For the anti Rafa mongs....

[Sponky]

Hard to say at the moment mate due to it been so early in the season.

 

Chelsea have just lost their last two away games to Wigan and Aston Villa.

 

Man United have already lost to Burnley and were lucky to get a draw against Sunderland and to a lesser extent the 3 points against Man City.

 

All the top teams will lose more this season then they have done over the last few campaigns because teams like City, Sunderland, Villa, Spurs etc have all strengthened their players whereas ourselves and Man United have potentially weakened it.

 

At this stage in the season we should not have lost 4 games but victory on Sunday puts us 4 points behind Man United with our squad shortly about to get to full strength means that no way are we out of it.

 

Defeat obviously for me does make it very difficult and we would then have to plan purely for Champions League qualification.

 

You never know an FA Cup or League Cup along the way.

 

I agree it is early on in the season and i'm sure that once our top first 11 are fit then we will finish in the top 4 no problems.

 

When we were 9-10 points clear with a game in hand over united last January we should of gone onto win the league. We fucked it up badly in that period and a late flurish was not enough. That was Rafa's big chance for me.

 

What with us having a very poor squad outside of our first 11, i can't see us winning shit this season to be honest!

 

Lucas has no vision and seems to play in slow mode, Vorinin & ngog painfully poor, babel headless & spineless, Riera lazy and out of form. Dossena , aurillio, shite!

 

These are all Rafa's players. I mean my grandma would of known to buy Torres!

Edited October 19, 2009 by Sponky

[Red Nick]

I dont agree with Catch22's assertion that Man City are guaranteed to get a CL spot, but right now I am quite worried about us getting one.

 

The entire squad and support base is fucked confidence wise. Three defeats on the spin and three abysmal performances. A win of any kind is very important tomorrow night to get us back into the swing of things.

 

If we get our form back it will be us and Arsenal fighting for 4th

[Catch22]

I agree it is early on in the season and i'm sure that once our top first 11 are fit then we will finish in the top 4 no problems.

 

When we were 9-10 points clear with a game in hand over united last January we should of gone onto win the league. We fucked it up badly in that period and a late flurish was not enough. That was Rafa's big chance for me.

 

What with us having a very poor squad outside of our first 11, i can't see us winning shit this season to be honest!

 

On 30.12 we were 7 points clear of the Mancs but they had 2 games in hand.

English Premier League 2008-2009 Table - statto.com

 

They had played all the top4 teams away but all had yet to visit Old Trafford.

 

We never once went inside the Mancs in the betting market.

 

It is a complete myth to say that we were ever far ahead of them & blew it.

[The Golden Eel]

For me it's United and Chelsea top 2 and 2 of 3 for the next two; us, City and Arsenal... I still think City will miss out. They've started well, but are they that much better than last year? Jury's still out for me...

 

That said, even contemplating a fight for fourth place at this stage of the season is very disappointing. We need to start winning again tomorrow night and then bash the Mancs on Sunday - we have every chance IMO, especailly if the big boys are back...

[Carra_is_legend]

On 30.12 we were 7 points clear of the Mancs but they had 2 games in hand.

English Premier League 2008-2009 Table - statto.com

 

They had played all the top4 teams away but all had yet to visit Old Trafford.

 

We never once went inside the Mancs in the betting market.

 

It is a complete myth to say that we were ever far ahead of them & blew it.

 

Myth? How is it a fucking myth? We WERE ahead of them last season and we fucking BLEW it. We blew it because we couldn't win a fucking game in January.

[Catch22]

Myth? How is it a fucking myth? We WERE ahead of them last season and we fucking BLEW it. We blew it because we couldn't win a fucking game in January.

 

7 points ahead when they have 2 games in hand & we still have to visit OT (where on average they get a result, just as we do on average at Anfield) is not miles ahead.

 

(Also they had played all their hard fixtures 1st. If we played the other top 5 & the BS away & picked up 10 pts that would be a great return. If we played the bottom 5 at Anfield, it would be poor)

 

If we draw the 1st leg of a CL game 2-2, it is a great result if we were away & terrible if we had played at home.

 

It was still in both our hands on 30.12 -if either team won every game they won it, come what may.

 

We were never favourites for the League. If we had blown it, we would have been at some stage, before we blew it.

[Carra_is_legend]

7 points ahead when they have 2 games in hand & we still have to visit OT (where on average they get a result, just as we do ona verage at Anfield) is not miles ahead.

 

(Also they had played all their hard fixtures 1st. If we played the other top 5 & the BS away & picked up 10 pts that would be a great return. If we played the bottom 5 at Anfield, it would be poor)

 

It was still in their hands on 30.12 (if they won every game they won it, come what may)

 

7 points ahead and 2 games in hand for them means it wasn't in their fucking hands. It means it was on our fucking hands! And it would have still been on our hands had we won 2 games in January instead of drawing the whole lot.

 

For fuck sake, argue about the wages, net spend, Rafa is a genius and all that but to say we DID NOT blew last season beggars belief.

[JohanH]

7 points ahead and 2 games in hand for them means it wasn't in their fucking hands. It means it was on our fucking hands! And it would have still been on our hands had we won 2 games in January instead of drawing the whole lot.

 

For fuck sake, argue about the wages, net spend, Rafa is a genius and all that but to say we DID NOT blew last season beggars belief.

 

They had a home game against us, so if they won the 2 games in hand and beat us they would win the league. So it was in their own hands. (We also had it in our own hands provided we won our games and did not lose at OT)

[Sponky]

On 30.12 we were 7 points clear of the Mancs but they had 2 games in hand.

English Premier League 2008-2009 Table - statto.com

 

They had played all the top4 teams away but all had yet to visit Old Trafford.

 

We never once went inside the Mancs in the betting market.

 

It is a complete myth to say that we were ever far ahead of them & blew it.

 

Ok, i was a couple of points out statto! 30.12? thats a couple of days off for fucks sake.

 

Fuck me you must have two browsers open, one with the liverpool way and the other wikpidia!

 

We still blew it in Januray!!!

[Carra_is_legend]

We were never favourites for the League. If we had blown it, we would have been at some stage, before we blew it.

 

Christ on a bike.

 

We will never be favourites unless we lead the table by 10 points with 5 games to go. That is because we haven't won the thing for so damn long. On the other hand United have won it time and time again - sometimes even when they were trailing by a decent margin.

 

Catch, I have a lot of respect for you here and you do make some fantastic points - but please don't say we didn't blow it last season.

[Catch22]

7 points ahead and 2 games in hand for them means it wasn't in their fucking hands. It means it was on our fucking hands! And it would have still been on our hands had we won 2 games in January instead of drawing the whole lot.

 

For fuck sake, argue about the wages, net spend, Rafa is a genius and all that but to say we DID NOT blew last season beggars belief.

 

Yes it does as they still had to play us.

 

They win the 2 in hand, they are 1 behind, they win against us they are 2 ahead.

 

They are not relying on our results against other teams at all, which is what "in your own hands" means

 

"Blew it" means that we had a strong position, from which we fucked up.

 

This completely ignores the fact that they had games in hand & crucially had played all their difficult games already (they had played all the top 10 away before Xmas, i think)

 

Why were we never favourites for the PL then?

(EDIT: I see you have answered this in another post- fair enough)

[Antynwa]

Blame anyone and everyone but Benitez

[Carra_is_legend]

They had a home game against us, so if they won the 2 games in hand and beat us they would win the league. So it was in their own hands. (We also had it in our own hands provided we won our games and did not lose at OT)

 

Yeah, and if my aunty had bollocks she would be my.....

 

If they had beaten us.....IF....it is a massive IF as we found out in the HOME game against Arsenal and they found out in their HOME game against us.

 

Last season was our best chance to win the title in many many years and we blew it. There are no two ways about it.

[Sponky]

Why were we never favourites for the PL then?

(EDIT: I see you have answered this in another post- fair enough)

 

Because are squad, apart from our first 11 is, was shite!

[hamstrung]

Same shit, different day.

[Catch22]

Christ on a bike.

 

We will never be favourites unless we lead the table by 10 points with 5 games to go. That is because we haven't won the thing for so damn long. On the other hand United have won it time and time again - sometimes even when they were trailing by a decent margin.

 

Catch, I have a lot of respect for you here and you do make some fantastic points - but please don't say we didn't blow it last season.

 

 

I think we wasted a fantastic set of results in the top 4 mini-League, mainly thru the home draws.

 

However, we did not "blow" a fantastic lead as we never had one- The Mancs always had games in hand & easy fixtures to come.

[Sponky]

Same shit, different day.

 

Correct!

[Carra_is_legend]

Yes it does as they still had to play us.

 

They win the 2 in hand, they are 1 behind, they win against us they are 2 ahead.

 

They are not relying on our results against other teams at all, which is what "in your own hands" means

 

"Blew it" means that we had a strong position, from which we fucked up.

 

This completely ignores the fact that they had games in hand & crucially had played all their difficult games already (they had played all the top 10 away before Xmas, i think)

 

Yeah, IF they win all 38 games, they WILL win the title. But it hardly goes that way does it?

 

They had to play us but they HAD to win it to go ahead. If we had done our job upto the United game, even if we were 1 point ahead at that point, it would have been in OUR hands, right? if they had beaten us, sure, they would have gone ahead of us. But to say it was in their own hands in December as they were due to play us in Feb/march is fucking stupid.

[Antynwa]

Don't blame it on tactics

Don't blame it on team selections

Don't blame it on Leiva

Blame it on Net Spend

 

We include, we include, we include conversions to Euros.

[coop]

We had a chance last season but the draws as we all know cost us.

 

The players needed to step up their performance but mainly the manager had to approach every game like we did towards the end of the season and that was to go at teams from the off.

 

Had we been more positive in our approach against the lesser teams in the Premier League then last season we would have won it.

 

I still think last seasons performance was a superb one in the condition we are in and hopefully we can reproduce some of the performances like against Madrid and United as this season continues.

[Catch22]

Yeah, IF they win all 38 games, they WILL win the title. But it hardly goes that way does it?

 

They had to play us but they HAD to win it to go ahead. If we had done our job upto the United game, even if we were 1 point ahead at that point, it would have been in OUR hands, right? if they had beaten us, sure, they would have gone ahead of us. But to say it was in their own hands in December as they were due to play us in Feb/march is fucking stupid.

 

It is in every team's hands at the start of the season, but that doesn't last long

For instance, it is already out of our hands. Even if we win every game from now, the Chavs will have to drop points to someone else

 

Even if you ignore that concept, then the myth that we blew a big lead is just that:a myth.

 

It completely ignores games in hand & crucially fixture distribution.

 

They had played all their difficult away games already.

 

We wasted our best chance for a long time; we did not blow a big lead.

[Xherdan]

If we get our form back it will be us and Arsenal fighting for 4th

 

 

 

A run of two or more losses or poor results and City will be in difficulty.

[Dan Vito Corleone]

I thought City were very lucky to get a result yesterday.

[Tom R]

We're shit right now because Rafa has built a piss poor, paper thin squad.

End of fucking story.

 

And we completely blew it last season. It was our best chance for donkey's years, and anyone who says otherwise is fucking deluded.

 

That doesn't mean we were good last season either by the way. For 2 thirds of last season we played as badly or worse than we have this season, we just had a shit load more luck.

 

We're getting worse is the sorry truth. Our squad has less depth to it now than when Rafa first joined us. That's fucking piss poor. I don't care how you paint it with wages and net spends and all that other shitty bollocks.

 

We have a weak squad.

We're losing games because of it.

That's the Manager's fault.

 

Teh End.

[coop]

Once Aquilani, Agger, Aurelio, Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano are all fit and firing all of a sudden the squad doesn't look so shite.

 

Any team would be weaker without Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano and we don't have the money to be able to have a £20m striker waiting in the wings for when Torres is injured or a £20m attacking midfielder waiting to come in for Gerrard and the same for Mascherano.

 

Rafa has bought some complete dogshit in Voronin, Degen, Dossena, Babel to name but a few but like i said any team would suffer without probably the best striker in the world and the best all round midfielder in its team.