Klopp: Transition of the squad is necessary

[dockers_strike]

Unless Jurgen was going to be really ruthless and I mean really ruthless, it seems a stretch to me that he would dump his captain, vice captain, fabinho and anyone else all in the summer especially as they contributed to winning 2 trophies and within a whisker of the 2 biggest.

 

Ox would be an easy pick from the midfielders with many to jib off but that still leaves the aforementioned trio untouched. Curtis Jones has never filled me with confidence he can kick on to be the class of player we need.

 

Jib Joe and Joel? We'd be in a difficult position right now with Virgil's injury if we had. Who'd be a football manager, eh? I know I wouldnt.

 

 

 

[stringvest]

14 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Unless Jurgen was going to be really ruthless and I mean really ruthless, it seems a stretch to me that he would dump his captain, vice captain, fabinho and anyone else all in the summer especially as they contributed to winning 2 trophies and within a whisker of the 2 biggest.

 

Ox would be an easy pick from the midfielders with many to jib off but that still leaves the aforementioned trio untouched. Curtis Jones has never filled me with confidence he can kick on to be the class of player we need.

 

Jib Joe and Joel? We'd be in a difficult position right now with Virgil's injury if we had. Who'd be a football manager, eh? I know I wouldnt.

 

 

 

He surely has to jib Henderson and Fabinho.  They might have been involved in trophy-winning sides, but they can't contribute anything, as we've seen several times already this season.    Keep Milner, as he can actually still contribute and he sets a good example to the kids.  Ox and Jones I'd see as casualties too.  Bring in 4 midfielders, 2 of top quality, 1 experienced player to plug the odd gap, and 1 youngster with genuine potential rather than the stuff we cling onto.  We're probably carrying 1 to many B-list CBs.   

[Jairzinho]

2 hours ago, SlugTrail said:

His form fell off the cliff many months before, infact I'm starting to think that Mo was kidnapped at the AFCON and replaced with a shit lookalike.

 

Yeah, true. 

 

2 hours ago, SlugTrail said:

I'm also of the opinion that Trent and Mo need to get their 2019/2020 haircuts back.

 

And agreed. 

 

1 hour ago, stringvest said:

He surely has to jib Henderson and Fabinho.  They might have been involved in trophy-winning sides, but they can't contribute anything, as we've seen several times already this season.    Keep Milner, as he can actually still contribute and he sets a good example to the kids.  Ox and Jones I'd see as casualties too.  Bring in 4 midfielders, 2 of top quality, 1 experienced player to plug the odd gap, and 1 youngster with genuine potential rather than the stuff we cling onto.  We're probably carrying 1 to many B-list CBs.   

 

The problem is that we aren't going to sign four central midfielders in a year, and it probably isn't a good idea anyway. 

 

I would prioritise getting rid of Keita, Chamberlain and Henderson. The first two are out of contract anyway. Keep Jones in the hope he can improve, and Fabinho in the hope we can rediscover his form. They would be fifth and sixth choice anyway. I have zero faith in either things happening but we can't bin five midfielders in one window. 

 

Sign two, 21-26 year old, midfielders who can run. Keep Thiago and Bajcetic, and the two aforementioned. Jones and Fabinho can go the following season if, as expected, they don't improve/rediscover their form. 

 

Elliott and Carvalho can be loaned out (neither are midfielders anyway, really). 

 

Milner I'd probably keep, but much prefer seeing him at right back than central midfield. However, he still has some use for the last 10/15 minutes of games, and his mentality is of obvious benefit to the club. 

 

What I expect to happen is that only Keita and Chamberlain will leave, we'll spend the summer chasing midfielders that end up signing for clubs with more chance of winning major honours than us (and will probably pay them more), and only ending up signing one central midfielder. And it won't be Bellingham. 

 

Like most of the last few windows, more than anything else, having given up on the owners putting up enough money for anything other than a Klopp miracle, I just want Klopp to be ruthless. As others have said, view this summer like it's his first at the club. What a player did for us five years ago, as cold hearted as it is, should have zero bearing on whether or not they line up for us in the future. 

[DJLJ]

There is a lot of homegrown players in the midfield, so if we get rid of them say Elliott and Ox and Milner and Hendo and Jones, Carvalho too is homegrown? Then we need many English players in and they normally cost even more than similar skilled players from other leagues. Otherwise we need to promote from the younger ones, any good midfielders there that could make the step up?

[Poor Scouser T]

I think we are lumping everything on Bellingham including  Klopps rep. Trouble ahead if we fuck it up.

[aws]

I think there’s a good chance Morton will come into consideration for next season.He seems to be doing well at Championship level. Either that or we’ll sell him. I think we’ll just be bringing in two to replace Keita and Ox.  

[Dave D]

If ruthlessness is the name of the game then bin Thiago. A midfield that was once built around energy is now pedestrian and lethargic.

 

Are his strengths-

 

Running- no

Goals-no

Assists- no

Set pieces- no

Leadership- no

 

Has some ability to drop the shoulder now and then and play some long passes but if he is seen as a senior midfielder in a Klopp team (this is key) then we will never get back to what we were.

 

 

 

[Razoray]

Including Bajcetic, Doak and Ramsay, we have a 1st team squad of 30 players.

We could trim that to 25 next season and still have enough. 

If we need to sell some to generate funds - and we all presume that is the case - then along with Ox and Keita, we could sell Kelleher, Phillips, Matip, Fabinho, Carvalho and Jones. 

Matip, just because he is on the wane, we need to bring the age profile down and might get 10m or so for him this year.

Jones needs a move, can't stay fit and has 4 or 5 midfielders, plus the 2 new midfielders (Bellingham and another hopefully), ahead of him. 

Carvalho is another one that probably needs to move. Maybe a loan would be better but he is at the back of the queue at the moment and has no real position. Even if we played 4231, he would be 5th or 6th choice there. 

These could bring in up to £95m plus big wage savings. 

 

 

Purchase a cheap 2nd choice keeper, a CB and 2 midfielders and the squad is transformed, in my opinion, with an outlay of around £210m. 

 

Allison 

Trent Konate VvD Robertson 

Bellingham Bajcetic Thiago

Salah Nunez Diaz

 

Keeper

Ramsay CB Gomez Tsimikas 

Elliott Henderson CM

Gakpo Firmino Jota

 

With Adrian Milner Morton Doak also. 

 

Obviously this isn't definitive but just shows that we are only 3 or 4 players away from improving and reenergising the squad but also  bringing the age profile way down. Only 6 or 7 of the above are on the wrong side of 30 and just 3 would be 1st team regulars. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

12 hours ago, sir roger said:

Was the slump inevitable ? I don't think so.

I think we've had a perfect storm of a squad in transition, a less-than-perfect handling of that transition, a season (and pre-season) disrupted by the World Cup and mountains of injuries.

[sir roger]

All true, but I think the biggest issue has been our gradual move away from buying players we require, to buying players only if they look like a 'good deal'.

[Bjornebye]

Any talk of jibbing Allison, Trent, Van Dijk, or Diaz can get in the bin. 

[Barrington Womble]

On 25/01/2023 at 14:02, Red74 said:

Can see Salah defo going in the summer. Maybe Gakpo was brought in now to have him settled for next season 

gakpo was brought in now to stop him going to salford. 

[Kevin D]

On 25/01/2023 at 04:24, TLW said:

Jurgen Klopp has outlined one of the major reasons why he signed a new deal to stay with Liverpool was to guide them through a new phase.

 

 

 

“I’m not saying it’s the biggest challenge, but it’s a challenge, and it was one of the main reasons why I signed a new contract because I knew it’s necessary.

 

“It will not go overnight and imagine the situation now with another coach in the chair. I would be somewhere on holiday, and everybody would shout my name ‘with him it would not have happened!’

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

View full article

 

Speak for yourself.

 

I’d be out dancing in the streets.

[VladimirIlyich]

On 26/01/2023 at 14:11, Barrington Womble said:

gakpo was brought in now to stop him going to salford. 

I think that's only fair to anybody who is likely to end up in Salford.

[Barrington Womble]

9 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I think that's only fair to anybody who is likely to end up in Salford.

I spoke to a bird recently who lived and grew up in Salford and didn't realise it was a city in its own right. And when I told her Manchester United was in Salford and not Manchester, it was like I'd just told her her Ma was a fella. 

[an tha]

18 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I spoke to a bird recently who lived and grew up in Salford and didn't realise it was a city in its own right. And when I told her Manchester United was in Salford and not Manchester, it was like I'd just told her her Ma was a fella. 

Is the toilet in Salford though?

 

I always thought it is in Trafford which is a borough in it's own right (still not city of Manchester mind!) not Salford which is obviously a city itself - it borders Salford but isn't Salford.

 

That has always been my understanding.

[Barrington Womble]

12 hours ago, an tha said:

Is the toilet in Salford though?

 

I always thought it is in Trafford which is a borough in it's own right (still not city of Manchester mind!) not Salford which is obviously a city itself - it borders Salford but isn't Salford.

 

That has always been my understanding.

I thought it was in the city of Salford, but I could be wrong on that. 

 

In fact a quick Google suggests I am wrong.....

 

It was in the Municipal Borough of Stretford until 1974. In 1974, as a result of the Local Government Act 1972, it became part of the Metropolitan Borough of Trafford in Greater Manchester.

[an tha]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I thought it was in the city of Salford, but I could be wrong on that. 

 

In fact a quick Google suggests I am wrong.....

 

It was in the Municipal Borough of Stretford until 1974. In 1974, as a result of the Local Government Act 1972, it became part of the Metropolitan Borough of Trafford in Greater Manchester.

Thought so aye

[Kevin D]

Manchester United are cunts.

[sir roger]

If we aren't getting any new players, at least we could get a flamethrower for Jurgen to start the transition before summer.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jan/29/liverpool-lost-in-transition-but-jurgen-klopp-could-be-their-golden-thread#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16750385299741&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffootball%2Fblog%2F2023%2Fjan%2F29%2Fliverpool-lost-in-transition-but-jurgen-klopp-could-be-their-golden-thread 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 25/01/2023 at 21:45, Dave D said:

If ruthlessness is the name of the game then bin Thiago. A midfield that was once built around energy is now pedestrian and lethargic.

 

Are his strengths-

 

Running- no

Goals-no

Assists- no

Set pieces- no

Leadership- no

 

Has some ability to drop the shoulder now and then and play some long passes but if he is seen as a senior midfielder in a Klopp team (this is key) then we will never get back to what we were.

 

 

 

He's currently the only senior midfielder worthy of a start.

[sir roger]

I really like Thiago and wouldn't countenance selling him,  but he needs to stop giving the ball away as often and as casually as he is lately. He doesn't seem to have got the 'compact' memo.

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I really like Thiago and wouldn't countenance selling him,  but he needs to stop giving the ball away so often and so casually as he is lately. He doesn't seem to have got the 'compact' memo.

 

 

He just doesn't seem able to carry form for more than a couple of games running. He also doesnt seem to have the inspirational quality to make others around him raise their game like lesser players such as Hendo and Milner.

[Barrington Womble]

I probably shouldn't weigh into a thiago debate, but I think his passing has been sloppy since he joined. That's not to say he doesn't have a high % pass rate before anyone bombs out the stats. It's just the amount of time he plays careless, unpressured passes to the opposition. It's deadly when he does it and I really don't quite get it. It's like he doesn't realise it's a game situation and he's just showing off with his mates. 

 

The problem we have, you could say about most of the midfield for one reason or another you could happily see the back of them. I'm genuinely not arsed about any of them, but we can't swap 8 midfielders in a summer. And if we do the obvious 3 for 3 this summer and the 3 incoming can actually get on the pitch and do a job, it should transform us. It can take some pressure of Elliot and Bajcetic. Allow thiago and Henderson to manage their minutes more. It can get fabinho in the departure lounge and Jones fighting to stay out of it.