Someone's having a real laugh - sperm of gollum to Utd.

[Boss]

Gerrard doesn't have the ideas to become a top-class manager. Gerrard wanted us to hire Curbishley and backed Hodgson's appointment. Gerrard is stuck with the mentality of an LMA manager. I'd rather have Rodgers back than Gerrard. Anyway, it should be someone who's managed at the highest level and won the biggest honours. Someone that the players can respect, who has forward-thinking ideas about football.

[Barrington Womble]

29 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

I used Wolves as an example but could have said any club outside of the recognised big six (also at this point exclude Newcastle)

 

What I meant was look at the managers that have had success in Scotland and then came south of the border and been unable to replicate. For me a true gauge of Gerrard's managerial capability will be when he's pitting his wits week in week out against some of the best managers and teams in Europe not some tinpot league in Scotland, personally I'm not sure I would want him doing that at Liverpool and have a similar fate to Lampard at Chelsea.

 

So what are you saying then, Brendan Rodgers is doing OK at Leicester, so maybe he should be a candidate? Or maybe David Moyes, he did a smashing job at Everton and is doing the same at West Ham. 

 

I personally don't think it works like that, because football at different levels is completely different - and that includes being outside of the top 6 in england. When was there last a manager who did a nice job at a none top 6 side and then went on to do well with an established giant? I think you need to look for other qualities and also, what you are missing within your club. As I pointed out earlier, if Gerrard (or whoever else replaces Klopp) can come in to take the top seat, while maintaining Klopp's team around him - the skills he needs in the 1st instance are about managing people internally (upwards and downwards) and carrying the weight and expectations of the club externally. Gerrard can certainly do the latter, the former we don't know about because none of us have worked with him. He would be surrounded by coaches, doctors, dietary and fitness specialists who've done it all with Klopp. Will he be Klopp? Well of course not, because literally he is a one off as a man and a manager. 

 

When Klopp got the Dortmund job, he was probably about the equivalent of Eddie Howe in terms of achievements, except he moved a bit earlier. Nobody would have wanted Howe as our manager (and rightly too). But that didn't mean Klopp wasn't right for Dortmund. But would he have worked at LFC at that time - I think maybe not. Klopp established himself as a massive national (international) personality in his time at Dortmund, which allowed him some skills at being capable of carrying the weight of our club when here arrived here. People like to match us with Dortmund, but the pressure he is on a completely different level. Gerrard knows this club and is managing in a unique goldfish bowl of glasgow. 

 

I personally think we need an evolution and not a revolution when Klopp goes. Loads of people champion Pep Lijnders for the job and would have him over Stevie G. This is a fella who walked away from LFC to take over in Nijmegen and lasted about 6 months. I am not actually saying Stevie should be the man - he might be on a different journey by then anyway. But I feel pretty certain Lijnders as well thought of as he is, has very little credentials for being the main man at liverpool, but that is not to say we need to lose him. He can be a smart number 2 to a manager who in the 1st instance has the stature to command world class stars. It's not the 70s anymore, the modern dressing room isn't what we had when Bob replaced Bill. 

[etho]

Rangers are horrible to watch, horrible

[manwiththestick]

10 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So what are you saying then, Brendan Rodgers is doing OK at Leicester, so maybe he should be a candidate? Or maybe David Moyes, he did a smashing job at Everton and is doing the same at West Ham. 

 

I personally don't think it works like that, because football at different levels is completely different - and that includes being outside of the top 6 in england. When was there last a manager who did a nice job at a none top 6 side and then went on to do well with an established giant? I think you need to look for other qualities and also, what you are missing within your club. As I pointed out earlier, if Gerrard (or whoever else replaces Klopp) can come in to take the top seat, while maintaining Klopp's team around him - the skills he needs in the 1st instance are about managing people internally (upwards and downwards) and carrying the weight and expectations of the club externally. Gerrard can certainly do the latter, the former we don't know about because none of us have worked with him. He would be surrounded by coaches, doctors, dietary and fitness specialists who've done it all with Klopp. Will he be Klopp? Well of course not, because literally he is a one off as a man and a manager. 

 

When Klopp got the Dortmund job, he was probably about the equivalent of Eddie Howe in terms of achievements, except he moved a bit earlier. Nobody would have wanted Howe as our manager (and rightly too). But that didn't mean Klopp wasn't right for Dortmund. But would he have worked at LFC at that time - I think maybe not. Klopp established himself as a massive national (international) personality in his time at Dortmund, which allowed him some skills at being capable of carrying the weight of our club when he arrived here. People like to match us with Dortmund, but the pressure he is on a completely different level. Gerrard knows this club and is managing in a unique goldfish bowl of glasgow. 

 

I personally think we need an evolution and not a revolution when Klopp goes. Loads of people champion Pep Lijnders for the job and would have him over Stevie G. This is a fella who walked away from LFC to take over in Nijmegen and lasted about 6 months. I am not actually saying Stevie should be the man - he might be on a different journey by then anyway. But I feel pretty certain Lijnders as well thought of as he is, has very little credentials for being the main man at liverpool, but that is not to say we need to lose him. He can be a smart number 2 to a manager who in the 1st instance has the stature to command world class stars. It's not the 70s anymore, the modern dressing room isn't what we had when Bob replaced Bill. 

No mate, I'm not saying that. Forget Gerrard and his history with our club for a moment, we are arguably in the top three teams in Europe right now, no manager will be a replacement for Klopp but are you telling me that us getting a former PL midfielder with 3 years managing experience in Scotland taking them to one title would be top of the "want" list? If it wasn't Gerrard I could not see any of our fans being on board with that level of replacement. And, as someone else has said, the football isn't great to watch.

[Chris]

25 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Gerrard will 100% be our next coach. 
 

I fail to believe that Klopp and Gerrard both signed contract extensions on the same day, which then both end of the same day, is a coincidence.
 

At present, Rangers is a good move for Gerrard. He has the pressure of having to compete in every competition available and knows he won’t have a fortune to rebuild the squad, having to rely on coaching to improve players.

 

Gerrard will have been away from the club long enough to be a new voice to the players. He also has all the medals (bar one) and one of our greatest ever players, so he’ll instantly have the respect of the squad.

 

I just hope he doesn’t do a Moyes and sacks all the back room staff.

 

Do we have any indication yet that Steven Gerrard is, y'know, a good coach? 

[Section_31]

15 minutes ago, Boss said:

Gerrard doesn't have the ideas to become a top-class manager. Gerrard wanted us to hire Curbishley and backed Hodgson's appointment. Gerrard is stuck with the mentality of an LMA manager. I'd rather have Rodgers back than Gerrard. Anyway, it should be someone who's managed at the highest level and won the biggest honours. Someone that the players can respect, who has forward-thinking ideas about football.

I dunno.

 

I'm not convinced by Gerrard but in managerial terms he's an absolute pup, plenty of time and scope for development.

 

One thing players like Gerrard have to get over, and IMO it's where Keane and Lampard fell down as managers, is sometimes it seems like they expect their footballing ability to bring them results as managers, that the respect their players they feel should have for them is enough to motivate them to great things, and it doesn't work that way, clearly.

 

Also, you get the feeling there's some disdian from these guys for their players when they can't reach the heights on the pitch that they reached. You can imagine some of the shit out of Keane's mouth especially after a bad performance.

 

Maybe that's why some really good managers were mediocre players, they come into the job humble.

[Barrington Womble]

15 minutes ago, manwiththestick said:

No mate, I'm not saying that. Forget Gerrard and his history with our club for a moment, we are arguably in the top three teams in Europe right now, no manager will be a replacement for Klopp but are you telling me that us getting a former PL midfielder with 3 years managing experience in Scotland taking them to one title would be top of the "want" list? If it wasn't Gerrard I could not see any of our fans being on board with that level of replacement.

He won't have 3 years of experience by then, he will have 5 and likely 4 titles. And absolutely everything you read about Klopp is he is a massive delegator, he trusts his staff, he has the final call, but he lets them do their job. So he will be surrounded with best in their field coaches and fitness people. 

 

And we shouldn't forget about Gerrard being here. And i don't mean about what he did on the pitch. He was captain of this club for over a decade and through an incredibly tough time from H&G and for a few years after. Listen to any of the players who talk about what a leader he was. What a captain off the pitch. Everyone wanks about the captain we have now and what a leader he is - well who taught him the ropes? Who looked after him when he was shitting himself when he 1st joined the club? Anyone who doesn't think Gerrard was more than a player when he was at Liverpool chooses to ignore his contribution. Those leadership skills are one of the absolute things required to take over from Klopp. In fact if Klopp's backroom team remain, it's probably the defining skill. And chances are, after 5 years in management at Rangers he will have improved those skills even more. 

 

If Gerrard maintains his trajectory over the next 2.5 years at Rangers, he would be miles and away a better candidate for manager of our club than any manager in this league today outside of Klopp, Guardiola and maybe Tuchel - and they won't be candidates. I am not sure which PL manager you would recruit instead.  That's not to say we can't find a good manager abroad, but this is supposedly the best league in the world, with the best managers and I don't see any I look enviously over or who I think "he'd do a job if klopp walked away today". 

[Arniepie]

Seems fairly reasonable to be writing a manager off 3 years onto his career 

[Barrington Womble]

12 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

Do we have any indication yet that Steven Gerrard is, y'know, a good coach? 

I feel his job would be manager and not coach. We have good coaches. 

[Tony Moanero]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

I feel his job would be manager and not coach. We have good coaches. 

They call managers coaches nowadays, don’t they?

[3 Stacks]

32 minutes ago, Boss said:

Gerrard doesn't have the ideas to become a top-class manager. Gerrard wanted us to hire Curbishley and backed Hodgson's appointment. Gerrard is stuck with the mentality of an LMA manager. I'd rather have Rodgers back than Gerrard. Anyway, it should be someone who's managed at the highest level and won the biggest honours. Someone that the players can respect, who has forward-thinking ideas about football.

I don't know that we can definitely say that. His side conceded 13 goals last year. At the very least, that shows he can make players adhere to a certain organization. 

 

He doesn't have to be Pep playing full backs in midfield or playing a 3-2-2-3. Just have a recognizable way of playing. 

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

They call managers coaches nowadays, don’t they?

I don't believe we do, no. Some clubs do for sure, but that is not our path. 

[Chris]

7 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I feel his job would be manager and not coach. We have good coaches. 

 

So, kinda like a motivator who also picks the team and makes the subs and does the interviews? If the coaches are doing everything else, like...

[Barrington Womble]

1 minute ago, Chris said:

 

So, kinda like a motivator who also picks the team and makes the subs and does the interviews? If the coaches are doing everything else, like...

that would be part of the job, sure. if you think that is all there is to managing people, carry on. 

[TheHowieLama]

There is one current shining example of doing well at Wolves then taking over a big 6 club.

[Barrington Womble]

anyway, as this is the "sperm of gollum" thread. perhaps we need to lighten this up a bit. 

 

 

[Chris]

Just now, Barrington Womble said:

that would be part of the job, sure. if you think that is all there is to managing people, carry on. 

 

I'm just riffing on what you said, mate. If we won't be relying on him to coach the players and make informed tactical decisions and outfox other teams, what will he be doing other than picking the team and motivating? 

 

If it feels I'm being prickly, it's because I'm dead set against him being Klopp's replacement and it feels like people are doing mental gymnastics to justify it being a good idea.

[johnsusername]

12 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

They call managers coaches nowadays, don’t they?

Reminds me of...

[3 Stacks]

Imo, the most important thing we've learned about what makes a great manager from a sporting perspective with Klopp is that you need someone with a real style of football and that can collaborate with the transfer people so that you can find players who adhere to your style and everyone at the club is going in the same direction. I think it's literally that simple. Gerrard already has the gravitas about him, if he has that other part, then it would have a chance of working. Even if the football isn't that pretty. 

[Arniepie]

20 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I don't know that we can definitely say that. His side conceded 13 goals last year. At the very least, that shows he can make players adhere to a certain organization. 

 

He doesn't have to be Pep playing full backs in midfield or playing a 3-2-2-3. Just have a recognizable way of playing. 

Apparently being in the managers union automatically means you are an awful manager

 

[Megadrive Man]

23 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

They call managers coaches nowadays, don’t they?

Some people call Buses coaches now. 

[halewood pete]

[Boss]

35 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Imo, the most important thing we've learned about what makes a great manager from a sporting perspective with Klopp is that you need someone with a real style of football and that can collaborate with the transfer people so that you can find players who adhere to your style and everyone at the club is going in the same direction. I think it's literally that simple. Gerrard already has the gravitas about him, if he has that other part, then it would have a chance of working. Even if the football isn't that pretty. 

 

It's really not that simple. I wish it was. Klopp is a great manager because he's a great man. There are so many intangible things that make him great. He's a genius, not just tactically, but also in terms of what he says and does, and the manner in which he says or does it.

 

People laughed at us when he got the team to celebrate a draw against West Brom. The natural tendency for any manager would be to disappear down the tunnel, but he chose to get all the players together and thank The Kop. He created a rapport between the fans and the players that we haven't seen since Shankly. And it wasn't built on platitudes either, it was built on hard truths. He asked the fans to stop singing songs about him, and instead, sing about the players. He told the fans to stop sighing after missed chances and to clap the players instead. He even scalded the fans for leaving Anfield early. That took real balls and he wasn't afraid to do it. In the fullness of time he was proved right, and it cultivated the atmosphere around the club that we have now.

 

You can ask him about anything, whether it be the pandemic or Newcastle's takeover and he's always the most sensible person in the room. He's tough with the players when he needs to be, and a father figure when they need that instead. Psychologically, he's a genius. Those players will run through a brick wall for him. The coaching staff hang off his every word. You won't see another manager like him. He's irreplaceable.

 

 

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, Boss said:

 

It's really not that simple. I wish it was. Klopp is a great manager because he's a great man. There are so many intangible things that make him great. He's a genius, not just tactically, but also in terms of what he says and does, and the manner in which he says or does it.

 

People laughed at us when he got the team to celebrate a draw against West Brom. The natural tendency for any manager would be to disappear down the tunnel, but he chose to get all the players together and thank The Kop. He created a rapport between the fans and the players that we haven't seen since Shankly. And it wasn't built on platitudes either, it was built on hard truths. He asked the fans to stop singing songs about him, and instead, sing about the players. He told the fans to stop sighing after missed chances and to clap the players instead. He even scalded the fans for leaving Anfield early. That took real balls and he wasn't afraid to do it. In the fullness of time he was proved right, and it cultivated the atmosphere around the club that we have now.

 

You can ask him about anything, whether it be the pandemic or Newcastle's takeover and he's always the most salient person in the room. He's tough with the players when he needs to be, and a father figure when they need that instead. Psychologically, he's a genius. Those players will run through a brick wall for him. The coaching staff hang off his every word. You won't see another manager like him. He's irreplaceable.

 

 

From a sporting perspective, it is kind of that simple in a nutshell. Most players we've bought have worked because they fit a specific profile and style of football and everyone at the club agrees with it. If you can create that dynamic, then you're set for some kind of success. Could Gerrard do that? Why not? I don't think anyone's kidding themselves that Gerrard can be Klopp, though. Klopp is Klopp.

[TheHowieLama]

If he is irreplaceable then we really do not have to worry about who we get next.