January 2014 Transfer Thread

[Russ Atmosphere]

We've had loads of injuries in midfield and Alberto hasn't started a single game. That can't be about easing in, he's not ready for the team.

[Paco]

But they're still in the playing squad and available for selection.

 

The fact they haven't been thrown in just to justify the signings isn't the issue, I'd much rather they were eased in and became features at the club for a number of years than thrown in and sink without trace before they're ready.

 

The lack of playing time for both can be attributed to our lack of games

which is what could now happen with brad smith

[Cardie]

We've had loads of injuries in midfield and Alberto hasn't started a single game. That can't be about easing in, he's not ready for the team.

 

Which is why he's being eased in?

[Captain]

But they're still in the playing squad and available for selection.

 

The fact they haven't been thrown in just to justify the signings isn't the issue, I'd much rather they were eased in and became features at the club for a number of years than thrown in and sink without trace before they're ready.

 

For me that's exactly the issue. We've spent many millions on players not ready to go straight into the first XI.

 

Buy first teamers that relegate the incumbent first teamers to the bench.

 

We need players NOW, not next season.

[Cardie]

which is what could now happen with brad smith

 

Is that the same thing?

 

He came on in a specific circumstance (presumably with a view to making a nuisance of himself in midfield chasing down the Chelsea midfielders), if Allen hadn't been injured I doubt he'd have played at all and we might have seen him get a few minutes in a few games time if we were already winning.

 

It's not like we're doing a Real Madrid and forcing him to play game after game because we followed a ridiculous 'Pavons and Galacticos' policy that meant we have no other choice and will see him subbed in tears.

[Russ Atmosphere]

We never eased Coutinho in, Alberto and him are the same age.

[Barrington Womble]

Which is why he's being eased in?

But is that not the point people are making, try to identify players who don't need a season of easing in,but can go right into the team?

 

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[Cardie]

For me that's exactly the issue. We've spent many millions on players not ready to go straight into the first XI.

 

Buy first teamers that relegate the incumbent first teamers to the bench.

 

We need players NOW, not next season.

 

It seems like you want the dream scenario that doesn't exist in any real world application (outside of, say, the odd oligarch/ middle eastern benefactor and even then you could find examples of it).

 

All clubs have to cut their cloth accordingly and work within the budget they allocate. We could have not signed lots of players saved it all up and bought one world class player, the squad wouldn't necessarily be any better off for it (the first team may have but it would be a flimsy foundation to build on).

 

The reality is it's rare a club will be able to fill a squad with first team caliber players from 1-25 so have to mix it between first team players, players with potential and squad players and allocate those funds accordingly in the hope that the potential is fulfilled and you save yourselves millions.

 

It's not like any of this is new to any club in this country or any other.

[Cardie]

But is that not the point people are making, try to identify players who don't need a season of easing in,but can go right into the team?

 

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And if it was that easy all clubs would be doing it, but they're not. some players adapt straight away some don't. It's not one size fit's all process.

[Cardie]

We never eased Coutinho in, Alberto and him are the same age.

 

So the result should be the same?

[Russ Atmosphere]

So the result should be the same?

Who can know in football, but it demonstrates that Coutinho is good enough so he plays and Alberto isn't so he doesn't.

[Barrington Womble]

And if it was that easy all clubs would be doing it, but they're not. some players adapt straight away some don't. It's not one size fit's all process.

I agree its not, but would you have expected either ilori or Alberto to have been able to make more of a contribution? I would say that's fairly predictable. However players who've played at a higher level and maybe some CL are more likely to be ready to play PL. Doesn't mean its a sure thing, but it makes chances of them playing better.

 

 

 

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[celeryBADboy]

Looks like the Eqyption is done cant wait to here the song we give him

 

To Rhiana umbrella Mohamed Salah Salah salah eh eh eh

[Cardie]

Who can know in football, but it demonstrates that Coutinho is good enough so he plays and Alberto isn't so he doesn't.

 

I agree its not, but would you have expected either ilori or Alberto to have been able to make more of a contribution? I would say that's fairly predictable. However players who've played at a higher level and maybe some CL are more likely to be ready to play PL. Doesn't mean its a sure thing, but it makes chances of them playing better.

 

 

 

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In a season where we've played 21 games and only relatively recently have the injuries stacked up in any great number?

 

You would assume the club, any club, is thinking longer term for all the players and have plans for the next game, next 10 games, next 38 games.

[Barrington Womble]

In a season where we've played 21 games and only relatively recently have the injuries stacked up in any great number?

 

You would assume the club, any club, is thinking longer term for all the players and have plans for the next game, next 10 games, next 38 games.

We struggled for numbers in midfield and across the front 3 all season with Allen, Suarez, coutinho and sturridge all missing large parts of the season and Henderson has played right back at times. Alberto still hasn't got much of a look in. Equally, we're so deep at centre back, it could be seasons before ilori gets a go. I don't mind planning for the future, providing we are planning for the present and I don't think we are.

 

I am also a great believer in young players need games, which is why I'm not too hung up about the likes of suso and wisdom being on loan. We've spent enough money on both ilori and alberto to expect they can at least start a few games (like flanno, sterling have done), at a time when our squad is so thin I don't think its unreasonable to expect all of them to be capable of starting or for us to have enough balance in the squad they have a chance to get near the team.

 

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[TheHowieLama]

We've spent enough money on both ilori and alberto to expect they can at least start a few games (like flanno, sterling have done), 

 

 

 

Disagree - especially on Ilori - he was not bought to play this year.

 

I think Alberto suffers from not being able to play wide - if he could he would get some games. Now did Rodgers know that when they bought him - not sure, but I do think that pretty quickly it was decided that physically he cannot operate as a wide player in our system, especially in a end to end, hotly contested match like Chelsea away. Equally he cannot seem to play as one of three CM's - so that means he is squarely behind Coutinho if playing in the middle of a 3 with a sole striker and is behind Aspas if playing in the hole/second striker.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Disagree - especially on Ilori - he was not bought to play this year.

 

I think Alberto suffers from not being able to play wide - if he could he would get some games. Now did Rodgers know that when they bought him - not sure, but I do think that pretty quickly it was decided that physically he cannot operate as a wide player in our system, especially in a end to end, hotly contested match like Chelsea away. Equally he cannot seem to play as one of three CM's - so that means he is squarely behind Coutinho if playing in the middle of a 3 with a sole striker and is behind Aspas if playing in the hole/second striker.

 

I think the main problem for Alberto is his lack of pace. The same is true of Lucas, Allen and even Gerrard these days, and that's become a major problem.

 

Henderson has to do a LOT of running.

[Barrington Womble]

Disagree - especially on Ilori - he was not bought to play this year.

 

I think Alberto suffers from not being able to play wide - if he could he would get some games. Now did Rodgers know that when they bought him - not sure, but I do think that pretty quickly it was decided that physically he cannot operate as a wide player in our system. Equally he cannot seem to play as one of three CM's - so that means he is squarely behind Coutinho if playing in the middle of a 3 with a sole striker and is behind Aspas if playing in the hole/second striker.

I don't disagree there was never a plan for ilori to play this season. It would seem clear he could never get near the team. That's my point and I think others on the thread. At a time when financially we seem incapable of putting together a squad with the depth to play a season, it seems wasteful to spend 7m on a player who we don't even plan to play, he's just another name on that list of U20's or whatever it was usher posted a few weeks back.

 

As for alberto, I don't know what the plan was and my worry is we didn't really have one. We just saw someone who is perceived to be a young talent and we thought we could be opportunistic as his club needed money. My reading of things Rodgers has said previously is he was seen as a replacement for shelvey, so I think they've always thought he was someone playing in that central 3, but they clearly don't trust him to play there.

 

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[Barrington Womble]

I think the main problem for Alberto is his lack of pace. The same is true of Lucas, Allen and even Gerrard these days, and that's become a major problem.

 

Henderson has to do a LOT of running.

That must have been identifiable before we signed him though surely?

 

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[TheHowieLama]

I think Ilori has been escape goated here. He is widely seen as one of the top young talents. 

That U-20 list did not have many, if any, players of that quality on it. I don't mind that money being spent tbh. 

 

Alberto - I think some wires got crossed - he has none of Shelvey's willingness to get stuck in - something that is a given in this league if you want to play in the middle. He's not mobile enough to operate there. Neither was Shelvey tbh.

[Carvalho Diablo]

That must have been identifiable before we signed him though surely?

 

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I agree. Even more baffling.

[manwiththestick]

Looks like the Eqyption is done cant wait to here the song we give him

 

To Rhiana umbrella Mohamed Salah Salah salah eh eh eh

 

You'll be on your own with that one.

[Barrington Womble]

I think Ilori has been escape goated here. He is widely seen as one of the top young talents. 

That U-20 list did not have many, if any, players of that quality on it. I don't mind that money being spent tbh. 

 

Alberto - I think some wires got crossed - he has none of Shelvey's willingness to get stuck in - something that is a given in this league if you want to play in the middle. He's not mobile enough to operate there. Neither was Shelvey tbh.

The thing is though it is not a question of the players being the scapegoat, it's about the squad not being big enough and we're expected to assume that is because we need to live within our means and we sign a player who probably won't start a game for 2 years. It's not Ilori's fault, it's the fault of whoever thought this squad was big enough for a full season and prioritised potential for the future over a player for today.

 

Rodgers has said a few times about Alberto coming in for "the likes of shelvey who we didn't want to leave, but they left for games" (paraphrasing btw)

[Phoenix]

The bigger question is why was Iago Aspas bought? Someone who has played left wing. if he cant get on in a vital match before a 19 year old playing out of position when will he ever be able to.

 

If the decision to bring on Brad Smith was political then thats a huge mistake. From a  game where we could have rescued a point.

[Nightcat]

we failed to rescue a point, because were denied a clear a penalty, not because Smith came on.