he took over at Villa

[Guest PurpleNose]

Seems a bit out of order that, but it may have something to do with the differing resources each manager has had to work with, and massive gulf in class between the two different teams.

 

Which manager are you defending here? Benitez?

[Manny]

He wouldn't be a massive step back, especially considering the season we've had so far. That said, he probably wouldn't be a step forward either. There's a lot of managers I'd prefer to see if Rafa goes, but I wouldn't shit myself if O'Neill came in.

[stringvest]

Maybe he's angling for a job in Italy?

[Torvald Utne]

Seems a bit out of order that, but it may have something to do with the differing resources each manager has had to work with, and massive gulf in class between the two different teams.

 

Get the fuck out of here and take that shit to the Jose Shitcoat thread! ;)

[Guest TK-421]

Goblin.

[Whelan]

Goblin.

 

This, in bold. Goblin

[Kennys_spell]

It doesn't matter that it's Scotland. He still won three league titles, thus showing that he doesn't always run out of steam or "bottle it" as Code72 puts it. He's also won division titles with Wycombe when he was in charge there including two consecutive promotions, showing that he can manage a team to sustain two seasons of consecutive "not bottling".

 

A Little context about Scotland and it's League.

 

Walter Smith has made Rangers almost invincible in that league.

Walter Smith almost got Everton relegated.

[Brownie]

A Little context about Scotland and it's League.

 

Walter Smith has made Rangers almost invincible in that league.

Walter Smith almost got Everton relegated.

 

You could argue it in many different ways though; McLeish is probably doing better right now in our league than he did in the Scottish one, relatively speaking.

 

As for O'Neill, he's not my choice, however I think he's definitely going to be on the list of options for the owners/board.

[Kennys_spell]

I have to disagree with that. Heskey fair enough was a poor buy but Milner, Young, Dunne, Warnock, Cuellar, Petrov, Carew, Downing are all good buys IMO. I think he has an eye for a player.

 

I don't know if I'd want him at Liverpool. I don't particularly like him but I think he is a good manager and will eventually end up at a top job. We could do a lot worse to be honest. But that's just my opinion.

 

I think that with the exception of Young and (maybe) Downing, we have better players in those positions than O'Neil has. Yet people want to get rid of Benitez because of his "poor transfer record"????

 

*Just a general point - not aimed at you.

[navbasi]

Is Martin O'Neill all he is cracked up to be? - Gabriele Marcotti

 

I have to confess I don't understand the O'Neill phenomenon. Maybe it's my fault. I don't think he plays outstanding, innovative football. I do think he sets out his teams in a well-organised counter-attacking system and generally gets them to execute his game plan very well. But so do others.

 

I don't think he's particularly shrewd or creative in the transfer market. By my reckoning, since arriving at Villa Park, his club have spent more money than any other team in the Premier League (£88 million in net terms) with the exception of Manchester City. And, after all that expense, Villa will probably finish somewhere between fifth and seventh which basically equates to the club punching its weight.

 

Take a quick look at history. O'Neill finished 11th in his first season and sixth the last two years. The much maligned David O'Leary took Villa to fifth place in 2003-04. That was his first season at the club and he took over a side which had finished just three points above relegation the previous year. In the seven seasons between 1995 and 2002, Villa finished fourth, fifth, seventh, sixth, sixth, eighth and eighth, while winning the League Cup in 1996. The guys managing Villa in those years were Brian Little and John Gregory (with a bit of Graham Taylor thrown in). Neither Little nor Gregory (let alone O'Leary) are spoken of in the same glowing terms as O'Neill. And yet they achieved what they achieved without the massive investment from Randy Lerner, but with the rather more cautious Doug Ellis at the helm.

 

I fail to see what in his results at Aston Villa suggests he's any different from his peers who achieved comparable results, like Harry Redknapp (with a comparable budget) or David Moyes (with a smaller budget and smaller wage bill).

 

Further muddying the waters - and, again, it's probably just me - is the fact that I don't understand what his transfer strategy is. Since arriving at Villa he has only bought players from British clubs, with three exceptions: John Carew, reserve goalkeeper Brad Guzan and Moustapha Salifou (who is 26 and has yet to start a league game). It has been a pattern throughout his career. At Celtic, in five seasons he brought in three players from abroad: Bobo Balde and Joos Valgaeren who were pretty good and Michael Herbet, who never played a single league game for the club. Now, you obviously don't need to buy players from abroad to be a good manager. But the fact that he has bought just six in nearly nine seasons is a bit of a head-scratcher.

 

Unless he's somehow prejudiced against them (and I don't think he is), it suggests his scouting network and decision-making maybe isn't what it should be. Instead, he's bought British players, mostly young ones, for which he's been widely praised. But again, it's not as if he's unearthed gems, signing some teenage left back from Colchester who then goes on to become the next Stuart Pearce or an underrated striker from Reading whose career he helps get back on track. Most of his British signings are fairly obvious ones - well-known players at market prices, whether it's Stewart Downing or Ashley Young or James Milner. There's no great nous or imagination there, it's basically a case of bringing in brand names. And paying accordingly for the privilege.

 

He's supposed to be some kind of guru to young players, but, in fact, he's given league debuts to just four home-grown players in four seasons. One of them, Isaiah Osbourne, is now on loan at Middlesbrough. The other three - Ciaran Clark, Marc Albrighton and Nathan Delfouneso - have between them started a single league game this season and played less than 300 minutes between them. He's meant to be methodical and clear-thinking, but then he signed three quarters of his starting back four (Stephen Warnock, Richard Dunne and James Collins) in the last hours of the transfer window. Which actually doesn't suggest much of a plan at all.

 

What you're left with is his results. Which, as stated above, are good but not exceptional. Three SPL titltes, three Scottish FA Cups and a League Cup in five years. But, of course, that was at Celtic. Gordon Strachan, his successor, also won three league titles, as well as a Scottish FA Cup and two League Cups, and he did it in four years. You don't see Strachan mentioned in the same breath as Sir Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough do you? And, yes, he did take Celtic to the Uefa Cup final. (But then Steve McClaren also took Middlesbrough to a Uefa Cup final).

 

O'Neill strikes me, ultimately, as someone who does the job to the level you would expect, given the resources at his disposal. Nothing less, nothing more. When you have a net spend of £88 million over four years, a top six finish is the least you can expect. We'll never know, of course, but one would imagine that, say, David Moyes might have attained comparable heights if he'd had £88 million to spend, instead of the roughly £20 million net spend he's had to work with since O'Neill's arrival. Who knows? Maybe some of the folks further down the food chain would have as well. Heck, maybe even Brian Little and John Gregory.

 

Would he have been more successful than, say Rafa Benitez at Liverpool or Wenger at Arsenal? Maybe, maybe not. But, while I can imagine an argument for why he would do worse, I have yet to hear a cogent argument for why he would definitely have done better. (I'm all ears, BTW. Though, of course, I accept that it's mere conjecture, we'll probably never know).

 

One more thing. Lansley's article mentions suggestions that O'Neill is under pressure because Lerner, Villa's owner, is unwilling to make further large investments in the club. If that's the case, it's more than understandable. You spend big, you get the players you want and then you work on making them play well together as a team.

 

O'Neill has succeeded in doing so with Young and Milner, now it's up to him to make it work with the others. But now comes the real test of whether he really is a special manager or just another "good" manager who suceeeds when he's awash with money. Now we'll find out what he can do. Provided, of course, the unconfirmed rumours are wholly false and he does decide to stick around, even with a switched off tap.

[Kennys_spell]

Yep. I'm adding that to very much make the point that it is my opinion and I'm not speaking for others.

 

I think Hiddinks history points to regular failure once at a bigger club, and O'Neill, for me, is not going to win us a title, and may possibly challenge for 4th, but if we are to change manager then I want someone who will challenge for the title (I'm assuming under new owners as, again in my opinion, I don't think any manager anywhere will challenge for the title under the current ownership).

 

Is exactly right and anything else is just distraction until we get rid of these two.

[The 5th Benitel]

I think that with the exception of Young and (maybe) Downing, we have better players in those positions than O'Neil has. Yet people want to get rid of Benitez because of his "poor transfer record"????

 

*Just a general point - not aimed at you.

 

I think in terms of players he can realistically get MoN does really well. I dont think he's up to much tactically although, 7-1s aside, he does seem to be good at motivating players and getting the best out of him.

 

I wouldn't really want him here. I dont think he's as bad a cunt as people make out though. He's one of the few managers who do just speak their minds and you cant question his passion for the game.