Should the UK remain a member of the EU

[njackets]

About 2/3 of people who voted Labour in the 2015 General Election voted Remain in 2016. That's from the Ashcroft survey, which is still the best assessment of who voted what.

 

I didn't challenge that, because it's correct.

 

(The bit about "70% of Labour constituencies" is a different statistic altogether.)

It's impossible to tell whether the first stat is acurate, it can't be too hard with the second, I'm not sure both can be true.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

It's impossible to tell whether the first stat is acurate, it can't be too hard with the second, I'm not sure both can be true.

Why not?

 

If you understand about statistics I'm sure you could contact the Ashcroft organisation to find out their methodology to see whether or not it was sound. In any case it is generally recognised as the most reliable statistics we have.

 

Both statistics can clearly be true. The point about 70% of Labour constituencies is that it also counts non-Labour voters in those constituencies. It's not a particularly useful statistic, because the Referendum wasn't counted that way.

[njackets]

Why not?

 

If you understand about statistics I'm sure you could contact the Ashcroft organisation to find out their methodology to see whether or not it was sound. In any case it is generally recognised as the most reliable statistics we have.

 

Both statistics can clearly be true. The point about 70% of Labour constituencies is that it also counts non-Labour voters in those constituencies. It's not a particularly useful statistic, because the Referendum wasn't counted that way.

It's a fair point, but let's not pretend it was all the none Labour voters in the Labour constituencies voting for leave and visa versa.

 

Lets not pretend the thick, unemployed, racist, Northern leave voting stereotype that's done the rounds in here votes Tory either.

[skend04]

It's a fair point, but let's not pretend it was all the none Labour voters in the Labour constituencies voting for leave and visa versa.

 

Lets not pretend the thick, unemployed, racist, Northern leave voting stereotype that's done the rounds in here votes Tory either.

Immigrants make up something like 1% of Sunderland's population and the north east is actually losing its population and needs people to move there to sustain any kind of business model. Yet somehow the EU and immigration has blighted the Mackem's lives. I'd say they are a bit thick at best.

[njackets]

Immigrants make up something like 1% of Sunderland's population and the north east is actually losing its population and needs people to move there to sustain any kind of business model. Yet somehow the EU and immigration has blighted the Mackem's lives. I'd say they are a bit thick at best.

Yes you're absolutely right to brand 82,394 people as thick for not voting the same way as you, judging the motives for why they ALL voted the way they did.

 

I could imagine the uproar in here now if a Mackem came in here and said he voted the way he did because the 82,394 immigrants that live in the North East are all lazy benefit scroungers.

[cloggypop]

Education was a much more useful indicator of vote though. The more educated a person the more likely they were to vote remain. It's all in the Ashcroft report.

 

Or to put it more simply for you, thick people were much more likely to vote leave.

[VladimirIlyich]

Education was a much more useful indicator of vote though. The more educated a person the more likely they were to vote remain. It's all in the Ashcroft report.

 

Or to put it more simply for you, thick people were much more likely to vote leave.

Unfortunately most Labour voters are the least educated,academical qualifications of course. Having said this though it doesn't take much to work out how much we have benefited from the EU versus how much we havent from our own governments. You'd have to be a special kind of moron not to see how much Merseyside has been regenerated since the devastation of Thatcherism and not see how EU money has helped in that regeneration. As for Sunderland,I would guess that EU money may have been a big reason as to why Nissan located there and have stayed since.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Imagine being in a position where Tony fucking Blair can call you out on your dishonesty.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I doubt you'll find many SNP or LibDem voters who voted Leave.

Same proportion as Labour voters.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Immigrants make up something like 1% of Sunderland's population and the north east is actually losing its population and needs people to move there to sustain any kind of business model. Yet somehow the EU and immigration has blighted the Mackem's lives. I'd say they are a bit thick at best.

I prefer the word "gulled".

 

I suspect people didn't vote in the Referendum on the basis of what was best for their town; it was a national issue, so I suspect people were motivated by what they believed was best for the country.  People in the UK have, for decades, been routinely lied to about the scale and the negative impacts of both immigration and of EU "interference".

 

Given the consistent noise of anti-EU, xenophobic propaganda over the years, it's quite impressive that almost half the population voted to remain.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Regarding education and class etc, is it just a coincidence that everybody on the news reports who was brassy, loud, coarse, spouting ill informed, irrelevant shite and who wouldn't look out of place on a Jeremy Kyle line up just so happened to vote leave then?

 

Hmmmmmmm?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Regarding education and class etc, is it just a coincidence that everybody on the news reports who was brassy, loud, coarse, spouting ill informed, irrelevant shite and who wouldn't look out of place on a Jeremy Kyle line up just so happened to vote leave then?

 

Hmmmmmmm?

 

NJ was knocked back by JK for being to thick. 

[dennis tooth]

[magicrat]

Imagine being in a position where Tony fucking Blair can call you out on your dishonesty.

 

Much as I dislike Blair he was right in everything he said recently about Brexit. IDS and Johnson are in a completely different league of scumbag

[Barrington Womble]

Much as I dislike Blair he was right in everything he said recently about Brexit. IDS and Johnson are in a completely different league of scumbag

 

for me it illustrates the sorry position the labour party is in, when the most sense from a labour figure on this subject has had to be a tory war monger. 

[njackets]

for me it illustrates the sorry position the labour party is in, when the most sense from a labour figure on this subject has had to be a tory war monger.

When Tony Blair is the only person of note in politics making sense and standing up for my political believes it's time to re access my position.

 

Soz to point out the glaringly obvious but no one else seems to be...

[Barrington Womble]

When Tony Blair is the only person of note in politics making sense and standing up for my political believes it's time to re access my position.

 

Soz to point out the glaringly obvious but know one else seems to be...

You back farage, Johnson and another bunch of fucking scumbags. It wasn't very long ago there was only farage and the likes of combat 18 backing your line. You're in no place to criticise anyone's position.

[njackets]

You back farage, Johnson and another bunch of fucking scumbags. It wasn't very long ago there was only farage and the likes of combat 18 backing your line. You're in no place to criticise anyone's position.

Yes mate there's now 17million plus of us Combat 18 lot, but we still don't have anywhere near as close as the blood on our hands as your new political poster boy!

[Barrington Womble]

Yes mate there's now 17million plus of us Combat 18 lot, but we still don't have anywhere near as close as the blood on our hands as your new political poster boy!

And you're proud of the fact you're in the racist gang. Fuck knows how much blood would be on the hands of you and yours if you ever got near power.

[njackets]

And you're proud of the fact you're in the racist gang. Fuck knows how much blood would be on the hands of you and yours if you ever got near power.

Go and have a lie down mate Haha Combat 18 we've gone full on hysterics in here now!

[Fugitive]

Go and have a lie down mate Haha Combat 18 we've gone full on hysterics in here now!

You are a horrible cunt though.

[njackets]

You are a horrible cunt though.

You add so much to this thread!

[Barrington Womble]

Go and have a lie down mate Haha Combat 18 we've gone full on hysterics in here now!

You were revelling in it a few posts back, don't drop your mates now.

[njackets]

Jeremy Corbyn Tells Tony Blair To Respect The Result

 

Tony Blair's call for a cross-party movement to try to force a change of course on Brexit is "unhelpful", Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has said.

 

Mr Corbyn urged the former Labour prime minister to "respect" the referendum result and work on helping to define the UK's future EU relationship.

 

In a speech on Friday, Mr Blair said that a weakened Labour Party was acting as "the facilitator of Brexit".

But Mr Corbyn said: "We are going to be outside the European Union."

Speaking in the City of London, Mr Blair said that the British people had made the referendum decision without knowing on what terms Britain would leave the European Union.

 

He said pro-Europeans needed to build a movement across party lines to challenge Brexit, in the absence of effective opposition in Westminster.

"The debilitation of the Labour Party is the facilitator of Brexit. I hate to say that, but it is true," he said.

 

Mr Corbyn told reporters at the party's conference on local government at Warwick University on Saturday: "Well, it's not helpful.

"The referendum gave a result, gave a very clear decision on this, and we have to respect that decision, that's why we didn't block Article 50.

"But we are going to be part of all this campaigning, all these negotiations about the kind of relationship we have in Europe in the future."

He added: "The referendum happened, let's respect the result. Democracy happened, respect the result."

 

Media captionTony Blair wants the UK to find "a way out from the present rush over the cliff's edge"

Mr Corbyn rejected Mr Blair's suggestion that the party was weak, pointing to its surge in membership to more than 500,000.

"I don't quite know what Tony means there. Our party membership has more than doubled, we had a big campaign to remain and reform the European Union," he said.

"We are now pursuing a policy which will try and protect jobs and conditions across this country but also maintain a good relationship with colleagues across Europe."

 

Mr Corbyn urged Mr Blair to get behind the party's vision of a future outside the European Union with high investment and reduced inequality, rather than a low-tax economy aligned with the US under President Donald Trump.

 

He said: "We are going to be outside the European Union. We are not leaving the continent of Europe, we are still going to work with them.

"I think it would be helpful if people put their energies in the direction of building those good relations and ensuring we have a viable economy, not some offshore tax haven bargain basement, doing deals with Trump's America.

"My job is to take our party forward into an investment-led economy that reduces inequality in this country, that builds houses when people need them, that gets the good jobs people need in the hi-tech industries the National Investment Bank will fund.

"Get on board with that strategy."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39016392?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_daily_politics_and_sunday_politics&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=news_central

[magicrat]

Corbyn is wrong

The referendum was not clear either in its consequences or the result

Or for that matter who had the franchise .excluding ex pats and youngsters with the most to lose was also wrong