Alfie's Army

[Oh Buoy]

 

 

A change from "look at his big hat" then.

 

Fair enough, I see I have conflated several dismissive comments over the past couple of pages, some of which I feel were ridiculing working class people. This culminated in your flippant remarks which I found offensive.

 

Do I think the Pope has special powers to cure his son, no I don't. Do I believe that the lad thinks by seeing the Pope he can boost the chances of getting his baby to Rome where (misguided or not) he genuinely believes his son can be saved, yes I do.

 

Do I think the lad's doing it for himself, no I don't, and I think to imply that he is is appalling.

 

He is in deep trauma and is doing everything he can for the ultimate reason - for life. Everything he is doing is motivated by that.

 

Sorry for the use of a capitalised dickhead. The past couple of pages had an underlying tone of class sneering and it got to me.

Is it really a change?

 

Throughout this thread I have made clear and coherent points about the interests of Alfie. I made one comment about live streaming and you demonised my character as if I've been consistent with derogatory comments. I haven't yet you're implying I've changed my stance.

 

With regards to the hospital in Rome they would only offer palliative care. Transferring him for the exact treatment and heighten the risk of seizures and stress within the end of his life is not within Alfie's interests.

 

We can discuss whether taking him to another hospital to prove to himself that he's done everything he could is within his interests or Alfie's. I'd say it's his. I'd say that the argument of saying they should have the right to remove Alfie is also within his interests.

 

We can agree to disagree. I'm not being degrading or by any means offensive. It's the nature of parental responsibility and where those conditions stop and where the child's start.

 

I can accept the dickhead comment, it's easy to become offensive when you're passionate. It's great to have a discussion and I hope you can accept my stance.

[Strontium]

I don't think he's doing it for self-publicity, he's doing it because he's either ignorant of the impact or plain does not care. Hundreds of parents go through this sort of tragedy every year and most of them manage not to turn it into a media circus. You tolerate his delusion for a while because you have empathy for his situation, but we're at the stage now where the parents are actively working against their terminally ill son's best interests, and costing a cash-strapped NHS a bloody fortune in the process. I think it's the most self-indulgent thing I've ever seen in my life. Enough.

[The-Sir]

Just let the poor kid die.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

The Supreme Court have rejected the request to reconsider their initial decision.

[johnsusername]

I don't think anyone has been having a dig at the parents. Just the soft arses outside the hospital playing footy and putting up bouncy castles. 

[Anubis]

The Supreme Court have rejected the request to reconsider their initial decision.

Well I'm shocked. Is anyone else shocked. Because I'm shocked...

[Oh Buoy]

I don't think this will slow them down. 

 

It's injustice in their minds. 

[Section_31]

Well I'm shocked. Is anyone else shocked. Because I'm shocked...

Some of the medical scholars from the University of Lonsdale queued up outside may have some thoughts.

[Lee909]

Andrea Williams, chief executive of the Christian Legal Centre, which is now representing Alfie's family, said: "We are going to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights hoping we can stay the end-of-life order our courts have made.

"We are appealing today because we have got to act quickly. The parents are devoted parents."

Ms Williams added: "It is one thing to argue any medical treatment is futile, it is quite another thing to say someone should die because their quality of life is futile."

Image captionProtesters outside Alder Hey Children's Hospital last Thursday

In a statement issued through their lawyers, Mr Evans and Ms James said: "Our son's life is not futile.

"We love him. We value him. There are people willing to treat him and we have the state saying 'It's not worth giving him the chance'."

Last week Merseyside Police said it was investigating "acts of intimidation" among protesters outside Alder Hey after the atmosphere outside the hospital was described as "intimidating and scary".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's from the BBC

Its a horrible situation but that just reads like a full on Christian life argument rather than the child being the focal point

 

We would rather the kids alive on machines forever with no quality of life than the alternative. 

[Oh Buoy]

 

Andrea Williams, chief executive of the Christian Legal Centre, which is now representing Alfie's family, said: "We are going to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights hoping we can stay the end-of-life order our courts have made.

"We are appealing today because we have got to act quickly. The parents are devoted parents."

Ms Williams added: "It is one thing to argue any medical treatment is futile, it is quite another thing to say someone should die because their quality of life is futile."

Image captionProtesters outside Alder Hey Children's Hospital last Thursday

In a statement issued through their lawyers, Mr Evans and Ms James said: "Our son's life is not futile.

"We love him. We value him. There are people willing to treat him and we have the state saying 'It's not worth giving him the chance'."

Last week Merseyside Police said it was investigating "acts of intimidation" among protesters outside Alder Hey after the atmosphere outside the hospital was described as "intimidating and scary".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's from the BBC

Its a horrible situation but that just reads like a full on Christian life argument rather than the child being the focal point

 

We would rather the kids alive on machines forever with no quality of life than the alternative. 

 

 

What a message to send out. 

 

"Quality of life is irrelevant". 

[Strontium]

What a message to send out. 

 

"Quality of life is irrelevant".

It makes sense if you're a Christian though, because this life is just a practice run for eternity in Heaven anyway.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

This, from Andrea Williams, Chief Exec of the Christian Legal Centre, is batshit crazy tosh. It's shocking that these imposters have been allowed to give such shite guidance and false hope.

 

 

http://www.christianconcern.com/our-issues/life-and-bioethics/why-alfie-matters

 

 

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Published: April 20th, 2018 | Life and Bioethics

 

Christian Legal Centre’s chief executive, Andrea Minichiello Williams explains why Alfie Evans – and the Christian Legal Centre’s efforts to help him – are so important.

 

Since being asked to help Alfie Evans – the boy whose life support Alder Hey Children’s Hospital wants to turn off – many people have asked why the case matters. Why put so much effort into treating just one, very ill boy, which will almost certainly turn out to be futile?

 

I want to tell you why Alfie matters.

 

Alfie is made in God’s image

 

Fundamentally, Alfie matters because he is a human being, made in God’s image and with inherent dignity. From the strongest to the weakest, from the fittest to the frailest, we all matter, and we should all be protected.

 

The idea that some lives matter more than others, and that this can be decided by judges and other authorities, is abhorrent. It’s the driving force behind racism, gendercide and eugenics. It’s the driving force behind many of the worst atrocities in human history.

 

Alfie is a human. Just like you, your friends and your family members. In his particularly fragile condition, it is absolutely right that his parents, and many others, are deeply committed to protecting him. This is a deeply Christian impulse – to care for the most vulnerable.

 

Alfie is undiagnosed, and being offered treatment elsewhere

 

Some people wrongly think that this case is purely about permission for Alder Hey to turn off Alfie’s life support. It is not. There are indeed times where life is, completely artificially, being sustained, and support of some kind must tragically be turned off.

 

This is not Alfie’s situation. He remains undiagnosed. There are other, excellent hospitals ready to continue caring for Alfie and attempting to help. An air ambulance crew was blocked from taking Alfie to one of these hospitals – first by Alder Hey, then by the courts.

 

No one is forcing Alder Hey to keep treating Alfie indefinitely. They are being asked to stand down, pass the medical records on, and allow others to treat him. It is this that Alder Hey has been fighting, tooth and nail.

 

Alder Hey’s determination to stop Alfie receiving further treatment is surely causing them reputational damage. I’m sure that the hospital does excellent work caring for many small, vulnerable children, so it puzzles me that they are so reluctant to simply transfer Alfie into the care of other medical professionals.

 

The authorities are not allowing Alfie to die, they are compelling him to die

 

By preventing further treatment of Alfie, Alder Hey and the courts are compelling Alfie to die.

 

In a twisted irony, one judge warned of the dangers inherent in transporting Alfie by air, while simultaneously signing off on Alfie’s compelled death. Why such concern for Alfie while he’s in an air ambulance, when you are ordering for his life support to be removed anyway?

 

This is the moral equivalent of child euthanasia. ‘Experts’ have concluded that Alfie’s life is not worth living and they are determined to end it.

 

It’s all done in the name of compassion, of course. But ending the life of an innocent children – where continued treatment is being offered, where the child appears responsive, where no diagnosis has even been made - is not for medical professionals and judges to decide.

 

The state does not respect parents

 

For decades, we’ve seen the state – through changes to the law and through judgments in family courts stop recognising the limits of its authority in family matters.

 

No one denies that there are times when the state must intervene – such as when a child is being abused or neglected. But, more and more, as in Alfie’s case, the state is overriding the parents’ views on what’s best for their children.

 

Courts simply assume that their duty is always to do what they think is best – not to apply the law. (So we encounter another irony – that ex-magistrate Richard Page was dismissed from his role for doing exactly that).

 

Apart from in the clearest of cases, or where an adjudication between the parents of a child must be made, courts should be extremely reluctant to override the parents’ wishes. Parents are, on the whole, deeply invested in the wellbeing of their children. They spend their whole lives with them – not just a few days in court. Court is not always – in fact, not normally – the best place to decide such things.

 

The path we are on leads only to a form of benevolent totalitarianism – the paternalistic state deciding in as many cases as possible what is ‘best’ for its people, and having no respect for the God-given, natural, rights and responsibilities of parents.

 

Vaguely-worded human ‘rights’ are overriding ancient freedoms

 

In court, barrister Paul Diamond, acting on behalf of the parents, argued habeas corpus. This is an ancient recourse in law, requiring a court to prove that a detainee – Alfie Evans, in this case – is being lawfully held captive.

 

In their judgments, the courts brushed this point aside, arguing that they had, instead, a duty in international law to seek the child’s best interests. The vaguely-worded, broadly-defined UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, apparently overrides the concrete, centuries-old Habeas Corpus Act. Not just in overriding the wishes of those closest to Alfie – the parents – but in ensuring Alfie’s death.

 

Once again, we see the effects of the ever-expanding list of ‘human rights’ – that is, human-given rights, which inevitably contradict one another – becoming, in reality, no rights at all.

 

Why bother with rights or law at all that relate to children if they are overruled, in court judgments, by the duty for a judge to seek a child’s best interest?

 

Endlessly increasing and relying upon human rights creates yet another irony – absolute power being concentrated in the hands of imperfect judges alone. It is an abandonment of the rule of law.

 

The right to end life is not theirs

 

Even while supporting Alfie’s parents in their struggle to save Alfie, I have little doubt that Alder Hey Children’s Hospital, the other medical witnesses and the judges genuinely seek Alfie’s wellbeing. The problem is that they have overruled the parents and decided that they should compel Alfie’s death.

 

But the right to end innocent life is not theirs – it is God’s alone. They are playing God with Alfie’s life.

 

Our society, turning away from the true God, so readily assumes that we must take his place. From the government and the courts, to schools, hospitals and care workers, in God’s apparent (but not real) absence, we expect institutions to take his place and save us from all evil.

 

This is impossible.

 

We must instead call on God to make things right, and while we are waiting, do all that we can with what we have, to seek justice and to do what is right.

 

Because Alfie matters.

[Creator Supreme]

Let them take him and when the poor kid dies on the way, or makes it but remains undiagnosed and only palliative care is offered let them have the absolute audacity to make a fucking song and dance about it!

 

I'm frankly sick of hearing about it, let that poor kid just have dignity one way or another!

 

Fucking religious loons get right on my tits!

[BCM]

Let them take him and when the poor kid dies on the way, or makes it but remains undiagnosed and only palliative care is offered let them have the absolute audacity to make a fucking song and dance about it!

 

I'm frankly sick of hearing about it, let that poor kid just have dignity one way or another!

 

Fucking religious loons get right on my tits!

 

My thoughts exactly..

[Oh Buoy]

At what point did anyone read that statement from Christian Legal Centre and think, "Hmmm, this sounds more about their agenda than it does Alfie"? 

 

This is fucking wrong - they are complete abuse of this case from CLC. 

 

Here's another question: If Alfie was another religion? Would it be against God's wishes? Fuck off you boring cunts.

[Fugitive]

The lot of them can fuck off. My mum has been called a murderer and spat at on her way into the building. If she ever treats any of their kids, I hope the cunts feel nothing but shame.

 

The twats.

[Creator Supreme]

The lot of them can fuck off. My mum has been called a murderer and spat at on her way into the building. If she ever treats any of their kids, I hope the cunts feel nothing but shame.

 

The twats.

And that's another point Fuge, she would treat them! They'd not be turned away, despite the way they've acted!

[Section_31]

The problem with all this is the parents (which I fully understand) are acting like the child is their property. But I think I'm right in saying that according to medical ethics he is a patient in his own right, and his doctors are bound to do whatever minimises his suffering. Their duty is to him, and nobody else.

[Charles Penrose]

The lot of them can fuck off. My mum has been called a murderer and spat at on her way into the building. If she ever treats any of their kids, I hope the cunts feel nothing but shame.

 

The twats.

Disgraceful.

 

Unless your mum is Beverley Allitt. She’s not is she?

[Anubis]

Sorry to hear about that, Fuge. Bang out of order.

[Fugitive]

She has said that some of the kids in the hospital are terrified and also that the media are making things ten times worse. If they fucked off, I’m guessing most of the cunts screaming abuse would disappear as well.

[Anubis]

I thought they'd all gone, or are they still there.

[Fugitive]

I thought they'd all gone, or are they still there.

Not sure, I spoke to her last night and she was telling me what had been going on over the past week.

[King Emlyn]

They really are utter pond life aren’t they

[Harry Squatter]

It's the Facebook thick cunt mentality. Jump on a bandwagon and believe everything you hear as gospel. Then just go OTT about everything to get more likes and shares.