Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Numero Veinticinco]

40 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

 

 

Socialism 

 

This comment you keep making in response to me responding to Gnasher 'socialism'. I mean, I'm obviously as thick as pigshit and a Tory - these are things I've learned from illiterate liars during my time here - but when I learned about political ideology at university, there was nothing about not giving your view on the values of an individual, especially one that keeps lying about you, insulting you, threatening you, and insulting your family. Thanks for teaching me this lesson. Fine, I'm not a socialist. What now? It's capitalistic to insult people? Fine, none of this is real or bothers me at all. 

 

It's interesting though, you've never picked up anybody else and responded with 'socialism' in response to anything they said. I wonder why that is. Well, I know why it is, I just wonder if you do. 

 

I look forward to a laughing emjoi or a burp or whatever mindless, unthinking drivel is sent in response to this. I was hoping for a sensible response to the point you made about you wanting poor people to pay for rich people's internet. Socialism. 

[Gnasher]

8 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Great news that the EHRC recognise the massive improvements made under Starmer, fixing what was so badly broken under Corbyn. A some what credible organisation. 

 

Might be for you, not so great for him, or doesn't he count?.

 

 

[Anubis]

9 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Some of the most horrible cunts on the Earth. I bet that’s an interesting ranking table. 

Don’t panic, you’re still in top spot…

[Gnasher]

One in one out.

 

Latest Labour capture. This was August 22. February 23 joins the Labour Party.

 

[Bjornebye]

Labour is becoming unrecognisable. Too many self-serving shitehawks involved. 

 

Probably one for the Starmer thread as opposed to the thread about a man who has dedicated his life to campaigning for others. 

[Arniepie]

 

if you can’t say anything nice about someone,dont say nothing at all.

 

a concept serverly tested when it comes to Margaret Hodge

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Why is it bad? I support mandatory reselection. The point here is that he won’t make the short list, surely? Again, this isn’t something that bothered them until it’s used against their interest. This cry of ‘democratic freedoms’ is nonsense. 
 

It’s not nuts, it’s obvious and he did it anyway. No amount of bluster will avoid that. 

In what world would Labour Party members in Islington North not select Corbyn? The only thing stopping them is interference from the Leader's Office. 

 

As for the other bit, we'll just have to disagree on the definition of "nuts".

[AngryOfTuebrook]

14 hours ago, Strontium said:

What are the issues facing people in Islington North that mandate a 400 mile round trip to Liverpool?

Because MPs should never be allowed to campaign on national issues. Obviously.

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Because MPs should never be allowed to campaign on national issues. Obviously.

 

Some people are scared of decency. Look what happened to Ian Byrne when he brought up food-banks in the commons. Oh shit sorry, food pantries. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

10 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Great news that the EHRC recognise the massive improvements made under Starmer, fixing what was so badly broken under Corbyn. A some what credible organisation. 

The EHRC Report recognised the improvements made to the complaints process when a Corbyn ally replaced an anti-Corbyn gobshite as General Secretary.

 

As for Corbyn himself, is the suspension of the whip part of Labour's current handling of anti-Semitism cases? If so, it's obvious that there is interference in that process from the Leader's Office. 

 

It's bullshit to suggest there was a massive problem of anti-Semitism and it's bullshit to suggest that there have been massive improvements.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

 

Might be for you, not so great for him, or doesn't he count?.

 

 

Gawd, not this tripe again

[Numero Veinticinco]

29 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

In what world would Labour Party members in Islington North not select Corbyn? The only thing stopping them is interference from the Leader's Office. 

 

As for the other bit, we'll just have to disagree on the definition of "nuts".

There is no world in which they wouldn’t select Corbyn. I agree with you on that. Not only that but I think they should have to chose him every single time there’s a general election. However.l, under Corbyn they brought in new selection rules surrounding long lists and short lists, they wanted this to have control and force out the centre. It wasn’t a horrific abuse to democracy in their opinion then when they agreed it. It’s only horrific now it’s being used against them. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

17 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It's bullshit to suggest there was a massive problem of anti-Semitism and it's bullshit to suggest that there have been massive improvements.

What I suggested was that what was broken under Corbyn was fixed under Starmer. That’s why special measures have been lifted. That’s just clear from the report and the measures taken since. The broken system that was left unfixed and recommendations ignored by his leadership have now been very thoroughly fixed. That’s a massive improvement. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Some facts about "Labour's anti-Semitism crisis".

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

The broken system that was left unfixed and recommendations ignored by his leadership have now been very thoroughly fixed. That’s a massive improvement. 

That's just bollocks. The ECHR Report acknowledged improvements (when a Corbyn ally became General Secretary).  Far from ignoring the problem, he was specifically censured by the EHRC for getting too involved in it.

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That's just bollocks. The ECHR Report acknowledged improvements (when a Corbyn ally became General Secretary).  Far from ignoring the problem, he was specifically censured by the EHRC for getting too involved in it.

A good summary of the report in full.

 

I genuinely find your approach to this utterly bizarre. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

16 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

A good summary of the report in full.

 

I genuinely find your approach to this utterly bizarre. 

I find your approach - ignoring the facts and trumpeting the tabloid headlines - disappointing: I thought you weren't that gullible and lazy.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

33 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

What I suggested was that what was broken under Corbyn was fixed under Starmer. That’s why special measures have been lifted. That’s just clear from the report and the measures taken since. The broken system that was left unfixed and recommendations ignored by his leadership have now been very thoroughly fixed. That’s a massive improvement. 

Which recommendations were ignored?

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I find your approach - ignoring the facts and trumpeting the tabloid headlines - disappointing: I thought you weren't that gullible and lazy.

Im not ignoring the facts. I’m including them from the report. You’re ignoring the bull of report. It’s because I’m not gullible and I’m not lazy that I’m using the reports to form my view. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Im not ignoring the facts. I’m including them from the report. You’re ignoring the bull of report. It’s because I’m not gullible and I’m not lazy that I’m using the reports to form my view. 

I'm not "ignoring the [bulk?] of the report" - or intending any sort of summary of it (you disingenuous twerp). I'm responding to the specific points you raised.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Okay, I’m done. You clearly are, and to say you’re not isn’t true. I don’t want be called disingenuous for recognising the truth. 

[Carvalho Diablo]

Rarely can I be arsed to venture into the cess pits which are the political threads on the forum, but I've yet to hear anything which Corbyn has said which was anti-Semitic.

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Rarely can I be arsed to venture into the cess pits which are the political threads on the forum, but I've yet to hear anything which Corbyn has said which was anti-Semitic.

There’s a reason for that. 

[House of Dirk]

46 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The EHRC Report recognised the improvements made to the complaints process when a Corbyn ally replaced an anti-Corbyn gobshite as General Secretary.

 

As for Corbyn himself, is the suspension of the whip part of Labour's current handling of anti-Semitism cases? If so, it's obvious that there is interference in that process from the Leader's Office. 

 

It's bullshit to suggest there was a massive problem of anti-Semitism and it's bullshit to suggest that there have been massive improvements.

 

 

This is my stance. Never got any straight answers at local or national level (radio silence and a few social media blocks). 

 

This may be difficult for people to comprehend, as I have mentioned before, I live in North Bucks. Former speaker constituency but basically Tory when Bercow started and is now again a Tory seat. so I dont matter to the the Labour management because a thundercunt in a blue rosette will walk away with the seat here. I am a low level rabble rouser when asking what the fuck is going on. I am aware of more prominent Labour supporters in Liverpool and Manchester who have been censured for less. Geography, innit.

 

So, when this all spikes up, there are people, like me, who are genuinely puzzled as to where this has come from. We didnt get a card with our membership packs to be an antisemite.  There never seemed to be a feeling that this was a thing. We joined because we wanted better. We deserve better.  Corbyn struck me as someone who could facilitate this.  From how I recount it, since the comments or liking the picture of that mural, which everybody in the world should have known was antisemtic.

 

Here is the thing. I didnt make any direct link. I am no expert on Jewish culture and I am certainly no art critic. I like what I like and this certainly isnt gonna be hanging on any wall here because its a grotesque. Any symbolism I could see was that the worlds wealth is held by a few undefined individuals propped up by the rest of the world, a significant number of which is in poverty.  But lack of awareness then translates as antisemitism. Then you are on dangerous ground, because other elements then get bracketed which ultimately trivialises what antisemtism is.

 

The media coverage was then a shitshow. You couldnt disseminate truth from smear.  Attempts to do so (Labour files) are met with lukewarm response. In life, vindication usually happens well after the event and impact is limited because everyone has moved on. I am not saying Corbyn didnt help himself in situations, but by then it really didnt matter what he did. The broadside of it then serves the narrative that 'Labour are antisemitic' and this could be levelled at everybody.

 

One of my most moving experiences in life was a visit to the concentration camp in Auschwitz, in 2008. Me and my friend were just leaving after a few hours on the site, taking in the horror and magnitude of the suffering that unfolded. A coachload of Israeli teens had disembarked as we were exiting. ABout 16-18 years old, all in tears as they were approaching the site, carrying flags and no doubt the memories of relatives they never got to meet. My friend, who has a very stoic demeanour, was choked, he rarely gives anything away from an emotional perspective. This stays with me, so when I am deemed antisemetic becuase of a party I was a member of, I take great exception. 

 

I have rambled now and I need to do some work. I am trying to put some emphasis on the frustration of not quite getting the situation.

 

[House of Dirk]

I am not here to change views, because that is impossible, especially here.