Israel president Shimon Peres accuses Britain of pro-Arab bias

[ZonkoVille77]

What sort of curry?

Lamb dhanshak if you must know

[KopOut]

 

 

So are we evil in this country, for killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians?

Ofc we are. We deliberately targeted dense civilian pops - Hamburg, Dresden etc.

 

Selective Murder is essentially legalised with a declaration of War.

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

Selective Murder is essentially legalised with a declaration of War.

 

Agreed, and that's probably why we should focus on the corporations that profit from it.

[KopOut]

Agreed, and that's probably why we should focus on the corporations that profit from it.

Which brings us back to political solutions.

[Anubis]

Anybody here support the slow and systematic eradication of Germany and it's people? Anyone here hate the Germans?

Anyone here taught to hate the Germans by their parents or grandparents? 

 

No? I didn't think so.

 

 

Now then, anyone else think we should deal with the IRA by firing missiles indiscriminately into Belfast?

Anyone think we should wall catholic parts of Northern Ireland in and starve them and blockade aid?

Anyone think we should indiscriminately bulldoze their houses while people are inside, blatantly murder international observers, or turn off their water supply and power whenever we felt like it?

 

No? I didn't think so.

 

 

Nice attempt to derail the thread, SD. This thread has taught me to look at you in a different light though. I'm having a hard time deciding if you're trolling, or if there really is a part of you that is as vicious and evil as the Israeli regime you purport to support.

[torahboy]

Anybody here support the slow and systematic eradication of Germany and it's people? Anyone here hate the Germans?

Anyone here taught to hate the Germans by their parents or grandparents? 

 

No? I didn't think so.

 

 

Now then, anyone else think we should deal with the IRA by firing missiles indiscriminately into Belfast?

Anyone think we should wall catholic parts of Northern Ireland in and starve them and blockade aid?

Anyone think we should indiscriminately bulldoze their houses while people are inside, blatantly murder international observers, or turn off their water supply and power whenever we felt like it?

 

No? I didn't think so.

 

 

Nice attempt to derail the thread, SD. This thread has taught me to look at you in a different light though. I'm having a hard time deciding if you're trolling, or if there really is a part of you that is as vicious and evil as the Israeli regime you purport to support.

 

 

Mmm. Quite the conundrum. But I'm favouring the latter.

[ZonkoVille77]

ZonkoVille77, on 12 Aug 2014 - 9:04 PM, said:

 

.

http://henrymakow.com/zionists_create_anti-semitism.html

 

watch that documentary if you get a chance.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/11/anti-jewish-hatred-rising-antisemitism-meaning

 

 

good article by Owen Jones. On my phone so can someone do the honours please.

[Jairzinho]

Anti-Jewish hatred is rising – we must see it for what it is

Confronting and defeating all forms of antisemitism involves being able to defend its meaning from abuse

 

Antisemitism is a menace. Hatred of the Jewish people has persisted in European societies for two millennia, manifesting itself in blood libel, persecution, expulsions, pogroms and massacres. At various points in history it has been vigorously promoted by elites and absorbed by large swaths of the population. Living among us today remain survivors of the Holocaust, the only attempt to exterminate an entire people by industrialised, systematic means. This unparalleled atrocity certainly mobilised opinion against antisemitism, stripping it of the respectable status it had long enjoyed in many European countries, but that does not mean it vanished. Because it was allowed to course through the veins of European society for so long, even the utter horror of the Shoah was never going to fully expunge it. Far from being in retreat, the evidence suggests that anti-Jewish hatred is actually increasing again.

 

I write this because antisemitism needs to be treated very seriously indeed. Attempts to belittle it are dangerous, allowing the tumour to spread unchecked. But Israel’s assault on Gaza has highlighted another danger too. It has often been debated whether the charge of antisemitism is concocted against anyone who supports Palestinian justice or criticises the actions of the Israeli state. The principal objection is that such a tactic represents an attempt to silence critics of Israel’s occupation. Yet there are rather more dangerous potential consequences: not least that the meaning of antisemitism is lost, making it all the more difficult to identify and eliminate hatred against Jewish people at a time when it is rising.

 

The vast majority of pro-Palestinian sentiment is driven by a sense of solidarity with an oppressed people subjected to occupation, siege and a brutal military onslaught. The response of many supporters of Israel’s attack has been instructive. In a world where there is so much injustice and bloodshed, they say, why not march against the sectarian murderers of Islamic State (Isis) or Boko Haram? This is known as “whataboutery”: an attempt to deflect from one injustice by referring to the suffering of others. Some defenders of Israel’s governments believe the supposed special attention received by the conflict is itself evidence of antisemitism. But Israel’s atrocities attract this attention because the state is armed to the teeth and backed by western governments, rendering them directly complicit; IS and Boko Haram, on the other hand, are (quite rightly) opposed by our rulers. Demonstrations and protests are generally a means of exercising influence over supposedly democratically accountable governments.

 

That does not mean that the monstrosity of antisemitism has been absent in the backlash against Israel’s actions. Last month a synagogue and Jewish-owned businesses were attacked in the Parisian suburb of Sarcelles. I have encountered sentiments that conflate the Jewish people and the Israeli government – though this is echoed by some staunch Zionists, and is no less antisemitic in implication. Threats and assaults have been directed at Jewish people in several European countries.

 

One sinister piece of pedantry that keeps cropping up is the claim that the term “antisemitism” is itself false, because Arabs are Semites too. Never mind that the term antisemitism has been popularly understood to mean hatred against Jews since the late 19th century – here is an attempt to make it impossible to identify this hatred by engaging in disingenuous wordplay.

 

One retort repeatedly offered is that Israel is itself the source of antisemitism; that its brutality towards the Palestinian people encourages hatred against the Jewish people. This is a nonsense, like rationalising anti-Muslim prejudice as the inevitable consequence of Islamist fundamentalist terror; responsibility for prejudice lies with the prejudiced. Most of us are quite capable of opposing brutality without turning into bigots. Racism needs to be eliminated, not excused.

 

To defeat all forms of antisemitism – including those that masquerade as solidarity with oppressed Palestinians – we need to be able to identify them. That becomes impossible when the very meaning of the word is abused and lost. Take Douglas Murray, a writer with a particular obsession with Islam. “Thousands of anti-Semites have today succeeded in bringing central London to an almost total standstill” was his reprehensible description of a Palestine solidarity demonstration last month. This is not simply an unforgivable libel against peace protestors – Jews among them – who simply object to their government’s complicity in the massacre of children. It makes it much harder to identify genuine antisemitism. The same goes for the Daily Telegraph’s Brendan O’Neill, who recently suggested the left was becoming antisemitic. Bizarrely, his evidence included the left’s stance against the disproportionate influence of the Murdoch empire: ironic, given that the non-Jewish Rupert Murdoch once drew on a classic antisemitic trope when he tweeted: “Why is Jewish owned press so consistently anti-Israel in every crisis?”

 

Yet there really is plenty of antisemitism that must be confronted. Take Greece, where the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn has thrived amid economic trauma. Back in May, 16% of Athenian voters opted for the Golden Dawn candidate for the city’s mayor.According to a recent study, 69% of Greeks had antisemitic views; in Poland – despite suffering some of the Nazis’ worst horrors – it was 48%, Spain 53%. In Hungary the antisemitic party Jobbik won a fifth of the vote in April’s parliamentary elections. Like most of Europe’s far right, France’s Front National focuses its bile against Muslims, but the party’s roots are deep in antisemitism; and a few months ago it topped the country’s European parliamentary elections. Hatred against Jews is a clear and present danger.

 

Antisemitic themes are depressingly constant: of Jews being aliens, lacking loyalty to their countries, acting as parasites, wielding disproportionate influence. Sometimes this hatred is overt, other times more subtle and pernicious. It needs the broadest possible coalition to defeat. Because it is so embedded– dating back as it does to Roman times – it requires special determination to challenge. That does not mean antisemitism is somehow biologically hardwired into the European mindset: it can and will be eliminated. But that means defending its meaning from abuse. It is not simply about defending supporters of the Palestinian cause from smear and slander, but preventing the seriousness of antisemitism being devalued, making it harder to confront wherever it emerges. This is no small matter. The future security of Europe’s Jews depends on it. 

[Strontium]

 

Anybody here support the slow and systematic eradication of Germany and it's people? Anyone here hate the Germans?

Anyone here taught to hate the Germans by their parents or grandparents? 

 

No? I didn't think so.

 

 

Now then, anyone else think we should deal with the IRA by firing missiles indiscriminately into Belfast?

Anyone think we should wall catholic parts of Northern Ireland in and starve them and blockade aid?

Anyone think we should indiscriminately bulldoze their houses while people are inside, blatantly murder international observers, or turn off their water supply and power whenever we felt like it?

 

No? I didn't think so.

 

 

Nice attempt to derail the thread, SD. This thread has taught me to look at you in a different light though. I'm having a hard time deciding if you're trolling, or if there really is a part of you that is as vicious and evil as the Israeli regime you purport to support.

 

 

Well done, you can compare apples and oranges with the best of them.

 

And apparently I "support Israel", which I'm sure will be news to anyone with eyes in their head.

[dennis tooth]

Disagree with that article, hes typical Guardian shite, hes having his cake and eating it for a start there, hes saying anti semitism is losing all meaning but then cannot give it a logical meaning saying anti semitism is racism and then talks of Jews, which last I looked are part of a religion not a race, I could convert to Judaism, does it make me 'of middle eastern origin? No. So how is it racism. If I criticise Christianity it doesnt mean Im racist does it? Likewise if I criticise Judaism it doesnt make me automatically racist towards people of middle eastern appearance or origin.

Its total nonsense reasoning. Anti semitism is well down the list of racist suffering minorities, blacks, asians by that I mean anything from chinese to pakistan all have their own little place in our society with racists I have never ever seen someone make a remark to a Jew, they dont even get noticed, in fact if you wanted an example of assimilation you'd be harder pressed to in our society, theres more prejudice against Americans, spic, chink, paki, heard them all etc Ive never heard anyone in real life make a anti Jewish remark. Ever.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Cheers Jairz.

[Jairzinho]

No worries, mate.

 

I think I agree, in part, with Dennis. Not quite sure about that article.

 

Especially this bit -

 

One retort repeatedly offered is that Israel is itself the source of antisemitism; that its brutality towards the Palestinian people encourages hatred against the Jewish people.

 

 

It does, but it doesn't mean that people are doing this -

 

 

 

Racism needs to be eliminated, not excused

[VladimirIlyich]

 

For making a joke about suicide bombers, or for not calling every Israeli evil?

 

Neither makes sense, but I thought it best to let you explain.

No,for never missing an opportunity to mock or criticise Muslims,Palestinians and perceived opponents of Israel yet almost never critising Israel itself.

Strange that.

For the record I think a lot of Israelis are cunts as are some Palestinians too. Same goes for Muslims,Christians,Jews and Atheists.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Oh of course. Maybe the use of the word good wasn't the best choice of word.

 

What I got from it was that anti-semitism shouldn't be confused with racism.

[Jairzinho]

Oh of course. Maybe the use of the word good wasn't the best choice of word.

 

What I got from it was that anti-semitism shouldn't be confused with racism.

 

Nah, I agree in the main. Read a few articles by Jones on this conflict and it somehow feels like he isn't quite writing with the same confidence as he does other issues. For whatever reason.

[PestiRed]

Disagree with that article, hes typical Guardian shite, hes having his cake and eating it for a start there, hes saying anti semitism is losing all meaning but then cannot give it a logical meaning saying anti semitism is racism and then talks of Jews, which last I looked are part of a religion not a race, I could convert to Judaism, does it make me 'of middle eastern origin? No. So how is it racism. If I criticise Christianity it doesnt mean Im racist does it? Likewise if I criticise Judaism it doesnt make me automatically racist towards people of middle eastern appearance or origin.

Its total nonsense reasoning. Anti semitism is well down the list of racist suffering minorities, blacks, asians by that I mean anything from chinese to pakistan all have their own little place in our society with racists I have never ever seen someone make a remark to a Jew, they dont even get noticed, in fact if you wanted an example of assimilation you'd be harder pressed to in our society, theres more prejudice against Americans, spic, chink, paki, heard them all etc Ive never heard anyone in real life make a anti Jewish remark. Ever.

Depends where you're talking about and to which degree. Antisemitism is still very much alive in a blunt form in many parts of Europe. The author wasn't kidding when he said that Jobbik gained over 20% of the vote in the last general election. This is a party whose leader has denounced the French National Front as an Isreali-funded, Zionist organisation and recently asked for a register of Jews in public life to be created. Their MEPs once turned up to the European Parliament wearing the banned uniforms of the National Guard, which are clearly based on Nazi outfits. From what I understand, Golden Dawn in Greece are similar.

 

And then you have the nut job conspiracy theorists in the UK. They are not antisemitic but are very quick to tell you that the Rothschilds are Ashkenazi Jews and therefore not proper Jews and it's okay to claim that they secretly run the world and need to be stopped because it's not like when Hitler did this rumour mongering as he was talking about real Jews and not the Ashkenazi.

 

Anti semitism is, unfortunately, alive and well

[Anubis]

No,for never missing an opportunity to mock or criticise Muslims,Palestinians and perceived opponents of Israel yet almost never critising Israel itself.

 

This. I'll replace the word support with the more accurate word condone. Which, unless you're trolling, you most certainly do, despite your denials.

[dennis tooth]

Depends where you're talking about and to which degree. Antisemitism is still very much alive in a blunt form in many parts of Europe. The author wasn't kidding when he said that Jobbik gained over 20% of the vote in the last general election. This is a party whose leader has denounced the French National Front as an Isreali-funded, Zionist organisation and recently asked for a register of Jews in public life to be created. Their MEPs once turned up to the European Parliament wearing the banned uniforms of the National Guard, which are clearly based on Nazi outfits. From what I understand, Golden Dawn in Greece are similar.

 

And then you have the nut job conspiracy theorists in the UK. They are not antisemitic but are very quick to tell you that the Rothschilds are Ashkenazi Jews and therefore not proper Jews and it's okay to claim that they secretly run the world and need to be stopped because it's not like when Hitler did this rumour mongering as he was talking about real Jews and not the Ashkenazi.

 

Anti semitism is, unfortunately, alive and well

 

Exceptions to the rule though and as I said Ive never encountered it first hand. Ive encountered every other ethnic bigotry but never heard anyone say anything bad or even good they just dont come up in everyday life in all the places Ive lived but have seen all the other 'races' insulted.

Can we agree not call it racism even when it occurs its not racism, it cant be since its not a race, I can marry a black woman wont make me black and if I married a jew it would not change my race even if it meant I became Jewish, thats because its a religion, apparently it refers to people of 'middle eastern descent but I thought we were all of African descent, anyway it clearly is a religion so not racism.

[Bjornebye]

Dennis rock and rolling through this thread like a wrecking ball. 

 

[PestiRed]

I don't see it as racism as such, although the whole question of Jewish identity and what constitutes antisemitism is a complex one.

 

Personally I file it under bigotry along with racism, homophobia, sexism and all the other forms of intolerance

[dennis tooth]

I don't see it as racism as such, although the whole question of Jewish identity and what constitutes antisemitism is a complex one.

 

Personally I file it under bigotry along with racism, homophobia, sexism and all the other forms of intolerance

 

.

We all have our racist tendencies I'll hold my hand up and admit to being thoroughly anti-inuit.

[Strontium]

 

No,for never missing an opportunity to mock or criticise Muslims,Palestinians and perceived opponents of Israel yet almost never critising Israel itself.

Strange that.

For the record I think a lot of Israelis are cunts as are some Palestinians too. Same goes for Muslims,Christians,Jews and Atheists.

 

 

I could highlight half a dozen posts, of mine, criticising Israel, but what's the point? There'd be some kind of explanation for why they don't count.

 

Similarly, my "support" for Israel amounts to me supporting its right to exist and its right to defend itself against attacks, rights which I think every single country on the planet should have (and do have, by law).

 

It's increasingly obvious that what many people here want in these threads is not a discussion but an echo chamber, where anything other than outright unqualified condemnation of Israel is verboten. Have fun with that.

[Stu Monty]

 

 

 

I could highlight half a dozen posts, of mine, criticising Israel, but what's the point? There'd be some kind of explanation for why they don't count.

 

Similarly, my "support" for Israel amounts to me supporting its right to exist and its right to defend itself against attacks, rights which I think every single country on the planet should have (and do have, by law).

 

It's increasingly obvious that what many people here want in these threads is not a discussion but an echo chamber, where anything other than outright unqualified condemnation of Israel is verboten. Have fun with that.

 

No they want honest conversation. Not someone insulting their intelligence and jumping from position to position because they "couldn't be expected" to offer strong honest views due to some unspoken fear of what that might mean outside of the forum, presumably with reference to future political ambition.

 

You said you wouldn't want to judge modern atrocities by the standards in WW2 - why did you decide to use bombing the Germans if that was the case?  By whatever standards you feel you want to apply, was bombing (targeting the population - because that's what firebombing a city is) the German cities during the war was morally justified.

[Funkasy]

Honest conversation? is this anything else than a repping orgy for some friends ?