Russia v Ukraine

[Gnasher]

2 hours ago, SasaS said:

I will try, thank you.

I have honestly no clue how your brain works and what are you arguing for or against anymore, it looks like a list of inanely constructed straw man arguments. Most of the links you post I have already seen, as I regularly check them ( I even told you so, several times) as well as many others. I (try to) argue with your points, like about the fighting spirit of the Ukrainian army, which was, contrary to what your kept arguing, still strong, considering the situation, which is the overall impression of most observers and which even the sources you linked confirmed.

 

 

 

You mentioned the effectiveness of sanctions yesterday if I'm not mistaken?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

 

 

Meanwhile;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-raises-interest-rates-to-25-in-first-increase-since-russian-invasion

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, ManéMan said:

The Russians are running out of ammo

They are retreating 

The Ukrainians are winning 

Snake Island 

The rouble is collapsing

The economy too

The Chinese are supplying weapons 

They are using chemical weapons 

They're 45 minutes from doing so

Party gate 

Only the Russians are liars

 

What does that have to do with me?

[SasaS]

12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

You mentioned the effectiveness of sanctions yesterday if I'm not mistaken?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

 

 

Meanwhile;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-raises-interest-rates-to-25-in-first-increase-since-russian-invasion

I mentioned something like people shoud decide if they are for/against sanctions because they are too harsh/don't work.

 

What are the articles you read and then linked here saying?

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I mentioned something like people shoud decide if they are for/against sanctions because they are too harsh/don't work.

 

What are the articles you read and then linked here saying?

Similar. I'm all for targeted sanctions but I believe widespread economic sanctions could prove self defeating.

[Captain Turdseye]

Guardian Long Read about how Germany became so dependent on Russian oil, gas and coal. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/germany-dependence-russian-energy-gas-oil-nord-stream?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, SasaS said:

If they now had 300 to 400 modern tube artillery pieces with enough shells already firing and supported by a hundred modern rocket launchers suppressing Russian artillery, Moscow would be busy demanding security guarantees for when they withdraw. Tens of thousands of lives that will be lost would have been saved. This way it will just drag on for months until Russia finally admits it cannot win, an ambulance comes to take away the lunatics in those panel shows and someone finds a way to get rid of Putin.  

 

Yeah it could've gone better for Ukraine with earlier weapons, not sure if it would've changed a lot though. And I sometimes wonder if it dragging on is half the point, so that the constant weapons shipments are making money for weapons corps as Russia's military is gradually weakened.

 

Also, I'm not sure if either side can win this? While there's people in Ukraine prepared to fight and leaders ready to supply weapons it could just carry on for ages, and there's no sign I can see that Ukraine are turning any tide in Donbas.

 

I really have no idea how this ends. Maybe the term "frozen conflict" is one that will apply for a while yet even if the fighting does stop soon.

[ManéMan]

The US/UK are sending a new weapon on a weekly basis that's supposed to be a game changer but unfortunately not living up to the hype. The only worthwhile kit has been the Turkish drones.

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah it could've gone better for Ukraine with earlier weapons, not sure if it would've changed a lot though. And I sometimes wonder if it dragging on is half the point, so that the constant weapons shipments are making money for weapons corps as Russia's military is gradually weakened.

 

Also, I'm not sure if either side can win this? While there's people in Ukraine prepared to fight and leaders ready to supply weapons it could just carry on for ages, and there's no sign I can see that Ukraine are turning any tide in Donbas.

 

I really have no idea how this ends. Maybe the term "frozen conflict" is one that will apply for a while yet even if the fighting does stop soon.

Well, this time is different than 2014/15, Russia made a fatal mistake of attacking all of Ukraine and forcing them into an existential fight.

 

Last time, they have several failed mobilization rounds and much weaker army to begin with. This time, the problem is how soon they can train and properly arm additional personnel.

 

They have still not received half of what is in the works. We have yet to see the state of Russian forces, what would they have left after the Donbas offensive.

[cochyn]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah it could've gone better for Ukraine with earlier weapons, not sure if it would've changed a lot though. And I sometimes wonder if it dragging on is half the point, so that the constant weapons shipments are making money for weapons corps as Russia's military is gradually weakened.

 

Also, I'm not sure if either side can win this? While there's people in Ukraine prepared to fight and leaders ready to supply weapons it could just carry on for ages, and there's no sign I can see that Ukraine are turning any tide in Donbas.

 

I really have no idea how this ends. Maybe the term "frozen conflict" is one that will apply for a while yet even if the fighting does stop soon.

 

I suspect the Allied MO is to make Russia bleed out slowly until it decides to cut its losses. A wounded Russia is still an adversary whereas a defeated Russia (a la Germany in 1945) becomes the world's problem and diminishes the need for NATO...

[polymerpunkah]

Russia is getting it's ass kicked.

 

Forced back from Kyiv, kicked out of Kharkov, etc.; the only way Putin can capture territory is to destroy it.

 

What a monumentally stupid cunt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cochyn]

2 minutes ago, polymerpunkah said:

Russia is getting it's ass kicked.

 

Forced back from Kyiv, kicked out of Kharkov, etc.; the only way Putin can capture territory is to destroy it.

 

What a monumentally stupid cunt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was talk of a retreat from Kherson area back to Crimea as well yesterday. Not sure how that's going...

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, cochyn said:

 

I suspect the Allied MO is to make Russia bleed out slowly until it decides to cut its losses. A wounded Russia is still an adversary whereas a defeated Russia (a la Germany in 1945) becomes the world's problem and diminishes the need for NATO...

Hav'nt got that luxury of time The west is heading towards economic disaster, we've just had a 10 billion pound bailout. The Allied leaders could find themselves out on their arse if our economies go down the pan.

[cochyn]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

Hav'nt got that luxury of time The west is heading towards economic disaster, we've just had a 10 billion pound bailout. The Allied leaders could find themselves out on their arse if our economies go down the pan.

Really?

[Gnasher]

Just now, cochyn said:

Really?

We've just been forced into a bailout due to high fuel prices. Inflation is at its highest level for a generation and the economic forecasts are dire.

[cochyn]

We have an inflationary 'hump' caused by pent-up demand far outstripping supply hobbled in a post-pandemic period. As for gas prices? Wholesale gas is back to June 2021 prices.  OT I guess, but the banking system is strong, liquidity is generally good it's just consumer confidence is taking a knock probably past Q3 this year. 

[SasaS]

I think West's delay in Ukraine is also due to constant changing of objectives. Also, it is probably an organizational challenge.

 

I hear training has apparently already began on the rocket systems, and someone said earlier they were ready in Eastern Europe, just waiting for the official confirmation.

[Gnasher]

52 minutes ago, cochyn said:

We have an inflationary 'hump' caused by pent-up demand far outstripping supply hobbled in a post-pandemic period. As for gas prices? Wholesale gas is back to June 2021 prices.  OT I guess, but the banking system is strong, liquidity is generally good it's just consumer confidence is taking a knock probably past Q3 this year. 

Another danger is mass migration from the poorest African countries due to food shortages and starvation. The cost of living crisis could also lead to civil unrest in richer Western countries. The figures will mean little if people can't heat homes and are going without food. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60610537.amp

 

 

America s headlines are not great either.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/05/19/recession-economy-markets/

[Red Phoenix]

9 hours ago, SasaS said:

Well, this time is different than 2014/15, Russia made a fatal mistake of attacking all of Ukraine and forcing them into an existential fight.

 

Last time, they have several failed mobilization rounds and much weaker army to begin with. This time, the problem is how soon they can train and properly arm additional personnel.

 

They have still not received half of what is in the works. We have yet to see the state of Russian forces, what would they have left after the Donbas offensive.

 

It's weird how they started this off, expecting to go in and take over the country like they did. All those forces they had gathered outside Kyiv for no reason in the end didn't do them any good along with other stuff. If they'd have focused on Donbas from the off maybe they'd not be in such a state months later like this.

 

8 hours ago, cochyn said:

I suspect the Allied MO is to make Russia bleed out slowly until it decides to cut its losses. A wounded Russia is still an adversary whereas a defeated Russia (a la Germany in 1945) becomes the world's problem and diminishes the need for NATO...

 

The aim definitely looks like weaking them over time agreed. Austin basically said it at one point too : Pentagon chief’s Russia remarks show shift in US’s declared aims in Ukraine

[Red Phoenix]

18 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

There is no path to peace in that situation, surely you can understand that?

Imagine asking in 1942 "if Allied forces are unable to stop the Nazis from gassing millions of Jews to death, what is the path to peace?"

 

Sorry missed this, found it when looking for something else.

 

I don't think it's much use comparing Russia trying to take Donbas to Nazis gassing millions of Jews but I've said myself that I don't know how this ends either. I'm not pretending I do.

[Red Phoenix]

19 hours ago, SasaS said:

Update from Tom Cooper.

 

Germany dragging their feet looking for the slowest possible way to provide military assistance to Ukraine, Ukrainian artillery hits back and helps to stabilize some of the critical points, Russians apparently running out of steam a bit.

 

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-30-31-may-1-june-2022-8c56d475a543

 

I think this is a bit overly optimistic from Tom :

 

Quote

As said in my last summary: they run out of steam. As so often by now, the RFA and Separatists have suffered such losses, they lack troops and equipment to keep on pushing.

 

From the latest MoD update :

 

Quote

Russia is now achieving tactical success in the Donbas. Russian forces have generated and maintained momentum and currently appear to hold the initiative over Ukrainian opposition.

Russia controls over 90% of Luhansk Oblast and is likely to complete control in the next two weeks. Russia has achieved these recent tactical successes at significant resource cost, and by concentrating force and fires on a single part of the overall campaign.

 

Guardian updates

 

Ukrainians seem to have done well stopping them from going further west towards Bakhmut and taking that highway that connects to Lysychansk (as Tom described), but I think they'll just end up moving north towards Lysychansk instead from the Popasna area. Not pretending to be a military expert, just seems like a logical step for them as they try to get the rest of Luhansk then prepare for heading back down towards Kramatorsk.

[Gnasher]

Haha, Russian state media are really worried about these American HIMARs missile systems.

 

 

[SasaS]

100 days of war.

 

Oryx website which collects both sides visually confirmed losses is now at 2,100 Russian amour (over 750 tanks, and I added armoured personnel carriers, infantry and armoured fighting vehicles). Overall, over 4,000 pieces of equipment.

 

If you exclude aircrafts and ships, and put each vehicle at about 50 meters of space taken up in  a column, this column would stretch for over 200 kilometres, if you add equipment likely lost without visual confirmation, that is probably well over 200 miles. There is also a shorter but equally impressive Ukrainian column.

 

That must have been some battle.

[Red Phoenix]

Quote

Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, denied Moscow was preventing Ukrainian ports from exporting grain, claiming that “no one is stopping it."

Putin said:

"If someone wants to solve the problem of exporting Ukrainian grain - please, the easiest way is through Belarus. No one is stopping it. But for this you have to lift sanctions from Belarus."

 

 

Guardian updates

 

Yep, you read that right. Nobody is stopping the grain from leaving Ukraine's ports so the fastest route, especially to places like Africa, is obviously though Belarus.

 

Clown show.

[Numero Veinticinco]

21 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Guardian updates

 

Yep, you read that right. Nobody is stopping the grain from leaving Ukraine's ports so the fastest route, especially to places like Africa, is obviously though Belarus.

 

Clown show.

Indeed it is. You have to wonder why Ukraine, in peacetime, was shipping grain via sea to areas it can reach by sea instead of driving it away into another country that’s further away. Good one, Putes. Good one. Trust me, nobody is stopping grain. Vlad the Inhaler. 

[cochyn]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Guardian updates

 

Yep, you read that right. Nobody is stopping the grain from leaving Ukraine's ports so the fastest route, especially to places like Africa, is obviously though Belarus.

 

Clown show.

All the while the cunt is hawking a shipload of stolen Ukrainian wheat to his mate Al Assad in Syria after being blocked from every other port on the Med. despicable shite.