Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Moo]

11 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Of all the gay people I've ever met, I've only met one who was anti-trans. The rest recognise the shared struggles they have to overcome - often against the same bigots.

 

Of course they wouldn't be anti-trans and would recognise similar struggles. 

But there are gay people who are uncomfortable with the idea of gay/lesbian erasure, where "queer" (an offensive inflammatory term for many gay people) is used as a catch all and homosexuality, and references to it, is seen as something to be looked down upon. When that happens the pro-gay (not anti-trans) element inevitably feel they need to speak up.

If trans/gender is not about sexuality why alter the gay pride flag? There is a specific trans flag isn't there? Are gay people asking for that to be erased?

[Pidge]

1 hour ago, Moo said:

 

Of course they wouldn't be anti-trans and would recognise similar struggles. 

But there are gay people who are uncomfortable with the idea of gay/lesbian erasure, where "queer" (an offensive inflammatory term for many gay people) is used as a catch all and homosexuality, and references to it, is seen as something to be looked down upon. When that happens the pro-gay (not anti-trans) element inevitably feel they need to speak up.

If trans/gender is not about sexuality why alter the gay pride flag? There is a specific trans flag isn't there? Are gay people asking for that to be erased?

The pre-cursor to the pride flag was, apparently, the pink triangle. A reference to the Holocaust. As I've pointed out on here before, that persecution applied to trans people too, so I don't think it's fair to exclude them now regardless over who identifies as what sexuality. Surely the rainbow itself symbolises that there many different groups under the flag?

 

I think the issue for some might be that trans and people of colour (the brown and black lines) are highlighted in addition to the main flag. Didn't appear to be the issue that twitter user had though.

 

I think where gay or lesbian people feel they are being diminished they should be able to say so. But the prohibitive "this is mine, not yours" approach seems out of step with the point of the flag, from my understanding.

[Mook]

Mate of mine is barred from our local because he referred to a bloke in a dress as 'he'. The bloke in the dress wasn't even arsed, it was one of the bar staff who took offence.

 

Mental.

[Moo]

52 minutes ago, Pidge said:

The pre-cursor to the pride flag was, apparently, the pink triangle. A reference to the Holocaust. As I've pointed out on here before, that persecution applied to trans people too, so I don't think it's fair to exclude them now regardless over who identifies as what sexuality. Surely the rainbow itself symbolises that there many different groups under the flag?

 

I think the issue for some might be that trans and people of colour (the brown and black lines) are highlighted in addition to the main flag. Didn't appear to be the issue that twitter user had though.

 

I think where gay or lesbian people feel they are being diminished they should be able to say so. But the prohibitive "this is mine, not yours" approach seems out of step with the point of the flag, from my understanding.

 

The T would have always been represented in a rainbow flag, prior to the newer versions.  So by adding additional markers to further represent people already represented diminishes the rest, or at least appears to.

I think the general feeling, where it exists, is that this was all of ours, including yours, but you want to diminish our part in it. That will inevitably lead to some people taking a harder line.

 

(ps, I don't think people identify as a sexuality)

[Moo]

20 minutes ago, Mook said:

Mate of mine is barred from our local because he referred to a bloke in a dress as 'he'. The bloke in the dress wasn't even arsed, it was one of the bar staff who took offence.

 

Mental.

 

How would you know, from someone's attire alone, what gender they identify as?  Unless your mate knew and deliberately misgendered them?  

[No2]

On 26/03/2023 at 00:16, A Red said:

And the biggest blockage to a united Ireland, but i get shot down when I say that.

It's not the biggest blockage, I doubt its even top 10 at this stage. 20 years you're statement may have had a large amount of truth in it.

[Pidge]

14 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

The T would have always been represented in a rainbow flag, prior to the newer versions.  So by adding additional markers to further represent people already represented diminishes the rest, or at least appears to.

I think the general feeling, where it exists, is that this was all of ours, including yours, but you want to diminish our part in it. That will inevitably lead to some people taking a harder line.

 

(ps, I don't think people identify as a sexuality)

 

Yeah, I think that's probably it. I think it's a bit of a shit flag as well, personally, as it seems to have mainly come from parties wanting a single symbol, where they could just use both flags if they wanted to delineate trans, rather than as an organic symbol. 

 

And yes, clumsy phrasing on my part.

[Mook]

7 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

How would you know, from someone's attire alone, what gender they identify as?  Unless your mate knew and deliberately misgendered them?  

 

He referred to the bloke as a 'he' because he was a bloke.

[Pidge]

2 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

He referred to the bloke as a 'he' because he was a bloke.

What like someone on a stag?

[Mook]

14 minutes ago, Pidge said:

What like someone on a stag?

 

Nah, just a guy out for a pint wearing a dress.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

The whole addition to the pride flag thing reminds me of when the Wombles added a black Womble, Stepney. A noble sentiment, but by doing so it infered there was an exclusion to begin with, and rather than being wholly inclusive could be seen as fragmentary.

[Pidge]

29 minutes ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

The whole addition to the pride flag thing reminds me of when the Wombles added a black Womble, Stepney. A noble sentiment, but by doing so it infered there was an exclusion to begin with, and rather than being wholly inclusive could be seen as fragmentary.

 

I feel the same way about Lego.

[Captain Turdseye]

2 hours ago, Mook said:

 

Nah, just a guy out for a pint wearing a dress.

Your local sounds like a top boozer. 

[Mook]

12 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Your local sounds like a top boozer. 

 

It's a fucking great pub (link below) but I'm avoiding it just now as the local man eater has been trying to get her hands on me & I'm not interested.

 

https://www.waverleybar.co.uk/

 

Actually went to another pub last night & got chatting to a stripper, that was an eye opener. Sometimes I realise I've lead a really sheltered life.

[Captain Turdseye]

2 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

It's a fucking great pub but I'm avoiding it just now as the local man eater has been trying to get her hands on me & I'm not interested.

 

Actually went to another pub last night & got chatting to a stripper, that was an eye opener. Sometimes I realise I've lead a really sheltered life.

 

Haha, me too, I totally get that. 
 

Tell us more about this man eater. Age, looks, reputation, all that shit. I’m intrigued now, I can’t rest until I know more. 

[Mook]

1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

Haha, me too, I totally get that. 
 

Tell us more about this man eater. Age, looks, reputation, all that shit. I’m intrigued now, I can’t rest until I know more. 

 

She's American, 46 I think, died red hair, probably quite fit about 20 years ago.

 

She's been round every bloke in the pub & has been trying to get my number off me & off a couple of other folk. My mate was shagging her but she finished it & I think he's a bit heartbroken so that's another reason to swerve it.

[Captain Turdseye]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

 

She's American, 46 I think, died red hair, probably quite fit about 20 years ago.

 

She's been round every bloke in the pub & has been trying to get my number off me & off a couple of other folk. My mate was shagging her but she finished it & I think he's a bit heartbroken so that's another reason to swerve it.

Haha. Great stuff. 
 

[Bloke]

Some people on here are so indoctrinated by left vs right issue's from 40/50 year's ago that they can't even make their own opinion based on thing's like facts. Tow the party line no matter what it is and everyone else is a cunt. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

6 hours ago, Moo said:

 

Of course they wouldn't be anti-trans and would recognise similar struggles. 

But there are gay people who are uncomfortable with the idea of gay/lesbian erasure, where "queer" (an offensive inflammatory term for many gay people) is used as a catch all and homosexuality, and references to it, is seen as something to be looked down upon. When that happens the pro-gay (not anti-trans) element inevitably feel they need to speak up.

If trans/gender is not about sexuality why alter the gay pride flag? There is a specific trans flag isn't there? Are gay people asking for that to be erased?

Gay people, apart from a minority like that tweeting crank, aren't asking for anything to be erased nor do they fear inclusion. Adding an element to the pride flag to show everyone whose struggles are included doesn't erase gay or lesbian people.

 

(The issue around the word "queer", as far as I can tell, isn't a question of inclusion vs exclusion: it's more of a question of whether it's possible to "reclaim" a word that's been used so hatefully by bigots. It's not really relevant to "get your shit off our flag".)

[Paulie Dangerously]

Come home @Rico1304

[Moo]

1 hour ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Gay people, apart from a minority like that tweeting crank, aren't asking for anything to be erased nor do they fear inclusion. Adding an element to the pride flag to show everyone whose struggles are included doesn't erase gay or lesbian people.

 

(The issue around the word "queer", as far as I can tell, isn't a question of inclusion vs exclusion: it's more of a question of whether it's possible to "reclaim" a word that's been used so hatefully by bigots. It's not really relevant to "get your shit off our flag".)

 

I know language and attitudes change over time, and it's clear there is a generational gap, but it reads like you don't think gays and lesbians have any grounds to be concerned over what's happening at the minute?

You don't think their symbol(s) being diluted is a concerning development for them, or the language used to describe them is concerning when it's offensive to many (not all of course)? You don't think a lesbian unwilling to sleep with a woman with a penis is perfectly acceptable (thus diminishing what it means to be a lesbian)? And a gay man being unwilling to sleep with a man with a vagina is a bigot?

Do you think these concerns shouldn't even be expressed?

[Moo]

5 hours ago, Mook said:

 

He referred to the bloke as a 'he' because he was a bloke.

 

And identifies as a bloke? 

If your mate deliberately misgendered someone then that's a shitty thing to do and I guess your local may have agreed if so.

[Mook]

13 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

And identifies as a bloke? 

If your mate deliberately misgendered someone then that's a shitty thing to do and I guess your local may have agreed if so.

 

I seriously doubt my mate knew what misgendering was before last week.

 

Your average punter in the street sees a bloke so it's a 'he'. How on Earth is anyone meant to know what a complete stranger 'identifies' as?

 

The boy in the dress wasn't remotely bothered, it was one of the bar staff who threw a strop & banned him.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

The boy in the dress wasn't remotely bothered, it was one of the bar staff who threw a strop & banned him.

 

Is there a part of this story you are leaving out?

[Mook]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Is there a part of this story you are leaving out?

 

I wasn't there, I'm just repeating what I heard last night.