For the anti Rafa mongs....

[billybonzo]

Why Rafa could quit

 

Some Liverpool fans think Rafa Benitez's time is up at Anfield after a poor start to the season. Given the circumstances, maybe the Spaniard does too

 

 

WHETHER you love or hate Rafa Benitez, put yourself in the Spaniard’s shoes for a moment.

 

After a lifetime living and working in Spain, after guiding Valencia to the most successful period in their history with a first title in 31 years followed up by a La Liga and UEFA Cup double, you choose to leave your home country behind to come to England and manage Liverpool.

 

You make that decision despite other, more lucrative offers lying on the table back in June 2004 – from Spurs, Inter Milan and Besiktas.

 

But you plump for Liverpool, drawn by its standing and heritage, inheriting an underachieving, average squad which looked certain to lose two of its best players in Michael Owen and Steven Gerrard.

 

For five years you live and work in a foreign country, putting your heart and soul into the manager’s job at a football club where resources don’t match the expectations.

 

You master a new language, work up to 22-hour days, change players’ diets and training methods and even enjoy an infamous drink in Germany with Liverpool fans.

 

You left one job where directors refused to sign players you wanted and interfered with transfer dealings (sparking your infamous “I asked the club for a sofa and they bought me a lampshade” quote) and walked into another one with similar problems.

 

You were told by co-owner George Gillett you could sign “Snoogy Doogy” if that’s who you wanted – but then you were told you couldn’t sign Simao, Gareth Barry, Michael Dawson, David Villa, David Silva, Kenwyne Jones, Ryan Shawcross and countless others.

 

You had a club co-owner open talks with Jurgen Klinsmann about succeeding you as manager – and found out about it through the newspapers.

 

You signed Xabi Alonso, Fernando Torres, Pepe Reina, Javier Mascherano, Luis Garcia, Yossi Benayoun, Dirk Kuyt, Glen Johnson, Emiliano Inusa, Momo Sissoko, Alvaro Arbeloa, Daniel Agger and Peter Crouch – then people kept saying you have a terrible record in the transfer market.

 

In your first season, despite a poor squad, you won the Champions League in one of the most thrilling matches in football history. Key to the run to the final was your ability to squeeze out quality performances from limited players, most notably Igor Biscan.

 

You also reached the League Cup final in that first season, losing to Chelsea 3-2 after extra time, and finished fifth in the league.

 

The following season you won the FA Cup, beating Manchester United and Chelsea on the way to the final, when West Ham were edged out on penalties. In the league you guided Liverpool to third, missing out on the runners-up spot by just one point.

 

That FA Cup success in Cardiff made you the only manager in the history of Liverpool Football Club to win major trophies in both of the first two seasons at the club.

 

A year later you guided Liverpool to another Champions League final, again knocking out Chelsea on the way. This time it wasn’t to be, but you could be forgiven for thinking people may recognise that it is no mean feat to get that far – and no disgrace to lose to AC Milan.

 

In the league, you took us to third place again.

 

But 2007-8 was a poor year for you. You only reached the semi-finals of the Champions League and finished fourth in the league. Your job was offered to Klinsmann though, so maybe you could be forgiven for taking your eye off the ball.

 

And so to last season. Quarter-finals of the Champions League, runners-up in the league with 86 points. The only team in English top-flight history to lose so few games and not be crowned champions.

 

The best points total since 1988, but also the highest of any side in a 20-team league not to win the championship.

 

Fair to say, you were unlucky. You took us so close to the much-coveted number 19.

 

And let’s not forget, you’ve won 57 per cent of your games in charge of Liverpool, the same as Bob Paisley.

 

So with all that in mind, you deserve some respect, right? You’ve done a great job in trying circumstances. You’ve proved you are what they said you were when you arrived from Valencia – a world-class manager.

 

But it’s not enough. You’ve lost four games out of nine this season. You’ve sold a player, Xabi Alonso, who wanted to leave the club, for a huge profit to the biggest club in his home country.

 

You might think your excellent record buys you some time in the job at Anfield and some patience from the fans, just like it does for Arsene Wenger, trophyless with Arsenal since 2005.

 

Well not for some people. They’ve had enough. They want Jose Mourinho. A man in a job at Inter Milan, with a huge salary. A man who would cost a lot of money in compensation and in wages. Oh and we’d have to pay you off too, Rafa. But hang on, there’s no money…

 

What’s that Rafa? You’re resigning? You don’t feel appreciated? You’ve had enough of fickle fans on phone-ins and internet forums sniping and moaning? Had enough of media men calling you “cold”, slagging off your tactics, harping on about zonal marking and questioning the timing of your substitutions?

 

Hypothetical, of course. But it could happen. And it would be a huge problem for Liverpool if it did.

 

Mourinho, Guus Hiddink, Fabio Capello…all top managers that trigger-happy fans have been mentioning as they debate Rafa’s replacement.

 

But why would any of them come to Anfield? No money to spend, owners that hate each other, sky-high expectations and a demand for immediate results…

 

Hardly the dream job is it?

 

When Benitez was trying to renegotiate his contract at Valencia in 2004 he said: “My ideal scenario was continue the work I had started at Valencia.

 

“But the managing director said to me, ‘If I give you two more years on your contract and then you lose three matches it is going to be my problem!” If that was how much respect my three years of work had earned, then it seemed obvious to me that they had little interest in me staying.”

 

He later said: “It appears that I’m valued more outside the club than I am at Valencia itself.”

 

Deja vu?

 

It’s clear he likes to be loved. And for his record at Liverpool, he deserves to be. But if people turn against him so quickly, whose to say he won’t pack it in? It’s not like he would struggle to get another job.

 

In the first post-Benitez year at Valencia, the club finished seventh, 26 points behind La Liga champions Barcelona.

 

If Benitez resigns, or, as unlikely as it is given the financial situation, is sacked, Liverpool could go backwards too.

 

I wonder what Alan Curbishley is doing these days…?

 

(Credit to TIA)

Edited October 19, 2009 by Agt Provocateur
Not credited to TIA

[Herp McDerp]

Just read through it, some I agree with, some I don't, daft thread title.

[Jennings]

Is that your own work, mate?

[Rex Banner]

Is that your own work, mate?

Only if he is Gareth Roberts

Why Rafa could quit – This Is Anfield (Liverpool FC)

[JohnnyH]

I support Rafa, yet that thread title is written by a mong. There is no way people can be vilified for questioning Rafa. He has made mistakes. Certainly not enough for some of the hysterical crap that's written here, but certainly enough to question him.

 

That post shows some of the real good work Rafa has done that is readily ignored by the people that want Rafa out. It also again raises the question that if Rafa had been fully supported in the transfer market (yes he wasted £40m last year but we are seeing how good Barry is now and he wanted him first) that maybe we would have a title or two under our belts. But it also raises the question that we are now taking steps backwards and if that continues, then we may be looking for a new maanger as well as owners this summer.

[Maniacworld]

copied from somewhere..saw it on some other site few hours back

[Hermes]

Managers, as with players should be judged on what they have achieved recently not what they achieved a few years ago, especially at another club.

 

Otherwise we may as well appoint George Graham as manager and have Ian Rush up front.

[Hermes]

 

It’s clear he likes to be loved.

 

Really? he doesn't reciprocate that love to his players.

[Catch22]

Last season year our PL performance was a miracle (noone has ever before come as high as 2nd in the Bosman era from our budgetary rank).

 

However, the men responsible for that extreme out-performance (Rafa,Torres,Gerrard & Alonso) demanded to be paid for it, as anyone on this Board would after spectacular success at work.

 

We couldn't afford to pay all of them so a key player departed.

 

On top of that there is the normal mean reversion: miracles, by definition, cant keep on happening every year.

 

City have upped the ante & are guaranteed a CL spot alongside the Mancs & the Chavs.

 

That always meant that we were competing with Arse for the 1 remaining slot, & to expect anything more than that is simply naive.

 

However, the start so far has still been very disappointing & Arse look distinctly a better side: Clearly Rafa is reponsible for a large part of that.

[Hermes]

Last season year our PL performance was a miracle (noone has ever before come as high as 2nd in the Bosman era from our budgetary rank).

 

 

That's total bollocks. Besides, plenty of clubs have outperformed their "budgetary rank" numerous times. I've never demanded the title from Rafa but some of the excuses for him on here are hilarious.

[JohnnyH]

Last season year our PL performance was a miracle (noone has ever before come as high as 2nd in the Bosman era from our budgetary rank).

 

However, the men responsible for that extreme out-performance (Rafa,Torres,Gerrard & Alonso) demanded to be paid for it, as anyone on this Board would after spectacular success at work.

 

We couldn't afford to pay all of them so a key player departed.

 

On top of that there is the normal mean reversion: miracles, by definition, cant keep on happening every year.

 

City have upped the ante & are guaranteed a CL spot alongside the Mancs & the Chavs.

 

That always meant that we were competing with Arse for the 1 remaining slot, & to expect anything more than that is simply naive.

 

However, the start so far has still been very disappointing & Arse look distinctly a better side: Clearly Rafa is reponsible for a large part of that.

 

No idea how you came to that conclusion. The manager of City is not good enough to get a CL position and when all 4 top strikers are fit and fighting for 2 spots, you just watch the wheels come off when Robinho and Adeybayor are bitching and moaning in the press.

[Catch22]

That's total bollocks. Besides, plenty of clubs have outperformed their "budgetary rank" numerous times. I've never demanded the title from Rafa but some of the excuses for him on here are hilarious.

 

Apologies if i have missed them but who precisely has come 2nd then with the 4th or lower budget?

[Catch22]

No idea how you came to that conclusion. The manager of City is not good enough to get a CL position and when all 4 top strikers are fit and fighting for 2 spots, you just watch the wheels come off when Robinho and Adeybayor are bitching and moaning in the press.

 

 

I agree that he is poor but it doesn't really matter who is in charge when you are outspending everyone else to the tune that they are.

(Look at the Chavs, 2nd with either Ranieri or Grant)

 

Players win football matchs & players go where they get paid.

 

(Ourselves,Mancs & Arse all lost incumbent players or targets to City, all of whom would improve their sides tremendously)

[Royal Family]

Scaremongering nonsense. The main reason given that rafa might resign is that he could just be fed up with fans on internet fora and phone-in radio shows, and criticism from the media. Well, if ANY manager resigns for one of those reasons, they are quite simply in the wrong profession. He might have resigned last year. but now he's got a lucrative 4-year deal which makes him bomb-proof, he's hardly just going to walk out becasue of a few nasty comments, is he?!

 

Now, if the original author had said rafa might walk out for another club becasue he can only see his reputation plummeting if he stays at Liverpool in their current financial situation - a la Houllier, who took a long time to land another plum job - then there might be a case.

[Hermes]

Apologies if i have missed them but who precisely has come 2nd then with the 4th or lower budget?

 

Arsenal won 3 championships between Bosman and the Emirates stadium being built. In the last 10 years they have spent next to nothing on players, bringing in more or less what they spent.

[Flying Pig]

Great article. I'm disappointed, as we all are, but I believe he's the right man for us.

[JohnnyH]

I agree that he is poor but it doesn't really matter who is in charge when you are outspending everyone else to the tune that they are.

 

Players win football matchs & players go where they get paid.

 

(Ourselves,Mancs & Arse all lost incumbent players or targets to City, all of whom would improve their sides tremendously)

 

I accept what you are saying and I firmly believe that if Rafa had that type of backing, that we'd piss the league, but I think their manager is just not good enough and their top players are not as good as the other teams top players. I think it'll be the same top 4 again, but in a different order. I also think that Spurs will finish ahead of City.

[Catch22]

Arsenal won 3 championships between Bosman and the Emirates stadium being built. In the last 10 years they have spent next to nothing on players, bringing in more or less what they spent.

 

Arse were the 2nd,2nd & 3rd highest payers in their title years.

 

Fees are largely irrelevant:We've spent about £80m on fees & over half a billion on salaries under Rafa.

[JohnnyH]

Arsenal won 3 championships between Bosman and the Emirates stadium being built. In the last 10 years they have spent next to nothing on players, bringing in more or less what they spent.

 

Arsenal spent decent money on Henry, Bergkamp, Reyes, etc to build those title winning squads. It's when they stopped spending that the trophies dried up.

[Tom R]

Don't let the door bang your arse on the way out.

[cmuller]

Really? he doesn't reciprocate that love to his players.

 

It's not clear he likes to be loved at all though - respect and to be given the resources to do his job? Yes. But loved? No.

[Sponky]

However, the men responsible for that extreme out-performance (Rafa,Torres,Gerrard & Alonso) demanded to be paid for it, as anyone on this Board would after spectacular success at work.

 

We couldn't afford to pay all of them so a key player departed.

 

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

I was of the thinking that trying to flog Alonso to Italy the previous summer and Rafa's persistent courting of a Gareth Barry was the reason he chose to move.

[Catch22]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

I was of the thinking that trying to flog Alonso to Italy the previous summer and Rafa's persistent courting of a Gareth Barry was the reason he chose to move on!

 

He is on the UK pre-tax equivalent of £185-190k a week at RM.

There is no way on earth we can get close to to that, whether he thinks Rafa is the biggest cunt or best manager in the world.

[Hermes]

It's not clear he likes to be loved at all though - respect and to be given the resources to do his job? Yes. But loved? No.

 

5 years, signed >50 players. Spent more than every Liverpool manager in history combined and more than his rivals in recent seasons, given total dictatorial power over the football side of the club.

 

What resources is he missing?

[Catch22]

5 years, signed >50 players. Spent more than every Liverpool manager in history combined and more than his rivals in recent seasons, given total dictatorial power over the football side of the club.

 

What resources is he missing?

 

"more than his rivals in recent seasons"

 

Complete nonsense,as you well know.

We've been comfortable 4th every year & this year will be 4th or 5th with Arse (its too close to call until the final numbers are out)

 

You are very knowledgeable about football: If Rafa has made as many mistakes as you think, why do you feel the need to make statements that you know are incorrect to back your case up?