Russia v Ukraine

[SasaS]

 

Lavrov's face is made for a flying shoe to hit him.

[polymerpunkah]

Jesus was spot on (if a little wordy):

 

Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?’

[Numero Veinticinco]

8 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah that's why when you click through to the article it says "Plan to ship grain out of Ukraine dealt blow due to mines" and not "Plan to ship grain out of Ukraine dealt blow by Russian sea mines" instead. Honest change from the the earlier headline obviously. Not like The Guardian would ever have any agenda on the go.

How dare they suggest that Russia illegally invaded a sovereign European state, slaughtering its citizen, shelling towns and cities to rubble after lying about their troop movement on the boarder, block of the Black Sea and planting mines alone when all they did was illegally invaded a sovereign European state, slaughtering its citizen, shelling towns and cities to rubble after lying about their troop movement on the boarder, block of the Black Sea and planting mines in addition to Ukraine's defensive mines. This is such an injustice to Russia. 

[Red Phoenix]

6 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

How dare they suggest that Russia illegally invaded a sovereign European state, slaughtering its citizen, shelling towns and cities to rubble after lying about their troop movement on the boarder, block of the Black Sea and planting mines alone when all they did was illegally invaded a sovereign European state, slaughtering its citizen, shelling towns and cities to rubble after lying about their troop movement on the boarder, block of the Black Sea and planting mines in addition to Ukraine's defensive mines. This is such an injustice to Russia. 

 

Yeah it's a sovereign state, I'm sure that in the US Biden and Nuland agree on that. And I'm sure feeding the world and avoiding a food crisis has been at the front of their minds all along. We've had Russia Russia Russia for most of the last decade but the invasion confirms everything, our western leaders have been innocent all along and The Guardian have covered it all with truth as the main focus.

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

That's all Eastern European women seem to do, fucking pose. I've been on holiday where there were loads of Russians and the women just pose for pictures all day, lounging round bending over in bikinis all with bodies to die for while there meat head fellas blank them and just sit in the shade getting rat arsed. 

 

Fucking ace 

They are saying that may not have been Odesa. Or even Ukraine.

 

But I get your point.

[Numero Veinticinco]

13 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah it's a sovereign state, I'm sure that in the US Biden and Nuland agree on that. And I'm sure feeding the world and avoiding a food crisis has been at the front of their minds all along. We've had Russia Russia Russia for most of the last decade but the invasion confirms everything, our western leaders have been innocent all along and The Guardian have covered it all with truth as the main focus.

Can you not see how this makes you look, mate? Seriously, it's perfectly legitimate to have concerns about the West's foreign policy, but you're off on some weird tangent in an attempt to somehow deflect attention from what is the clear crime of Russia. You sound like 'yeah, but Saddam' crew. It's not a good look. You might think you're somehow enlightened and other's just can't see the full picture, but many people can see the full picture and don't obsess over the Guardian's headline over the actual crimes that Russia have undertaken. 

[Red Phoenix]

10 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Can you not see how this makes you look, mate? Seriously, it's perfectly legitimate to have concerns about the West's foreign policy, but you're off on some weird tangent in an attempt to somehow deflect attention from what is the clear crime of Russia. You sound like 'yeah, but Saddam' crew. It's not a good look. You might think you're somehow enlightened and other's just can't see the full picture, but many people can see the full picture and don't obsess over the Guardian's headline over the actual crimes that Russia have undertaken. 

 

It's not legitimate to have concerns about the West in this thread, hasn't been since it started.

 

I'm not interested in carrying this on, there's a food crisis that's driven by Russia, Ukraine and western sanctions. Turkey, a NATO member, has offered to help, not good enough. I'm not bothered about taking sides with anyone and would prefer to see the food get out of Odesa, that's it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Red Phoenix said:

 

It's not legitimate to have concerns about the West in this thread, hasn't been since it started.

 

I'm not interested carrying this on, there's a food crisis that's driven by Russia, Ukraine and western sanctions. Turkey, a NATO member, has offered to help, not good enough. I'm not bothered about taking sides with anyone and would prefer to see the food get out of Odesa, that's it.

It's caused by Russia. See ya. 

[Red Phoenix]

Just now, Numero Veinticinco said:

It's caused by Russia. See ya. 

 

OK.

[SasaS]

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1534905021875331074

[Red Phoenix]

26 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

I hope that doesn't happen obviously, even if they turned out to be literal neo-Nazis not into the death penalty. Fucking stupid. I've seen on some accounts that they're going to try and use that for some type of prisoner exchange, hope that happens instead.

 

This is the forest to left of that previous map I posted (mad that some of the Russians and/or their supporters are referring to it as Sherwood Forest too.):

 

 

They've now crossed the river according to several sources as well, in the area to the right of that image.

 

Whoever's defending that Bakhmut highway is doing a fucking amazing job too, Russians still having no luck there.

[Red Phoenix]

These are supposed to be recent images from "Sherwood Forest" near Bohorodychne (north of Slovyansk). They were linked on a pro-Russia twitter account, not linking here and having people going on at me. I don't "follow" any of these war accounts on twitter, just usually check on a handful of them I have bookmarked, mixture of pro-Russian (they often have info on Russian advances earlier) and pro-Ukraine.

 

 

[SasaS]

29 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I hope that doesn't happen obviously, even if they turned out to be literal neo-Nazis not into the death penalty. Fucking stupid. I've seen on some accounts that they're going to try and use that for some type of prisoner exchange, hope that happens instead.

 

I think all three of them are marines, regular armed forces under contract, Aislin had previously been with Kurdish YPG in Syria apparently. It's clearly a show trial which may not have actual consequences but still, it is incredible that Russia invades Ukraine and then they put members of Ukrainian forces on trial, in their puppet state, because they were members of Ukrainian forces. And sentence them to death.

[Leyton388]

Another breach of the Geneva convention. 

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

I think all three of them are marines, regular armed forces under contract, Aislin had previously been with Kurdish YPG in Syria apparently. It's clearly a show trial which may not have actual consequences but still, it is incredible that Russia invades Ukraine and then they put members of Ukrainian forces on trial, in their puppet state, because they were members of Ukrainian forces. And sentence them to death.

 

Yeah it's fucked up, even if it does turn out that it doesn't happen to go to that point in the first place is insane and it doesn't bode well for others like Azov members and so on (I might not be a supporter of Azov neo-Nazis but don't wish the death penalty on anyone.) With some luck somebody can talk some sense into them and make sure they stay alive.

[SasaS]

7 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah it's fucked up, even if it does turn out that it doesn't happen to go to that point in the first place is insane and it doesn't bode well for others like Azov members and so on (I might not be a supporter of Azov neo-Nazis but don't wish the death penalty on anyone.) With some luck somebody can talk some sense into them and make sure they stay alive.

 

Don't think many of them would describe themselves as neo-Nazis anyway.

[Red Phoenix]

8 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Don't think many of them would describe themselves as neo-Nazis anyway.

 

Maybe not, but I'm definitely going to try and avoid talking about them if possible as I'll probably be arguing again.

[Red Phoenix]

 

[Red Phoenix]

This could be wrong, but there's some rumours/reports that Russians are here now after crossing the river a couple of days back north of where I marked. So that leaves Majaky further south if they push straight down then they could be at Slovyansk shortly.

 

 

Even if they are actually there though there's a battle that's taking place in the top left of that image apparently (what Russians are calling Sherwood Forest.), so they might not go straight south and instead go towards that and Bohorodychne instead. And there's the forest area next to Sydorove that they might have to focus on as well. Again, that's if these reports are even correct.

[SasaS]

7 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

The problem with such claptrap is that ignores many unpleasant facts and offers no suggestions how does Ukraine win the war outside of battlefield, which is all motivated by the increasing desire in the West to cut costs by appeasing now an almost outright Fascist regime in Russia.

 

All "diplomatic" solutions Ukraine was forced into previously have lead to the loss of territory and culminated in an outright Russian aggression. Why do people think this will not continue if a new "diplomatic" solution is agreed? And what would that solution be? Allow Russia to annex or de facto annex Ukrainian territory it has managed to occupy in the past 3 and a half months, by killing  tens of thousands of people Putin's regime clearly does not care about (nor does he care about his own people, as long as most of the blood is spilt by underclasses from "ethnic" Republics.

 

And what then? Russia will not invade again to finish the job? Even if they don't want to destroy Ukraine as a state, which they absolutely do, they would want to take Odesa, make a land corridor to Transdnistria, they would probably want the area around Kharkiv, maybe even Kharkiv itself.

 

And how would this long term Ukraine victory be achieved, this fantasy South Korea which Russia would in no way try to invade again, through building of a stable prosperous democracy on the basis of a lost war, infrastructure distraction? The West would rush to help financially this rump Ukraine, right? The same West which is now apparently setting the stage for pressing them into admitting defeat because the war cost too much?

 

This is just so stupid and disingenuous. Give them weapons, help them defend themselves. Hawks in Washington? Because some still want to arm Ukraine so it can stand up to Russia now and have a strong army as a deterrent in the future. Of course it would be better for Ukraine if it wouldn't have to fight a long war which would make the country more corrupt and politically centralized and less democratic. But they are not fighting this war because they want to. They were invaded. They will be invaded again if they don't win and build an army or end up with security guarantees as members of a military alliance. And even these guarantees

 

Why do people think Russia invaded in the first place?

 

It is just so infuriating.  Such injustice. Such stupidity. It is what Russia wants, to corrupt, confuse and ultimately fuck West up, destroy security set-up and liberal democracy, or what is left of it, so they can do whatever they want where ever they want and whenever they want. And you will defend it by giving Russia (another) military victory to feed this Fascist regime. Because then they will stop doing it.

[Gnasher]

23 minutes ago, SasaS said:

The problem with such claptrap is that ignores many unpleasant facts and offers no suggestions how does Ukraine win the war outside of battlefield, which is all motivated by the increasing desire in the West to cut costs by appeasing now an almost outright Fascist regime in Russia.

 

"Cut costs" what planet you on? According to the New York Times the yanks are spending 54 billion fucking quid.. The other Western nations have also dipped in generously. We are all at the beginning of a spiralling cost of living crisis through supporting Ukraine in a war which does not actually involve us. Ukraine is losing 10, 000 soldiers a day according to Zelensky. Its OK the amateur generals with stakes in the armament industry being brave from Kent but when a cunt like Henry K say its time to strike deals then maybe it's time to ease up a little. 

23 minutes ago, SasaS said:

All "diplomatic" solutions Ukraine was forced into previously have lead to the loss of territory and culminated in an outright Russian aggression. Why do people think this will not continue if a new "diplomatic" solution is agreed? And what would that solution be? Allow Russia to annex or de facto annex Ukrainian territory it has managed to occupy in the past 3 and a half months, by killing  tens of thousands of people Putin's regime clearly does not care about (nor does he care about his own people, as long as most of the blood is spilt by underclasses from "ethnic" Republics.

 

23 minutes ago, SasaS said:

And what then? Russia will not invade again to finish the job? Even if they don't want to destroy Ukraine as a state, which they absolutely do, they would want to take Odesa, make a land corridor to Transdnistria, they would probably want the area around Kharkiv, maybe even Kharkiv itself.

 

And how would this long term Ukraine victory be achieved, this fantasy South Korea which Russia would in no way try to invade again, through building of a stable prosperous democracy on the basis of a lost war, infrastructure distraction? The West would rush to help financially this rump Ukraine, right? The same West which is now apparently setting the stage for pressing them into admitting defeat because the war cost too much?

 

This is just so stupid and disingenuous. Give them weapons, help them defend themselves. Hawks in Washington? Because some still want to arm Ukraine so it can stand up to Russia now and have a strong army as a deterrent in the future. Of course it would be better for Ukraine if it wouldn't have to fight a long war which would make the country more corrupt and politically centralized and less democratic. But they are not fighting this war because they want to. They were invaded. They will be invaded again if they don't win and build an army or end up with security guarantees as members of a military alliance. And even these guarantees

 

Why do people think Russia invaded in the first place?

 

It is just so infuriating.  Such injustice. Such stupidity. It is what Russia wants, to corrupt, confuse and ultimately fuck West up, destroy security set-up and liberal democracy, or what is left of it, so they can do whatever they want where ever they want and whenever they want. And you will defend it by giving Russia (another) military victory to feed this Fascist regime. Because then they will stop doing it.

 

 

[SasaS]

33 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

"Cut costs" what planet you on? According to the New York Times the yanks are spending 54 billion fucking quid.. The other Western nations have also dipped in generously. We are all at the beginning of a spiralling cost of living crisis through supporting Ukraine in a war which does not actually involve us. Ukraine is losing 10, 000 soldiers a day according to Zelensky. Its OK the amateur generals with stakes in the armament industry being brave from Kent but when a cunt like Henry K say its time to strike deals then maybe it's time to ease up a little. 

 

 

 

The overal economic cost for western economies. What you rant about normally.

 

What deals? West is so stupid. Russia is currently blackmailing the world with blocking grain and sunflower oil supplies, everything it gained in Ukraine will only serve for more geostrategic blackmail, like they buy political influence in countries through energy supplies. It is Putin's main MO.

 

This will never stop, there is no "deal to be struck", it will just be more and more and more. Russia won in Syria, they then moved Wagner to Libya, now they are in Mali. Give them what they want in Ukraine now, tomorrow they will ask for more, there and in Moldova, in Finland. They may decide Georgia is in the way after all. If opposition in Belarus gets rid of Lukashenko, they will invade Belarus, just like their paratroopers moved in to prop up Kazakhstan government during recent riots.  

 

They are building or rebuilding an empire and the West thinks it can get a piece of paper to wave about, bearing Putin's signature.

 

Give Ukraine weapons. Now. Before it's too late.

[polymerpunkah]

The strategy now is the strategy from last century.

 

Make the costs to them, on every front possible, so enormous that eventually their regime topples.

 

Hopefully the people in charge have the stones to carry it out.

 

[TheHowieLama]

Russia's main economic pipeline has already been shut. Seems Europe is fine making this transition a decade faster than would have happened anyway. 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, polymerpunkah said:

The strategy now is the strategy from last century.

 

Make the costs to them, on every front possible, so enormous that eventually their regime topples.

 

Hopefully the people in charge have the stones to carry it out.

 

A more accurate description is the rich people in charge "stones" are the poor peoples money.