Torres

[stringvest]

Discussing his form is one thing, his body language is entirely different though.

 

The problem is for top quality forwards, and it was the same for loads of them as I remember, from Toshack and Dalglish to Owen and Torres, that when they're playing poorly, they do tend to look less interested and allow their frustrations to overtake them. The only real exceptions I can think of to this are Rush and (to an extent Beardsley and Aldridge)

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Fuck me. Is it lay into Torres time again?

[Il Fenomeno]

Calm down dear. We all love Fernando. If you're saying we can't have a moan when he wastes a few nailed on chances, and had a poor game overall, then, erm, no.

 

This isn't anything to do with his performance.

 

I don't see you questioning Maxi's commitment to the club because he missed a nailed on chance, I don't see you questioning Carra's commiment because he let Modric in for the first goal.

 

You're trying to find scapegoats for Hodgson's failures, it's usually Lucas or Johnson, but they had good games today, and you don't want to blame Konchesky, because that would mean the loss was Royston's fault, so you're going to pick on some pointless penalty ritual Torres' does. Keep sweeping Hodgson's failures under the carpet.

[stringvest]

You're an absolute whopper.

 

and you, my lad, should be in bed.

[Iantn]

The problem is for top quality forwards, and it was the same for loads of them as I remember, from Toshack and Dalglish to Owen and Torres, that when they're playing poorly, they do tend to look less interested and allow their frustrations to overtake them. The only real exceptions I can think of to this are Rush and (to an extent Beardsley and Aldridge)

 

I don't disagree mate but it seems a need to say his arsedness is effecting his form when I just think it's purely his form that is resulting in him being so low on confidence.

 

I remember a similar discussion happened when he didn't celebrate our second against Sunderland and instead just got the ball and went back to the centre circle.

 

We over-evaluate far too fuckin' much these days rather than just getting behind the lads. Am not saying people aren't doing that but we seem intent on finding fault on everyone and then concentrating on that weakness and highlighting it.

[Guest ShoePiss]

This isn't anything to do with his performance.

 

I don't see you questioning Maxi's commitment to the club because he missed a nailed on chance, I don't see you questioning Carra's commiment because he let Modric in for the first goal.

 

You're trying to find scapegoats for Hodgson's failures, it's usually Lucas or Johnson, but they had good games today, and you don't want to blame Konchesky, because that would mean the loss was Royston's fault, so you're going to pick on some pointless penalty ritual Torres' does. Keep sweeping Hodgson's failures under the carpet.

 

There are a number of people that use the exact same tactic. I find it hilarious.

[stringvest]

This isn't anything to do with his performance.

 

I don't see you questioning Maxi's commitment to the club because he missed a nailed on chance, I don't see you questioning Carra's commiment because he let Modric in for the first goal.

 

You're trying to find scapegoats for Hodgson's failures, it's usually Lucas or Johnson, but they had good games today, and you don't want to blame Konchesky, because that would mean the loss was Royston's fault, so you're going to pick on some pointless penalty ritual Torres' does. Keep sweeping Hodgson's failures under the carpet.

 

what? I haven't mentioned Torres' penalty ritual at all, but don't let that stop you moaning. Konchesky was without doubt a major reason we got nothing out t of the game today, what with his major fuck-up at the end. If you had read any of my posts you'd know that I've already said that, but you are moaning about me looking for scapegoats. Silly.

 

I don't look to defend Hodgson, as I think he's done a very poor job overall so far (how could anyone not?) but I will defend him against your assertion that the loss was his fault. The loss was as a result of our best forward and Maxi making an absolute bollocks of gilt edged chances, and Konchesky fucking up very badly at the end of the game. Carragher (or anyone else) was not going to be able to move from a standing start to win the ball from an in-flight Modric without bringing him down. That's how I saw the game. You see it as Hodgson's fault, and that I'm sweeping what you believe as Hodgson's failure under the carpet. Given my criticism of Hodgson over the last weeks I hope you don't mind if I ask you to fuck off and stop misrepresenting what I say. Otherwise I might start putting it about that I saw you and Lucas sitting in a tree. K-i-s-s-i-n-g.

[stringvest]

I don't disagree mate but it seems a need to say his arsedness is effecting his form when I just think it's purely his form that is resulting in him being so low on confidence.

 

I remember a similar discussion happened when he didn't celebrate our second against Sunderland and instead just got the ball and went back to the centre circle.

 

We over-evaluate far too fuckin' much these days rather than just getting behind the lads. Am not saying people aren't doing that but we seem intent on finding fault on everyone and then concentrating on that weakness and highlighting it.

 

I don't know about that other discussion, but I'm not going to fall out with anyone over Torres because I think he is a fantastic player and an asset to the club. There is some hypersensitivity out there.

[23_Carra_Gold]

I reckon he's just in foul humour because of the shite going on around the club. Who's to say we'd be any different?

 

He definitely cares, he definitely wants us to do well and he definitely gives 100% every week. We're in a rut, it'd be hard for him to go out and be the 07/08 Torres when we're getting shite results.

[Iantn]

There is some hypersensitivity out there.

 

It's mad ain't it. People jump at random shite for nothing. I could name a few posters on here who am not sure I've ever agreed with but we've debated stuff and moved on. I don't automatically see their posts and wanna argue it but it seems too many actually do.

[TheResonator]

Let's pretend we're Torres for a minute.

 

You finish 2008-2009 and expect to go into the next season challenging for the title. Your team loses a couple of important players during the transfer window, but you expect the replacements to cut the mustard and you're optimistic - after finishing 2nd - of winning your first domestic league the following season.

 

Things don't work out. You're riddled with injuries from getting kicked up and down the park by oafish, no-mark defenders week-in week-out, your team falls (quite spectacularly) from grace, you no longer have Champions League football to look forward to and, to top it all off, the manager who brought you to the club; who gave you the best goal-scoring statistics of your career, gets replaced by an Englishman with an underwhelming C.V.

 

You go to the World Cup to represent your country and, in spite of your country taking home the prize, you come in for a lot of criticism in the press for your lacklustre performances; endure a huge amount of speculation about your future; and gradually start to make your way back to fitness with the odd first team appearance. The team you agreed to stay with - the team that's now out of the Champions League, with a manager who has had a totally undistinguished career - is doing poorly, and instead of looking at the root causes, people pick on you, one of the best players, for looking disinterested.

 

Torres may love Liverpool, but he isn't you or me thinking: 'I'd give my right bollock to be that good'. He's a pro and he can play where he wants. Nobody has been good for us this season and he doesn't deserve to be singled out. He may have the weight of Liverpool supporters' world on his shoulders, but if that burning world starts to singe his neck it's not just his fault for dropping it.

 

We're heading down the shitter if we don't sort things out soon and Torres playing with a smile on his face and a pocket full of dreams isn't going to change that.

[Iantn]

Let's pretend we're Torres for a minute.

 

I doubt many of us would need much longer with that thought!

[stringvest]

We all agree that Roy's doing poorly. We all want the team to do well.

 

That's probably as far as we can go with this agreeing lark.

[TheHowieLama]

he had a nice little touch there for maxi

[Il Fenomeno]

what? I haven't mentioned Torres' penalty ritual at all, but don't let that stop you moaning. Konchesky was without doubt a major reason we got nothing out t of the game today, what with his major fuck-up at the end. If you had read any of my posts you'd know that I've already said that, but you are moaning about me looking for scapegoats. Silly.

 

I don't look to defend Hodgson, as I think he's done a very poor job overall so far (how could anyone not?) but I will defend him against your assertion that the loss was his fault. The loss was as a result of our best forward and Maxi making an absolute bollocks of gilt edged chances, and Konchesky fucking up very badly at the end of the game. Carragher (or anyone else) was not going to be able to move from a standing start to win the ball from an in-flight Modric without bringing him down. That's how I saw the game. You see it as Hodgson's fault, and that I'm sweeping what you believe as Hodgson's failure under the carpet. Given my criticism of Hodgson over the last weeks I hope you don't mind if I ask you to fuck off and stop misrepresenting what I say. Otherwise I might start putting it about that I saw you and Lucas sitting in a tree. K-i-s-s-i-n-g.

 

I have to say he had an air of 'don't really give a fuck' all day, then did a little bit of huffing and puffing when he imagined the cameras might be upon him.

 

This is what you said about Torres, I assumed you would've been using that footage of him walking away as proof that his attitude was off, if not. I sincerely apologise for misrepresenting what you were saying :)

 

I don't think the result was all Hodgson's fault, he certainly played a part in it though. I just don't understand why certain 'supporters', almost seem to relish sticking the boot in when certain players under perform, especially ones like Torres. I don't know why it is, but the analysing of his every move is irritating. He's had the media on his back since the world cup, he's been carrying an injury and had constant speculation about the club and his future, is it any wonder he's a bit pissed off and not firing on all cylinders?

 

It's fair to criticise his performance, not his commitment though.

[Guest PurpleNose]

I wouldn't blame him for wondering what the fuck he's doing here.

 

We're 10th. Roy Hodgson is our manager. We're 10th because Roy Hodgson is our manager.

 

We really need to act soon in getting rid of him (Hodgson, not Torres). The fall out from next summer could put us back another couple of years if we don't make the change soon.

[s(k)aturation]

 

It's fair to criticise his performance, not his commitment though.

 

 

So if he dashes around panting like an excitable puppy for the rest of the season, watches opposition penalty kicks with an anguished/concerned look on his face and doesn't score much... we'll all be happier then.

[TheHowieLama]

So if he dashes around panting like an excitable puppy for the rest of the season, watches opposition penalty kicks with an anguished/concerned look on his face and doesn't score much... we'll all be happier then.

 

when he starts answering to dirky - I'll be fine

[The Special One]

I just had a poo. It smelled better than this thread.

[ngogswilly]

Well we may aswell start getting used to the fact that hes going because we will never make 4th this year.

 

Fucking disgrace this season is turning out to be. We could be right up there but instead we're set for a good old mid table finish. Roys speciality. And we'll lose a fantastic world class player because of that.

[18-5]

Away from home he barely gets any chances tbf.

 

We just don't have the energy playing away (except possible yesterday). Most of the team looks disinterested and just go through the motions at times.

 

We need to find a suitable partner for Torres and a good winger soon.

[Joso]

Away from home he barely gets any chances tbf.

 

We just don't have the energy playing away (except possible yesterday). Most of the team looks disinterested and just go through the motions at times.

 

We need to find a suitable partner for Torres and a good winger soon.

 

And a good left back, and a strong center back, and an Alonso replacement..... sad times really

[Alan Sex]

And a good left back, and a strong center back, and an Alonso replacement..... sad times really

 

[18-5]

And a good left back, and a strong center back, and an Alonso replacement..... sad times really

 

The media unfairly criticises Torres for not putting in the effort but most of the time the whole team puts in a lack lustre performance.

 

We have one of the bet centre forwards in the world and he needs service. With out proper service he cannot score. It is just not about giving him the ball and let him do his thing is it? The whole team should work toward creating chances and goals, taking away opposition defenders and making runs and passes that will make it easier for him.

 

There is no point in having a go at him when we barely provide anything for him to work with.

 

Coming to the replacements, I don't think we should necessarily find an Alonso replacement(Can we even find one?). Teams above us do not have Alonso, they have different players and different systems. I think it is time we looked at players and systems that can make us successful with out the need to play a 4-5-1 all the time.

[stringvest]

This is what you said about Torres, I assumed you would've been using that footage of him walking away as proof that his attitude was off, if not. I sincerely apologise for misrepresenting what you were saying :)

 

I don't think the result was all Hodgson's fault, he certainly played a part in it though. I just don't understand why certain 'supporters', almost seem to relish sticking the boot in when certain players under perform, especially ones like Torres. I don't know why it is, but the analysing of his every move is irritating. He's had the media on his back since the world cup, he's been carrying an injury and had constant speculation about the club and his future, is it any wonder he's a bit pissed off and not firing on all cylinders?

 

It's fair to criticise his performance, not his commitment though.

 

It wasn't your pop over what I'd said about Torres that I had issue with really, it was the remark that I was having a go at selected players to defend Roy. If Carragher has a mare, I'll moan about him as well. I'm not defending Hodgson, maybe it's the fact that I don't think yesterday's result was down to him in particular and I don't resort to personal abuse with him all the time. If we'd have played like that and lost under Rafa I certainly wouldn't have blamed him either.