Oldham away match thread

[Major Tom]

Howzabout NOT chucking 3 of them in to a brand new back 4/5 when you know there will be a battle.

 

Who are the three kids he 'chucked in'? He 'chucked in' one; Robinson. The term 'kid' is a misnomer anyway. If you're good enough, you're old enough. As plenty of players have shown throughout the years. Just because you're a teenager, doesn't mean you're a 'kid'. Not in the pejorative way you are using it, anyway

 

If you have make up bullshit to bulk out your argument, it's fair to say your argument wasn't much cop to begin with.

[ZonkoVille77]

It baffles me that he didn't observe teams ABOVE US get knocked out and think "Thats not happening to us, I'm gonna put the best boys on, finish the game inside 60 minutes then hook my best three off asap".

No, he puts out a back four that have never played together and a goalkeeper I wouldn't trust to catch a cold. Why put Robinison on, a kid you haven't given a game to since you pitched up in an FA cup match away from home? Also Coates, a player you've blatently frozen out of the first team in preference to Carra but you decide now is the best time to play him. Would've been best on the bench on brought on for Carra once the game was sewn up. Too many players on the pitch playing like strangers.

Embarrassed on national tv.

 

Firstly, that team he put out should have been enough to beat them.

Secondly, our league games are more important. We're not too far off 4th and he rightly saved players for that push.

[thompsonsnose]

Who are the three kids he 'chucked in'? He 'chucked in' one; Robinson. The term 'kid' is a misnomer anyway. If you're good enough, you're old enough. As plenty of players have shown throughout the years. Just because you're a teenager, doesn't mean you're a 'kid'. Not in the pejorative way you are using it, anyway

 

If you have make up bullshit to bulk out your argument, it's fair to say your argument wasn't much cop to begin with.

 

The term "kid" is Football 365s not mine. Have a go at them if you like.

 

I don't care what they are or who they are.

 

He introduced Coates and Robinson to a back 4 that also contained Andre Wisdom another player with little experience.

"Protected" by a virtually invisible midfield.

Nobody is saying Carragher is a first teamer anymore, but he was clearly needed yesterday from the off. To suggest otherwise is complete bollocks.

 

Rodgers clearly doesn't think Coates IS good enough whatever his age, and i don't really know why he expected Coates to fight for the shirt given that he clearly doesn't rate him and appears to be trying to move him out of the club. But suddenly hes ok to go out there and sweat blood? OK......

I don't need a "brain mechanic" to work out that Coates wouldn't really be arsed.

I don't think any of that is bullshit.

Thanks.

[Guest San Don]

Firstly, that team he put out should have been enough to beat them.

Secondly, our league games are more important. We're not too far off 4th and he rightly saved players for that push.

 

You see, I have problems with this 'team should be enough to beat' stuff. Since day one of football, that rule has been broken. Its 11 v 11 once the game starts. It also shows a lack of respect to the oppos, whoever they are, as well.

 

We should have been good enough to beat villa yet they whopped us on home ground ffs then proceeded to conceed something like 14 goals in their next 3 games.

 

I find it hard to believe we didnt scout oldham and would have been aware of their physical presence or style. Yet we started a game with sterling and allen who are both pretty lightweight in terms of possession.

 

If the league games are more important, why was Suarez on from the start? Why were Gerrard, Carragher and downing even on the bench for that matter?

 

Cup shocks happen and yet again, we were on the wrong end of one. It doesnt make it any more palitable though.

 

TBH, Im more fucking annoyed with the manager once again shooting from the lip and publically lambasting his 'young players.' Sort that shit out in private will you rodgers.

 

Im sorry but Im rapidly losing my patience with this manager.

[Whelan]

You see, I have problems with this 'team should be enough to beat' stuff. Since day one of football, that rule has been broken. Its 11 v 11 once the game starts. It also shows a lack of respect to the oppos, whoever they are, as well.

 

We should have been good enough to beat villa yet they whopped us on home ground ffs then proceeded to conceed something like 14 goals in their next 3 games.

 

I find it hard to believe we didnt scout oldham and would have been aware of their physical presence or style. Yet we started a game with sterling and allen who are both pretty lightweight in terms of possession.

 

If the league games are more important, why was Suarez on from the start? Why were Gerrard, Carragher and downing even on the bench for that matter?

 

Cup shocks happen and yet again, we were on the wrong end of one. It doesnt make it any more palitable though.

 

TBH, Im more fucking annoyed with the manager once again shooting from the lip and publically lambasting his 'young players.' Sort that shit out in private will you rodgers.

 

Im sorry but Im rapidly losing my patience with this manager.

 

We didn't scout Oldham? Sorry have I missed something here, considering Carragher was dropped for Coates that would suggest that we DID scout Oldham.

[Guest San Don]

We didn't scout Oldham? Sorry have I missed something here, considering Carragher was dropped for Coates that would suggest that we DID scout Oldham.

 

Yes, I dont think English is your first language, that's why you missed the 'I find it hard to believe we didnt scout oldham.'

 

The bit in bold is your clue.

[Randy Marsh]

Yesterday had made a massive week for us even harder.

 

I can see both arguments in this. BR clearly played what fans would consider a weakened team, although one that contained 9 full internationals. As much as I believe the team that started should have won the match, if he does rest certain key players and we lose he leaves himself open for criticism. Personally, I've been an advocate of giving Stevie some bench time to ensure he is fit and sharp, so against lower league opposition with Arsenal and City ahead this week I think it makes total sense to use this match as an opportunity to rest him.

 

In BR's defence, FSG have shown that the domestic cup competitions carry little weight with their sacking of Kenny. If he has been told to give the cups bottom billing then he's not going to send out all of the big guns against Oldham. But lets not forget this was hardly a youth side we fielded, there was a £50m strikeforce on the field, £30m worth of midfielders and players who've played in World Cups. A much weaker team went to WBA and won in the league cup.

 

Our problems go beyond selection, it's an inherent shithouseness when faced with physically intimidating opposition. They roughed us up and we couldn't handle it. It's all very well playing your nice passing game against a side like Norwich who'll give you the space to play your game, but you've got to be able to mix it when teams go toe to toe with you. By and large we can't. If I was any manager managing a side facing us the team talk and tactics would be simple. Go long, go direct, get in our faces and rough us up. Too many shithouses in the squad who are happy to put a shift in when we're 3-0 up at Anfield but go missing when we're in a dogfight against a Stoke, a Mansfield, an Oldham, even a Man Utd as the first hour showed us the other week. Unless we add steel to the squad we risk being an Arsenal MK II, looking like Barcelona at home against the dross, but a soft touch when it really matters.

 

I don't think Brendan is stupid, but it's down to him now to right these wrongs. He can start this week by picking up points in the league but the problems that run deeper are going to take longer to address.

[ZonkoVille77]

Our problems go beyond selection, it's an inherent shithouseness when faced with physically intimidating opposition. They roughed us up and we couldn't handle it.

 

This is actually more valid than my argument about resting players.

 

We just don't have any physicality in the side and Sterling/Allen/Robinson in any side at the same time won't give that.

 

Stevie was about the only one I saw putting in a decent tackle yesterday. Sterling was late with most of his attempts. Rest seemed to be afraid of hurting their hair.

[VladimirIlyich]

Manager has to take some of the blame and especially his handling of Coates,who i didnt think was our worst player yesterday.

I just feel that hes over complicating things with the shape and i wouldnt be too disappointed to see us play 442 and its derivatives and start from there.

The players we have arent equipped to make his fantasy formations work.

[Whelan]

Yes, I dont think English is your first language, that's why you missed the 'I find it hard to believe we didnt scout oldham.'

 

The bit in bold is your clue.

 

No my English is fine - just trying to keep up with your constant stream of made up 'facts' and contradictory arguments dressed up as 'fact' that I am finding difficult.

 

That, alongside the condescending and aggressive tone of your posts is quite difficult to follow!

[Code]

Nail on the head.

 

Not really, what does it matter if we get 5th-8th in the league?

 

Take one game at the time, play your best team, especially in the competitons where your earlier fuck ups have not taking away all hope for anything remotely close to success.

[The Acolyte]

Jesus Christ!

 

Have you actually typed this?

 

Is it worth talking about Rodgers with you, if this is THIS is what you think?

 

Realised it was a bit of a nothing statement as soon as I sent it!

Of course he does rotate but the quality of his squad is good enough to see off lower league teams. What winds me up is when other managers try pulling the same trick when any fan could tell them they're pissing in the wind

[Code]

Oh and to those saying team selection was not a problem yesterday, we opted the use the worst keeper in any PL squad as our keeper, in front of him we picked four defenders I guess have never played together before and two of them had started 12 games between them this season.

 

Infront of them we lined up with a midfield consisting of two players to protect them and thats it, then we had 4 attackers on the pitch, where one played his 4th game for the club and two never actually scores.

 

A recipy for major success obviously.

[thompsonsnose]

Some good points made on this page re Rodgers.

He needs to:

Realise he hasn't got the staff to indulge 433

Or purchase the right players to make that work.

If funds are a problem then adapt his playing style accordingly.

We're getting repeatedly bummed in MF and he does nothing about it.

 

 

And generally shut his trap and sport his shit out.

He is in part responsible for chucking a bunch of strangers (not kids) in to the back 4 yesterday.

As has been discussed, if Oldham had been scouted, how did he reach the conclusion that Carragher should be on the bench?

 

He made bad decisions/selections against UTD, and he did it again yesterday.

[Guest San Don]

Yesterday had made a massive week for us even harder.

 

I can see both arguments in this. BR clearly played what fans would consider a weakened team, although one that contained 9 full internationals. As much as I believe the team that started should have won the match, if he does rest certain key players and we lose he leaves himself open for criticism. Personally, I've been an advocate of giving Stevie some bench time to ensure he is fit and sharp, so against lower league opposition with Arsenal and City ahead this week I think it makes total sense to use this match as an opportunity to rest him.

 

In BR's defence, FSG have shown that the domestic cup competitions carry little weight with their sacking of Kenny. If he has been told to give the cups bottom billing then he's not going to send out all of the big guns against Oldham. But lets not forget this was hardly a youth side we fielded, there was a £50m strikeforce on the field, £30m worth of midfielders and players who've played in World Cups. A much weaker team went to WBA and won in the league cup.

 

Our problems go beyond selection, it's an inherent shithouseness when faced with physically intimidating opposition. They roughed us up and we couldn't handle it. It's all very well playing your nice passing game against a side like Norwich who'll give you the space to play your game, but you've got to be able to mix it when teams go toe to toe with you. By and large we can't. If I was any manager managing a side facing us the team talk and tactics would be simple. Go long, go direct, get in our faces and rough us up. Too many shithouses in the squad who are happy to put a shift in when we're 3-0 up at Anfield but go missing when we're in a dogfight against a Stoke, a Mansfield, an Oldham, even a Man Utd as the first hour showed us the other week. Unless we add steel to the squad we risk being an Arsenal MK II, looking like Barcelona at home against the dross, but a soft touch when it really matters.

 

I don't think Brendan is stupid, but it's down to him now to right these wrongs. He can start this week by picking up points in the league but the problems that run deeper are going to take longer to address.

 

Well I personally wouldnt go along with calling the players shithouses but each to their own.

 

The two things you fail to mention though are team tactic and team motivation.

[Guest San Don]

No my English is fine - just trying to keep up with your constant stream of made up 'facts' and contradictory arguments dressed up as 'fact' that I am finding difficult.

 

That, alongside the condescending and aggressive tone of your posts is quite difficult to follow!

 

There's no contradictions in my posts. You're just being obtuse and trying to make some contradiction where there's none.

 

Yesterday, you said barnsley was a full strength side despite gerrard, mascherano and reina not playing. You then said you never said it was a weakened side. Yet you say Im being contradictory.

 

Yeah, ok :whistle:

 

Facts are facts. You may not like that but thems the facts.

 

As for condescending and aggressive tone, well just fuck off then :P

[Whelan]

Then it was a bad decision!! Carra and Coates together may have worked, with Carra's organising.. Skrtel has none.. and Coates is too raw... the fact Robinson would go foward with no cover etc is all part of problem we have had all season and that all stems from the management/coaching.. tika taka is all great but if you can't get the basics right in he 1st place what's the point..

 

It wasn't a bad decision - it was an understandable decision - Carragher has a lot of strengths but he isn't strong in the air, and against a team that are going to be utilising their strength with high balls - you would use the 6.3 and 6.6 defenders.

 

Carragher played against Mansfield and lets be frank, he struggled against them as well, same type of football. Just when does Coates progress from raw to at least solid? Going on 18 months now.

 

They scored after 2 minutes, and then through a fucking ridiculous error, and then 2 minutes after the restart - that doesn't suggest it was a tactical error, that suggests a lack of character. And whilst I don't think Coates is progressing quickly enough, I would look more closley at the 'senior' defender yesterday - who since signing his contract has gone worse.

[Randy Marsh]

Well I personally wouldnt go along with calling the players shithouses but each to their own.

 

The two things you fail to mention though are team tactic and team motivation.

 

Each to their own as you say. I just see players who are quite happy to show for the ball and take some responsibility when they're a couple of goals up at home, but time and time again go AWOL when men are needed.

 

You mention tactics and motivation. Tactically I wasn't happy with how we set up the midfield, I felt it looked too light from the off. To me, motivation shouldn't be an issue. There are players out there who have bee waiting for an opportunity like yesterday. The manager has shown he'll select players on merit so yesterday was a chance for someone to stake a claim for a start against Arsenal or City. They shouldnt need motivating, they're representing Liverpool Football Club for Christ sake.

 

I'm not a blind faith Rodgers supporter. I'm not absolving him of responsibility yesterday, but for me the bottom line is he picked 9 international players against League 1 dross who haven't won a match in a couple of months. Blaming tactics, motivation, whatever, for me gives the players a free pass for what was ultimately a gutless, spineless, abject display. The team we had out should have wiped the floor with Oldham Athletic, at the very least forced a replay.

[Guest San Don]

Each to their own as you say. I just see players who are quite happy to show for the ball and take some responsibility when they're a couple of goals up at home, but time and time again go AWOL when men are needed.

 

You mention tactics and motivation. Tactically I wasn't happy with how we set up the midfield, I felt it looked too light from the off. To me, motivation shouldn't be an issue. There are players out there who have bee waiting for an opportunity like yesterday. The manager has shown he'll select players on merit so yesterday was a chance for someone to stake a claim for a start against Arsenal or City. They shouldnt need motivating, they're representing Liverpool Football Club for Christ sake.

 

I'm not a blind faith Rodgers supporter. I'm not absolving him of responsibility yesterday, but for me the bottom line is he picked 9 international players against League 1 dross who haven't won a match in a couple of months. Blaming tactics, motivation, whatever, for me gives the players a free pass for what was ultimately a gutless, spineless, abject display. The team we had out should have wiped the floor with Oldham Athletic, at the very least forced a replay.

 

Motivation shouldnt be an issue? Seriously?

 

Make you wonder why men like Shankly, Paisley, Busby, clough (yes, I know) etc, etc spend time and effort motivating players rather than just telling them 'you're playing for the shirt / club / fans' etc.

 

Sorry, but that's a bit naive in the extreme.

[Whelan]

Motivations change though San Don!

 

There is no such thing as a good motivator - what will motivate individual players differs from one to the other. By all accounts the players are quite receptive to Rodgers, they seem to appreciate how he treats them. Being motivated wasn't the problem yesterday, it was lack of character - I don't doubt Henderson's desire for one moment, but I do doubt his character (I used him as a general example).

[Major Tom]

You see, I have problems with this 'team should be enough to beat' stuff. Since day one of football, that rule has been broken. Its 11 v 11 once the game starts. It also shows a lack of respect to the oppos, whoever they are, as well.

 

We should have been good enough to beat villa yet they whopped us on home ground ffs then proceeded to conceed something like 14 goals in their next 3 games.

 

I find it hard to believe we didnt scout oldham and would have been aware of their physical presence or style. Yet we started a game with sterling and allen who are both pretty lightweight in terms of possession.

 

If the league games are more important, why was Suarez on from the start? Why were Gerrard, Carragher and downing even on the bench for that matter?

 

Cup shocks happen and yet again, we were on the wrong end of one. It doesnt make it any more palitable though.

 

TBH, Im more fucking annoyed with the manager once again shooting from the lip and publically lambasting his 'young players.' Sort that shit out in private will you rodgers.

 

Im sorry but Im rapidly losing my patience with this manager.

 

He was right, though. The young players let us down and showed no mettle at all.

 

But, then, if Rodgers came out saying everything smelled of roses, you'd criticise him for burying his head.

 

Haters gotta - and gonna - hate.

[Randy Marsh]

Motivation shouldnt be an issue? Seriously?

 

Make you wonder why men like Shankly, Paisley, Busby, clough (yes, I know) etc, etc spend time and effort motivating players rather than just telling them 'you're playing for the shirt / club / fans' etc.

 

Sorry, but that's a bit naive in the extreme.

 

I gave you reasons to justify why they should be motivated. Jones, Robinson, Wisdom, Coates, Allen, Henderson, Sterling, Borini, all players who haven't nailed down a guaranteed place in the side. Yesterday was a chance to further stake their claim for that. None of those mentioned are seasoned internationals who would have any kind of right to feel that Oldham in the cup is below them. I personally do feel that you shouldn't need motivating to play for this club. But if you feel that naive, then like I said there was plenty of incentive and motivation for the players mentioned to put a shift in yesterday.

[Code]

The only one to blame for the defeat yesterday is Rodgers and the shocking team he picked.

 

Keeper:

First of all Jones who is a terrible keeper in every aspect of the game, if he was carrying a slight injury as well its truly madness to pick him.

 

Defense:

Without checking my guess is that defense have never played together before and it included Coates and Robinson who had 12 starts between them in 6 months this season.

 

Robinson has only started one game since October against Mansfield and Coates has started two since October, Mansfield and Anzhi in early November.

 

With Coates starting we have only won 3 games, Mansfield, West Brom in the League Cup and Young Boys away, in other words two games in September and against conference minnows Mansfield.

 

Midfield:

Basically we sent out a midfield of two players to protect our shambles of a defense and our piss poor keeper who on top was injured.

 

Allen and Henderson have their strenghts and weaknesses, playing just the two of them against a lower league team who obviously would be fired up like never before is quastionable at best and fuckin stupid at worst.

 

Their jobs were made no easier by the four attacking players infront of them were Borini, Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez.

 

Attack:

We started with four attacking players and I'm not really sure who were supposed to supply them before the match started and I'm just as wise afterwards as they did not really get any supply either.

 

Sterling was never a good choice this game, he can be a valuable player if he is given space and time and if someone can play him in behind defense.

 

He was never going to get time this game and no space either, he has scored twice this season, both times when he had 40 yards of open space to run into, a really bad call from Rodgers no matter who else he started, Sterling should never been on the pitch.

 

Borini, just back from injury, made sense to start him, but not without a midfield supporting him as Borini is not someone to create anything himself and with 4 attacking players there would be less positions availible to take up and his finishing has so far been erratic at best.

 

Sturridge played his 4th game for the club and he is not really a creator either and is at his best when there is room in behind defense to run into.

 

Suarez can do everything no matter who he play with so I will not go into detail here.

 

Basically we had a defense who never had played together before, where two players have hardly started a game since October, infront of them we had a midfield two and up front an attacking four where only one is a creator and three need space to run into to be of much use.

 

How could this go wrong?

 

The manager picks the team, what made him think this team would ever be a good idea I'll never know because it was obvious we would struggle, we had no balance, no compatible abilities and the environment did not really fit the tools we had brought either.

 

It was a shambles and the only one to blame is the manager.

 

Him trying to deflect responsibility does not really do him any good.

[Whelan]

I gave you reasons to justify why they should be motivated. Jones, Robinson, Wisdom, Coates, Allen, Henderson, Sterling, Borini, all players who haven't nailed down a guaranteed place in the side. Yesterday was a chance to further stake their claim for that. None of those mentioned are seasoned internationals who would have any kind of right to feel that Oldham in the cup is below them. I personally do feel that you shouldn't need motivating to play for this club. But if you feel that naive, then like I said there was plenty of incentive and motivation for the players mentioned to put a shift in yesterday.

 

It might not have been a lack of application though. It could quite easily have been a lack of understanding about what is needed in these type of matches. I think the match slipped away from us - but I got the impression that we felt we would simply score eventually as the first half progressed - and couldn't figure out a way back into the match as they scored twice within 3 minutes.

[old skool tom]

coates and robo sadly arent even premier league players and joe allen just cant handle it when hes put under pressure with ball at his feet.

 

also think luis should stop bollocking the young players every time they fuck up (ie-dont pass to him) even though he is right! haha he doesnt scream at the older players,seems a bit of a bully to the younger lads.

 

dissapointing result but its just part of the teething problems in the first season of BR'S long term master plan