Cancel Culture

[Rico1304]

13 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

With context the quote makes sense.

 

I read the book a while back and it’s about systems being created by white people for white people, consciously or unconsciously, which exclude others. This leads to a sense of superiority, perceived or imperceptible, that ‘I’, a white person, is better as I seem to be getting along better than ‘them’, because of the inherited bias of the existing systems which we ignore.

 

‘We’ created the world for us and feel superior as the system is set up for white supremacy, not in the more severe form you’re thinking of, but the system is inherently bias and in some cases racist. So white supremacy is achieved and we live within that system, either by accident or design.

 

The way to escape this cycle is to first accept it.

 

The books really interesting.

 

 

So if you are accused of being racist what do you say? 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

So if you are accused of being racist what do you say? 

Call them a paedophile? 

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

So if you are accused of being racist what do you say? 

Our oppressors have created a divide and rule situation to entrench distrust between us, we have much more in common with each other than ‘them’. Im living within the structures of a society I didn’t create, where policies and structures have exclude us from fulfilling our potential, but you have suffered much more, so I empathise. I am anti racist and if anything I do feels racist please inform me so I can check my world view and adjust accordingly. I didn’t mean offence. I’m sorry your life has been governed by rules nobody signed up for that benefit a small few, at the exclusion of everybody else. Let’s take parliament by force and redress this bullshit.

 

Something like that

 

[Bruce Spanner]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Fucked that up, dint ya, Spanner.

[Rico1304]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Our oppressors have created a divide and rule situation to entrench distrust between us, we have much more in common with each other than ‘them’. Im living within the structures of a society I didn’t create, where policies and structures have exclude us from fulfilling our potential, but you have suffered much more, so I empathise. I am anti racist and if anything I do feels racist please inform me so I can check my world view and adjust accordingly. I didn’t mean offence. I’m sorry your life has been governed by rules nobody signed up for that benefit a small few, at the exclusion of everybody else. Let’s take parliament by force and redress this bullshit.

 

Something like that

 

Really?  Original sin?  

[Bruce Spanner]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

Really?  Original sin?  

I mean it’s a mouthful, I agree.

 

How about ‘I’m sorry I did something that you think is racist, please explain why so I can understand better as I wasn’t aware.’

 

Its not difficult, Rico.

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I mean it’s a mouthful, I agree.

 

How about ‘I’m sorry I did something that you think is racist, please explain why so I can understand better as I wasn’t aware.’

 

Its not difficult, Rico.

Maybe pat me on the head too. 
 

So any black person, can accuse you or racism at any time, for anything or nothing, and youll apologise?  

[Bruce Spanner]

16 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Maybe pat me on the head too. 
 

So any black person, can accuse you or racism at any time, for anything or nothing, and youll apologise?  

No, of course not.

 

But our knee jerk reaction to fight back when people say things which challenge our ideas is holding back discussions.

 

The book is great and looks at all the systemic stuff, but also the wider idea of racial micro aggressions that are prevalent. 
 

If you’re accused of racism ask why, if it’s a genuine thing you’ve learnt something and everybody moves on, if it’s spurious then they’re a cunt and are doing harm to the wider conversation and should be called out as such.

 

Didn’t mean to come across as condescending, but I don’t see why these ideas aren’t just common place. 

[Strontium]

Presumably the reverse also applies in the 80% of countries where whites are a minority?

[Bjornebye]

The world would be a better place if people stopped giving a fuck what colour or religion others are and focused on being a decent human being and looking after each other so we can all enjoy our existence more. 

 

John Lennon on acid gear I know but he had a point. 

[Bruce Spanner]

3 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

Presumably the reverse also applies in the 80% of countries where whites are a minority?

Yes, of course with the caveat that there a probably a few long held mistrusts towards ‘whitey’, ya know colonialism, slavery, pillaging, systematic destruction, genocide etc. 
 

Tend to live long in the memory those things for some reason.

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

The world would be a better place if people stopped giving a fuck what colour or religion others are and focused on being a decent human being and looking after each other so we can all enjoy our existence more. 

 

John Lennon on acid gear I know but he had a point. 

Martin Luther King said the same thing.  

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Martin Luther King said the same thing.  

So did Stig. 

 

I'm waiting for the gunman. 

[Rico1304]

37 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I mean it’s a mouthful, I agree.

 

How about ‘I’m sorry I did something that you think is racist, please explain why so I can understand better as I wasn’t aware.’

 

Its not difficult, Rico.

I’m afraid that apology doesn’t go far enough either “I’m sorry I did something you THINK is racist...” that’s not enough.  You are racist if you are accused of it.  Denying it is racist.  

[Bruce Spanner]

7 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I’m afraid that apology doesn’t go far enough either “I’m sorry I did something you THINK is racist...” that’s not enough.  You are racist if you are accused of it.  Denying it is racist.  

The semantics are problematic, yes.

 

I think that’s part of the problem as nobody is comfortable engaging in the conversation or defending themselves against the accusation.

 

I’ve definitely done things in the past which were probably considered racist, not intentionally, but they were and if they are pointed out to me I change my language/attitude/action. That’s not racism, that’s learning how to not be racist, which is difficult after a life time of conditioning. It’s not a fixed state that’s unchangable

[Rico1304]

7 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

The semantics are problematic, yes.

 

I think that’s part of the problem as nobody is comfortable engaging in the conversation or defending themselves against the accusation.

 

I’ve definitely done things in the past which were probably considered racist, not intentionally, but they were and if they are pointed out to me I change my language/attitude/action. That’s not racism, that’s learning how to not be racist, which is difficult after a life time of conditioning. It’s not a fixed state that’s unchangable

But you are white.  You are racist.  

[Bruce Spanner]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

But you are white.  You are racist.  

Lolz!

 

 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Lolz!

 

 

Or, is it possible to be accused of racism and for that accusation to be wrong? 

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

Or, is it possible to be accused of racism and for that accusation to be wrong? 

I've been called anti-semitic for disagreeing with someone who happened to be Jewish. More than once actually. I am anything but. I've also seen at first hand the race-card be used in the workplace completely unfairly. False accusations without any substance and as a means of defence are almost as abhorrent as acts of racism themselves. I think Laurence Fox has come out with enough rhetoric for people to assume he is racist. 

[Bruce Spanner]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

Or, is it possible to be accused of racism and for that accusation to be wrong? 

You could be unaware that what you did was racist, yes. If this happens learn from it and change how you approach things. That’s still racism, unconsciously of course, that’s not being aware of what you did was offensive and learning from it. None racist/good person.

 

If you’re accused of being a racist and you are consciously aware of it then you’re a racist/cunt.

 

If you use racism falsely and use it to cast somebody as a racist, even though they are not then you’re a cunt.

 

If you’re a supermarket piggybacking on BLM demos to boost profits without actually implementing anti-discriminatory policies you’re a cunt supermarket.

 

 

 

 

[Strontium]

26 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Yes, of course with the caveat that there a probably a few long held mistrusts towards ‘whitey’, ya know colonialism, slavery, pillaging, systematic destruction, genocide etc. 
 

Tend to live long in the memory those things for some reason.

 

It's a selective memory, isn't it. They remember what whitey did alright, and conveniently forget who captured and sold them into slavery in the first place. 

[Bruce Spanner]

Just now, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

It's a selective memory, isn't it. They remember what whitey did alright, and conveniently forget who captured and sold them into slavery in the first place. 

I don’t know the Masai still hold grudges over the Hutu to this day over it...

[SasaS]

When I first became aware of whiteness studies I admit I was shocked, I thought it was some academic cul-de-sac where lapsed American Marxists or some such go when there is nowhere else radical to go, but that it is creeping into the mainstream is appalling. It must be the first theory which includes preemptive rejection of the possibility of any critical analysis of itself, as white defensiveness. I remember watching one of the lectures on white defensiveness on Youtube, I think it may be DiAngelo herself, any reasonable counterargument was explained away by dismissing its origin, not point. It's essentially some kind of religion, it has a dogma, original sin, contrition. A postcolonial theory which seeks to explain the world from its culturally narrow viewpoint, of a critique of  Western  colonialism / imperialism and its aftermath.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

They recommended the book White Fragility to staff. Here’s what it says ‘ ‘a positive white identity is an impossible goal. White identity is inherently racist. White people do not exist outside of the system of white supremacy’.

Two things about that:

1.  It's obviously true, in a European, North American and Australasian context, at least.

2.  It doesn't say "White people are racist".

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Really?  Original sin?  

That's got nothing to do with what Bruce posted.