Russia v Ukraine

[SasaS]

7 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

There is something else going on : Russia are controlling the sea where the ships need to get through. They've said the grain can pass and we don't know if they're lying or not. Nobody has any proof one way or the other. Ships might get through, they might not.

 

We also have Ukrainian mines at the port. If they're not removed no grain is getting out. There's no ships might get through and they might not about this one I don't think, they're simply not moving if those mines remain.

 

So we can keep blaming Russia but there's not one shred of proof that they're blocking a single grain ship if nobody removes the mines. There's no way around this because there's no ship with grain in it for the Russians to block, the mines prevent the grain ships from moving.

 

That's why it might take Turkey or some other country to step in and help.

We also have basic logic. Who profits from ships not getting through? Who profits from establishing internationally monitored safe naval corridor to and from Odesa port?

[Red Phoenix]

16 minutes ago, SasaS said:

We also have basic logic. Who profits from ships not getting through? Who profits from establishing internationally monitored safe naval corridor to and from Odesa port?

 

Here's some other basic logic : you have a ship at a port, then you have mines. The ship can't move safely if the mines aren't removed. For the ship to move safely the mines have to be removed.

 

I'm not going into all the motives one side or the other has because then this just drags out constantly, fuck that. The grain will either get out or it won't, I'm not carrying on with this when there's no significant news update on what's actually going on.

[DJLJ]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-lawmaker-suggests-kidnapping-nato-defence-minister-ukraine-2022-05-31/

 

War ministers and kidnapping...

 

Quote

LONDON, May 31 (Reuters) - A senior Russian lawmaker has suggested kidnapping a NATO defence minister in Ukraine and bringing them to Moscow for questioning about what "orders" the West has been giving to Kyiv.

Oleg Morozov, first elected to the Russian parliament in 1993 and a member of the dominant United Russia party, said the supply of Western arms to Ukraine posed a direct threat to Russia and might require Moscow to review its military aims.

 

"You know, perhaps it is a fantastical plot that I have brewing ... that in the near future, at some stage, a war minister of some NATO country will go by train to Kyiv to talk with (Ukrainian President Volodymyr) Zelenskiy," Morozov told the "60 Minutes" talk show on Rossiya-1 state TV late on Monday.

"But he would not get there. And would wake up somewhere in Moscow," Morozov said.

"You mean we abduct them?" TV host Olga Skabeyeva, one of the most pro-Kremlin journalists on television, asked with a smile.

 

"Yes. And then we would sort out who gave which order for what, who is responsible for what exactly," Morozov said. "It is not such a mythical picture ... There are new rules in the world now. Let all those war ministers gathering in Kyiv think a little about what it would be like to wake up in Moscow."

Neither Morozov nor Skabeyeva could be reached for comment.

A succession of Western politicians have visited Kyiv to show solidarity with Ukraine - including U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who travelled there in April with Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

 

President Vladimir Putin casts the 97-day-old war as a "special military operation" to disarm Ukraine and halt what he sees as the persecution of Russian-speakers by Ukrainian ultra-nationalists. He also accuses the United States of using Ukraine to threaten Russia through NATO enlargement.

Ukraine and its Western backers say Russia is waging an unprovoked war against a sovereign state which is fighting for its existence.

Russia has repeatedly warned the West that the supply of advanced arms to Ukraine risks escalating the war. Ukraine has called for the West to send more long-range weapons.

 

[SasaS]

7 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Here's some other basic logic : you have a ship at a port, then you have mines. The ship can't move safely if the mines aren't removed. For the ship to move safely the mines have to be removed.

 

I'm not going into all the motives one side or the other has because then this just drags out constantly, fuck that. The grain will either get out or it won't, I'm not carrying on with this when there's no significant news update on what's actually going on.

You are not getting into the motives, because then it becomes clear where the obstacle is.

 

And, if you remove defenses in front of your port, all you have achieved is removed defenses in front of your port. Your point would only make sense if there actually was a convoy of ships which made it through Russian naval blockade with international guarantees of a safe passage back, and then Ukrainians were refusing to let it in their port / clear the mines.

 

 Anyway, I think Ukrainians said something like the mines are not the problem, as most of them are not theirs or something (I know next to nothing about naval warfare, how they get removed etc). Also, grain seems to be flowing already using other routes, to Romania and through Czech Republic to German ports, everywhere where Russians have not destroyed the bridges and substations providing electricity for railways.  So one side is already making huge efforts to get the grain out, other side isn't and has nothing to gain from it.

[Red Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

You are not getting into the motives, because then it becomes clear where the obstacle is.

 

Yeah it's not like I've been aware of possible motives for a while now that could lead to escalation if this drags out and other countries intervened in some way because "Russia are starving the world (but don't mention the mines)".

 

I'll leave you to it.

[SasaS]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah it's not like I've been aware of possible motives for a while now that could lead to escalation if this drags out and other countries intervened in some way because "Russia are starving the world (but don't mention the mines)".

 

I'll leave you to it.

 

Ah, that pesky logic, always in the way, constantly undermining intransigent delusional constructs. 

[Red Phoenix]

On 17/05/2022 at 10:38, Rico1304 said:

Can I volunteer you to do the stock take? Maybe Mane Man could hold your clipboard.  

 

Remember this? Someone else is also bothered now.

 

His name?

 

Jurgen Stock.

 

Quote

Weapons sent to Ukraine will end up in the hands of criminals, Interpol chief warns

Many of the weapons being sent to Ukraine will eventually wind up in criminal hands in Europe and beyond, Interpol's chief has warned.

"The high availability of weapons during the current conflict will result in the proliferation in illicit arms in the post-conflict phase," Jürgen Stock, the secretary general of Interpol, told reporters.

That will only empower organised crime groups that have become increasingly global operations, he said, adding that they were capable of exploiting the chaos created from Russia's bombardments over the past three months.

Stock urged countries to start scrutinising arms-tracking databases.

"Even weapons that are used by the military, heavy weapons, will be available on the criminal market," Stock warned, as US President Joe Biden announced this week that Washington would send more advanced weapons systems to Ukraine.

 

 

4:52pm here, I can't seem to get the link to go back to the right place but maybe it works in other browsers : Telegraph updates

 

[Rico1304]

9 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Remember this? Someone else is also bothered now.

 

His name?

 

Jurgen Stock.

 

 

4:52pm here, I can't seem to get the link to go back to the right place but maybe it works in other browsers : Telegraph updates

 

Look who he blames

 

hesaid, adding that they were capable of exploiting the chaos created from Russia's bombardments over the past three months

 

Youd rather the invasion was a success, just admit it. 

[Red Phoenix]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Look who he blames

 

hesaid, adding that they were capable of exploiting the chaos created from Russia's bombardments over the past three months

 

I'm ok with him blaming whoever he wants, his name is Jurgen Stock.

[SasaS]

If that, indeed, is his real name.

[Red Phoenix]

20 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

You'd rather the invasion was a success, just admit it. 

 

Nice edit. Not even the name Jurgen Stock in response to your stock take post is allowed, has to be a dig at the end.

 

Wait for it : "people are dying, etc." If so I thought Jurgen Stock was funny in response to your post, and if you're taking the line that there's no place for humour here then I think you could be quite busy in a number of other threads on this forum where serious subjects are discussed.

And the invasion is already widely accepted as having failed (from what it was originally supposed to be.)

[Rico1304]

12 minutes ago, SasaS said:

If that, indeed, is his real name.

It’s the worse case of nominative determinism ever. He’s a copper, who’s asking for a database of weapons. Typical RP. 

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Nice edit. Not even the name Jurgen Stock in response to your stock take post is allowed, has to be a dig at the end.

 

Wait for it : "people are dying, etc." If so I thought Jurgen Stock was funny in response to your post, and if you're taking the line that there's no place for humour here then I think you could be quite busy in a number of other threads on this forum where serious subjects are discussed.

And the invasion is already widely accepted to have failed (from what it was originally supposed to be.)

I edited it about 5 seconds after posting.  
 

You posts self evidently point to supporting the Russian position. That’s fucking horrific and marks you out as a fucking cunt. 

[Chairman Meow]

9 hours ago, Anubis said:

Ok, let’s cut through the bollocks.

 

1. There is a load of grain sitting in a Ukrainian port which needs to fly wild and free otherwise food problems are incoming.

 

2. Russia is in situ and ain’t moving, so no amount of “well maybe Russia should…” is relevant, because it’s not happening.

 

3. That makes it incumbent on the rest of us, whether we like it or not, to do something.

 

Thats it. Period. That’s the reality. And all the sniping in the world isn’t going to change that.

 

So, over to our masters… (not Usher, by the way).

Yeah, definitely not Usher, he can't manage the logistics of posting out a fridge magnet. No way he could deal with all that grain. 

[Red Phoenix]

3 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

You posts self evidently point to supporting the Russian position. That’s fucking horrific and marks you out as a fucking cunt. 

 

 

[Rico1304]

52 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

 

The fact you are quoting Glen Fucking Greenwald doesn’t do what you hope it does.  

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

The fact you are quoting Glen Fucking Greenwald doesn’t do what you hope it does.  

 

At some point in the future you might have to take a break from the mindless smearing and insults and ask yourself a question : if Ukrainian forces are unable to remove Russian forces from their territory, what is the path to peace?

[SasaS]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

At some point in the future you might have to take a break from the mindless smearing and insults and ask yourself a question : if Ukrainian forces are unable to remove Russian forces from their territory, what is the path to peace?

Giving Russia whatever they want?

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, SasaS said:

Giving Russia whatever they want?

Keep loading the conveyor belt of death?

 

 

[Gnasher]

20 hours ago, SasaS said:

People should really decide, are sanctions hurting Russia or not, it cannot be both ways. "Sanctions are bad and should be lifted, but they are not working anyway."

BTW, that is a current account surplus, which is most likely boosted by collapsing imports, and that may adversely affect the economy beyond Q1.  

 

With rising inflation and record breaking petrol and fuel costs that question is being turned on its head. The sanctions are hurting us and our economic pain is in its infancy, almost every forecast is apocalyptic. The well off have the resources to ride the rises out, the less well off will take an almighty hit.

 

The Russian people are suffering but they are nothing if not resilient. 

 

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

I'm not sure how I missed this, but here goes. 

16 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

There is something else going on : Russia are controlling the sea where the ships need to get through.

They're not just controlling it, they're blockading it. 

16 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

They've said the grain can pass and we don't know if they're lying or not

Well, we know Dmitry Peskov is a liar and that he lies on behalf of a Russian state that lies about most things. Him saying the grain can pass is about as credible as when he said a couple of months there were no war crimes and that the Russians were trying to bring an end to the fighting in 'days'. Just as he did when he said that 'Russia has never attacked anyone throughout its history' (source). I'd suggest people read this before believing bland statements from this propagandist. If you want to put people's lives at risk based on the word of this proven liar, I'd also suggest you should be on one of the ships. 

 

We've seen a British Intelligence Report say that the blockade isolates Ukrainian trade (source). We've seen the Russians already stop all trade out of the Sea of Azov, yet you're willing to swallow - nay, deepthroat - the words of a Russian liar about allowing grain to pass. Okay. You do you, I guess. 

 

Every death due to lack of grain shipments is blood on the hands of the illegal invaders blockading trade routes and destroying - to rubble in some cases - port cities. I hope the European navies go into the Black Sea and end the blockade.

[SasaS]

Update from Tom Cooper.

 

Germany dragging their feet looking for the slowest possible way to provide military assistance to Ukraine, Ukrainian artillery hits back and helps to stabilize some of the critical points, Russians apparently running out of steam a bit.

 

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-30-31-may-1-june-2022-8c56d475a543

[SasaS]

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Keep loading the conveyor belt of death?

 

 

Interestingly, your journalist boy has now left Ukraine, saying they must win and will win but must be supported by weapons they need, and signing off with All Will Be Ukraine.
 

And
 

"The courage and sheer force of will of the men (and women) I saw on the frontlines amazed me. But they are dying. In their hundreds and thousands, they are dying, being ground down by Russia's war machine. The effects are clear: so many still have the will to fight, but they are exhausted and outgunned."

 

[Gnasher]

24 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Interestingly, your journalist boy has now left Ukraine, saying they must win and will win but must be supported by weapons they need, and signing off with All Will Be Ukraine.
 

And
 

"The courage and sheer force of will of the men (and women) I saw on the frontlines amazed me. But they are dying. In their hundreds and thousands, they are dying, being ground down by Russia's war machine. The effects are clear: so many still have the will to fight, but they are exhausted and outgunned."

 

 

 

Yes and your point being? You keep questioning other posters links. I find it rather odd. The last few journalists I've linked are from an array of backgrounds and hold differing veiws on the conflict yet all have experience of Ukraine and the geopolitical situation in Ukraine/Russia. If you are so mentally fragile that the different viewpoints annoy you I'd suggest you save yourself unnecessary angst by not clicking the links. 

 

Here's one from the States;

 

 

[Ne Moe Imya]

15 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

At some point in the future you might have to take a break from the mindless smearing and insults and ask yourself a question : if Ukrainian forces are unable to remove Russian forces from their territory, what is the path to peace?

There is no path to peace in that situation, surely you can understand that?

Imagine asking in 1942 "if Allied forces are unable to stop the Nazis from gassing millions of Jews to death, what is the path to peace?"