Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

A good summary of the report in full.

 

I genuinely find your approach to this utterly bizarre. 

I find your approach - ignoring the facts and trumpeting the tabloid headlines - disappointing: I thought you weren't that gullible and lazy.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

33 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

What I suggested was that what was broken under Corbyn was fixed under Starmer. That’s why special measures have been lifted. That’s just clear from the report and the measures taken since. The broken system that was left unfixed and recommendations ignored by his leadership have now been very thoroughly fixed. That’s a massive improvement. 

Which recommendations were ignored?

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I find your approach - ignoring the facts and trumpeting the tabloid headlines - disappointing: I thought you weren't that gullible and lazy.

Im not ignoring the facts. I’m including them from the report. You’re ignoring the bull of report. It’s because I’m not gullible and I’m not lazy that I’m using the reports to form my view. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Im not ignoring the facts. I’m including them from the report. You’re ignoring the bull of report. It’s because I’m not gullible and I’m not lazy that I’m using the reports to form my view. 

I'm not "ignoring the [bulk?] of the report" - or intending any sort of summary of it (you disingenuous twerp). I'm responding to the specific points you raised.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Okay, I’m done. You clearly are, and to say you’re not isn’t true. I don’t want be called disingenuous for recognising the truth. 

[Carvalho Diablo]

Rarely can I be arsed to venture into the cess pits which are the political threads on the forum, but I've yet to hear anything which Corbyn has said which was anti-Semitic.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Rarely can I be arsed to venture into the cess pits which are the political threads on the forum, but I've yet to hear anything which Corbyn has said which was anti-Semitic.

There’s a reason for that. 

[House of Dirk]

46 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The EHRC Report recognised the improvements made to the complaints process when a Corbyn ally replaced an anti-Corbyn gobshite as General Secretary.

 

As for Corbyn himself, is the suspension of the whip part of Labour's current handling of anti-Semitism cases? If so, it's obvious that there is interference in that process from the Leader's Office. 

 

It's bullshit to suggest there was a massive problem of anti-Semitism and it's bullshit to suggest that there have been massive improvements.

 

 

This is my stance. Never got any straight answers at local or national level (radio silence and a few social media blocks). 

 

This may be difficult for people to comprehend, as I have mentioned before, I live in North Bucks. Former speaker constituency but basically Tory when Bercow started and is now again a Tory seat. so I dont matter to the the Labour management because a thundercunt in a blue rosette will walk away with the seat here. I am a low level rabble rouser when asking what the fuck is going on. I am aware of more prominent Labour supporters in Liverpool and Manchester who have been censured for less. Geography, innit.

 

So, when this all spikes up, there are people, like me, who are genuinely puzzled as to where this has come from. We didnt get a card with our membership packs to be an antisemite.  There never seemed to be a feeling that this was a thing. We joined because we wanted better. We deserve better.  Corbyn struck me as someone who could facilitate this.  From how I recount it, since the comments or liking the picture of that mural, which everybody in the world should have known was antisemtic.

 

Here is the thing. I didnt make any direct link. I am no expert on Jewish culture and I am certainly no art critic. I like what I like and this certainly isnt gonna be hanging on any wall here because its a grotesque. Any symbolism I could see was that the worlds wealth is held by a few undefined individuals propped up by the rest of the world, a significant number of which is in poverty.  But lack of awareness then translates as antisemitism. Then you are on dangerous ground, because other elements then get bracketed which ultimately trivialises what antisemtism is.

 

The media coverage was then a shitshow. You couldnt disseminate truth from smear.  Attempts to do so (Labour files) are met with lukewarm response. In life, vindication usually happens well after the event and impact is limited because everyone has moved on. I am not saying Corbyn didnt help himself in situations, but by then it really didnt matter what he did. The broadside of it then serves the narrative that 'Labour are antisemitic' and this could be levelled at everybody.

 

One of my most moving experiences in life was a visit to the concentration camp in Auschwitz, in 2008. Me and my friend were just leaving after a few hours on the site, taking in the horror and magnitude of the suffering that unfolded. A coachload of Israeli teens had disembarked as we were exiting. ABout 16-18 years old, all in tears as they were approaching the site, carrying flags and no doubt the memories of relatives they never got to meet. My friend, who has a very stoic demeanour, was choked, he rarely gives anything away from an emotional perspective. This stays with me, so when I am deemed antisemetic becuase of a party I was a member of, I take great exception. 

 

I have rambled now and I need to do some work. I am trying to put some emphasis on the frustration of not quite getting the situation.

 

[House of Dirk]

I am not here to change views, because that is impossible, especially here. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Okay, I’m done. You clearly are, and to say you’re not isn’t true. I don’t want be called disingenuous for recognising the truth. 

I clearly am what?

 

I rightly called you disingenuous for the dishonest way you pretended that my response to your specific claims was an attempt to summarise the report. 

[Gnasher]

Another example of Alexie Sayle being 100 percent correct in his description of these right wing gouls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carvalho Diablo]

12 minutes ago, House of Dirk said:

 

 

This is my stance. Never got any straight answers at local or national level (radio silence and a few social media blocks). 

 

This may be difficult for people to comprehend, as I have mentioned before, I live in North Bucks. Former speaker constituency but basically Tory when Bercow started and is now again a Tory seat. so I dont matter to the the Labour management because a thundercunt in a blue rosette will walk away with the seat here. I am a low level rabble rouser when asking what the fuck is going on. I am aware of more prominent Labour supporters in Liverpool and Manchester who have been censured for less. Geography, innit.

 

So, when this all spikes up, there are people, like me, who are genuinely puzzled as to where this has come from. We didnt get a card with our membership packs to be an antisemite.  There never seemed to be a feeling that this was a thing. We joined because we wanted better. We deserve better.  Corbyn struck me as someone who could facilitate this.  From how I recount it, since the comments or liking the picture of that mural, which everybody in the world should have known was antisemtic.

 

Here is the thing. I didnt make any direct link. I am no expert on Jewish culture and I am certainly no art critic. I like what I like and this certainly isnt gonna be hanging on any wall here because its a grotesque. Any symbolism I could see was that the worlds wealth is held by a few undefined individuals propped up by the rest of the world, a significant number of which is in poverty.  But lack of awareness then translates as antisemitism. Then you are on dangerous ground, because other elements then get bracketed which ultimately trivialises what antisemtism is.

 

The media coverage was then a shitshow. You couldnt disseminate truth from smear.  Attempts to do so (Labour files) are met with lukewarm response. In life, vindication usually happens well after the event and impact is limited because everyone has moved on. I am not saying Corbyn didnt help himself in situations, but by then it really didnt matter what he did. The broadside of it then serves the narrative that 'Labour are antisemitic' and this could be levelled at everybody.

 

One of my most moving experiences in life was a visit to the concentration camp in Auschwitz, in 2008. Me and my friend were just leaving after a few hours on the site, taking in the horror and magnitude of the suffering that unfolded. A coachload of Israeli teens had disembarked as we were exiting. ABout 16-18 years old, all in tears as they were approaching the site, carrying flags and no doubt the memories of relatives they never got to meet. My friend, who has a very stoic demeanour, was choked, he rarely gives anything away from an emotional perspective. This stays with me, so when I am deemed antisemetic becuase of a party I was a member of, I take great exception. 

 

I have rambled now and I need to do some work. I am trying to put some emphasis on the frustration of not quite getting the situation.

 

What picture of what mural?

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I clearly am what?

 

I rightly called you disingenuous for the dishonest way you pretended that my response to your specific claims was an attempt to summarise the report. 

Yeah, you’ve called me a prick, a twerp, and disingenuous twice, lazy, and gullible. You can call me whatever you want, no skin off my nose. I just can’t be bothered with it. The report is clear regarding the issues, it was clear in the measures it required to be put in place, and the record of extensive measures used to correct the issues is there and available to all. Insulting comments isn’t going to change those things. That’s all that’s relevant to what I actually said. 
 

You’re a guy who joined Labour because of Corbyn and have defended him ever since. I’ve got no issue with that. I just happen to have said something easily verifiably true and you start the insults because Corbyn is involved. That’s up to you, but I don’t want any part of that with you, so I’m done. 

[Arniepie]

17 minutes ago, House of Dirk said:

I am not here to change views, because that is impossible, especially here. 

anyone with half a brain knows he hasnt got an anti semitic bone in his body.

sadly there are a huge number of people in this country who read how much of a racist he is in the daily mail,but dont have the capacity to ask for actual evidence of the claim. 

[Bjornebye]

12 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

anyone with half a brain knows he hasnt got an anti semitic bone in his body.

sadly there are a huge number of people in this country who read how much of a racist he is in the daily mail,but dont have the capacity to ask for actual evidence of the claim. 

 

I suspect many who know full well he isn't anti-semitic or racist still bang the drum (or slyly implicate) because... well it suits their agenda

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

anyone with half a brain knows he hasnt got an anti semitic bone in his body.

sadly there are a huge number of people in this country who read how much of a racist he is in the daily mail,but dont have the capacity to ask for actual evidence of the claim. 

Ironic that the Mail should ever call anybody else racist. 

[Arniepie]

12 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

I suspect many who know full well he isn't anti-semitic or racist still bang the drum (or slyly implicate) because... well it suits their agenda

yep..he is racist but he just doesnt know it according to baddiel

[Arniepie]

7 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Ironic that the Mail should ever call anybody else racist. 

said it before..its borderline surreal

a home secretary who dreams of deporting immigrants and its corbyn and the left who are massive racists.

The country is a fucking basket case.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

30 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yeah, you’ve called me a prick, a twerp, and disingenuous twice, lazy, and gullible. You can call me whatever you want, no skin off my nose. I just can’t be bothered with it. The report is clear regarding the issues, it was clear in the measures it required to be put in place, and the record of extensive measures used to correct the issues is there and available to all. Insulting comments isn’t going to change those things. That’s all that’s relevant to what I actually said. 
 

You’re a guy who joined Labour because of Corbyn and have defended him ever since. I’ve got no issue with that. I just happen to have said something easily verifiably true and you start the insults because Corbyn is involved. That’s up to you, but I don’t want any part of that with you, so I’m done. 

What a load of nonsense. That litany of stuff I've said is badly cherry-picked for a man who claims to abhor cherry-picking.

 

I said you were being disingenuous and pointed out the specific example of it. It's there in black and white.

 

I didn't call you lazy and gullible; I said it's surprising that you are acting lazy and gullible in this instance. There's a difference.

 

The report is clear. It's also clearly being misrepresented by the Corbyn-obsessives in the media, the Tory Party and the Labour leadership. It's lazy and gullible to parrot their line, rather than what the report actually says.

 

Like hundreds of thousands of people, I joined the Labour Party when it looked like moving towards the politics I believe in; that would have happened whoever was leader. I haven't "defended him ever since" in the way you imply. I do, however, have a general contempt for the tactic of repeating lies until they assume the patina of truth; it's a tactic that's been used relentlessly against the left wing of the Labour Party since 2015. The idea that you're posting the obvious truth and I'm flinging insults because I'm in love with some old geezer is laughable.

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

said it before..its borderline surreal

a home secretary who dreams of deporting immigrants and its corbyn and the left who are massive racists.

The country is a fucking basket case.

 

Well it's the Labour leadership who's kicking him out, not the country. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What a load of nonsense. That litany of stuff I've said is badly cherry-picked for a man who claims to abhor cherry-picking.

 

I said you were being disingenuous and pointed out the specific example of it. It's there in black and white.

 

I didn't call you lazy and gullible; I said it's surprising that you are acting lazy and gullible in this instance. There's a difference.

 

The report is clear. It's also clearly being misrepresented by the Corbyn-obsessives in the media, the Tory Party and the Labour leadership. It's lazy and gullible to parrot their line, rather than what the report actually says.

 

Like hundreds of thousands of people, I joined the Labour Party when it looked like moving towards the politics I believe in; that would have happened whoever was leader. I haven't "defended him ever since" in the way you imply. I do, however, have a general contempt for the tactic of repeating lies until they assume the patina of truth; it's a tactic that's been used relentlessly against the left wing of the Labour Party since 2015. The idea that you're posting the obvious truth and I'm flinging insults because I'm in love with some old geezer is laughable.

You find it laughable, I find it an obvious truth. Not much more to do really. Most of that doesn’t have anything to do with anything I said. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

You find it laughable, I find it an obvious truth. Not much more to do really. Most of that doesn’t have anything to do with anything I said. 

It's all about what you have posted here, in the last couple of pages. You can't honestly deny what's right in front of you.

 

Anyway, which recommendations were ignored?

[Gnasher]

Corbs says he's standing..for Labour!!

 

 

 

 

[Arniepie]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Corbs says he's standing..for Labour!!

 

 

 

 

this is getting messy

[House of Dirk]

1 hour ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

What picture of what mural?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural