A thread about a man named Xabi

[Ted]

Probably his STD results coming back. Hence the excitement.

[jackofdk]

Why have we never won any of our finals under Rafa after 90 minutes if he is such an awesome manager, you would think he would be able to outsmart these other infidels instead of riding his luck with penalties all the time?

 

04/05: League Cup, lost after extra time.

04/05: Champions League, won after penalties.

 

05/06: UEFA Supercup, won after extra time

05/06: FIFA World Club Cup, lost after 90 minutes.

05/06: FA Cup, won after penalties.

 

06/07: Champions League, lost after 90 minutes.

 

Since then, fuck all.

 

The reason for the post is that I would not rate one managers performance and tactics in any games above the opposition manager as long as penalties are the decider in that game.

 

So based on your hand picked statistic sample, you believe to have proven that Rafa is in fact not a very good manager? I despair.

 

You come across as the worst kind of stupid there is - the one who thinks he's really clever and underrated by his peers - but who really hasn't got a clue.

[Code]

So based on your hand picked statistic sample, you believe to have proven that Rafa is in fact not a very good manager? I despair.

 

You come across as the worst kind of stupid there is - the one who thinks he's really clever and underrated by his peers - but who really hasn't got a clue.

 

Oh really.

 

My hand picked statistic is nothing more than Rafa`s results in the finals he has been here and the reality is that we have never won anything after 90 minutes and the two finals which actually means anything have been won after penalty shoot outs, which in reality is a bit of a lottery even if having a great keeper at penalties always helps.

 

These are cold hard facts, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

 

So why do we keep hearing about what an fantastic manager he is then compared to a few others out there, names not given at the moment, because of these achievments?

 

Could it be we that we already would have won the league with a different manager, could it be we had our best chance for years this season but our managers reluctancy to really go for the punch before we were chasing the mancs is what has cost us the title, what if we regress next season like we did after we finished second in 01/02 under Houllier and like we did after the 05/06 season undcer Rafa.

 

Do you think we will get 14 out of possible 18 points against the other top 4 clubs next season, if so why do you think that and if not we have to make up the points from somewhere else not only the points we did not manage to get this season but also the points either Chelsea or the mancs will gain on us again if they can take points from us?

 

Next season is again make or break for Rafa in my opinion, deliver the title or step aside as we need to bring in someone who actually can.

 

6 years is more than enough especially seeing it has been a rollercoaster ride all allong these 6 years and we have not actually seen any steady improvement anywhere.

 

Read more here.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/79002-progress-not.html

[Yahweh]

Oh really.

 

My hand picked statistic is nothing more than Rafa`s results in the finals he has been here and the reality is that we have never won anything after 90 minutes and the two finals which actually means anything have been won after penalty shoot outs, which in reality is a bit of a lottery even if having a great keeper at penalties always helps.

 

These are cold hard facts, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

 

Read more here.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/79002-progress-not.html

 

So Istanbul and Cardiff were nothing more than luck??I guess that goes for Rome 84 or United in 08 or Arsenals FA Cup win in 2005??

 

Opposition fans have more of a difficult time than you labelling Istanbul as lucky,seemingly.

 

You've obviously got some neurotic dislike of the manager and you will happily go out of your twisting statistics to try and strengthen your 'opinions'........well done.

 

You saying we've made no real improvement,no real progression under Benitez is just utterly laughable and cannot be taken seriously.

 

By the way,that thread consists of nothing more than a bunch of people disagreeing with you.

[shanks59]

Oh really.

 

My hand picked statistic is nothing more than Rafa`s results in the finals he has been here and the reality is that we have never won anything after 90 minutes and the two finals which actually means anything have been won after penalty shoot outs, which in reality is a bit of a lottery even if having a great keeper at penalties always helps.

 

These are cold hard facts, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

 

So why do we keep hearing about what an fantastic manager he is then compared to a few others out there, names not given at the moment, because of these achievments?

 

Could it be we that we already would have won the league with a different manager, could it be we had our best chance for years this season but our managers reluctancy to really go for the punch before we were chasing the mancs is what has cost us the title, what if we regress next season like we did after we finished second in 01/02 under Houllier and like we did after the 05/06 season undcer Rafa.

 

Do you think we will get 14 out of possible 18 points against the other top 4 clubs next season, if so why do you think that and if not we have to make up the points from somewhere else not only the points we did not manage to get this season but also the points either Chelsea or the mancs will gain on us again if they can take points from us?

 

Next season is again make or break for Rafa in my opinion, deliver the title or step aside as we need to bring in someone who actually can.

 

6 years is more than enough especially seeing it has been a rollercoaster ride all allong these 6 years and we have not actually seen any steady improvement anywhere.

 

Read more here.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/79002-progress-not.html

 

A very surprising post, why so anti, who could realistically do as good a job as Rafa .. :whistle:

[Catch22]

Oh really.

 

My hand picked statistic is nothing more than Rafa`s results in the finals he has been here and the reality is that we have never won anything after 90 minutes and the two finals which actually means anything have been won after penalty shoot outs, which in reality is a bit of a lottery even if having a great keeper at penalties always helps.

 

These are cold hard facts, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

 

So why do we keep hearing about what an fantastic manager he is then compared to a few others out there, names not given at the moment, because of these achievments?

 

Could it be we that we already would have won the league with a different manager, could it be we had our best chance for years this season but our managers reluctancy to really go for the punch before we were chasing the mancs is what has cost us the title, what if we regress next season like we did after we finished second in 01/02 under Houllier and like we did after the 05/06 season undcer Rafa.

 

Do you think we will get 14 out of possible 18 points against the other top 4 clubs next season, if so why do you think that and if not we have to make up the points from somewhere else not only the points we did not manage to get this season but also the points either Chelsea or the mancs will gain on us again if they can take points from us?

 

Next season is again make or break for Rafa in my opinion, deliver the title or step aside as we need to bring in someone who actually can.

 

6 years is more than enough especially seeing it has been a rollercoaster ride all allong these 6 years and we have not actually seen any steady improvement anywhere.

 

Read more here.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/79002-progress-not.html

 

 

You search & search for statistics but completely ignore the most important correlator to finishing position which is how much a team spends on wages.

 

Nobody has ever won the PL from as far back (4th or lower) as our budget position is.

 

Now that doesn't mean they never will but it does mean that to demand it is frankly absurd

 

We had an exceptional League season last year for which credit should go to Rafa, the players, including Xabi & our rivals' failings which won't be repeated.

[kick316]

Why have we never won any of our finals under Rafa after 90 minutes if he is such an awesome manager, you would think he would be able to outsmart these other infidels instead of riding his luck with penalties all the time?

 

04/05: League Cup, lost after extra time.

04/05: Champions League, won after penalties.

 

05/06: UEFA Supercup, won after extra time

05/06: FIFA World Club Cup, lost after 90 minutes.

05/06: FA Cup, won after penalties.

 

06/07: Champions League, lost after 90 minutes.

 

Since then, fuck all.

 

So to be a good manager, you have to win your games in 90 minutes? Any result that comes after 90 minutes doesn't count? :whatever:

 

The reason for the post is that I would not rate one managers performance and tactics in any games above the opposition manager as long as penalties are the decider in that game.

 

What about being able to reach the finals in the first place? Or does that not count if any of the matches were won in extra time and/or penalties?

[INTORRESTING]

Dismissing penalties now? You need the right sort of mentality to score penalties and as a team we have that as we have only ever lost one competitive shoot out.

 

Is it not a skill taking it to pens knowing we are good at penalties and having the best pen saver in the world therefore going in with a psychological advantage whilst the other team know how good we are?

 

It doesn't seem to be a lottery when we take penalties.

 

Would you you not like to see Rafa in a situation with no problems off the pitch as i am sure progress (however you judge it) would be faster

Edited June 30, 2009 by INTORRESTING

[coop]

I think another thing to take into account is Alonso's stock is high at the moment especially with Madrid splashing the cash and in 12 months you could potentially value him at £20m then obviously around the £12m the year after that.

 

Also only Madrid are the team showing an interest and if they had not declared that they want to sign Alonso how much would he be valued if it was such as Juve coming back in for him.

 

Im not advocating selling all our players when they are in their prime but if there is a feeling that Xabi is considering leaving then now is the time to get the maximum price for him instead of waiting another 12 months.

[INTORRESTING]

Why have we never won any of our finals under Rafa after 90 minutes if he is such an awesome manager, you would think he would be able to outsmart these other infidels instead of riding his luck with penalties all the time?

 

04/05: League Cup, lost after extra time.

04/05: Champions League, won after penalties.

 

05/06: UEFA Supercup, won after extra time

05/06: FIFA World Club Cup, lost after 90 minutes.

05/06: FA Cup, won after penalties.

 

06/07: Champions League, lost after 90 minutes.

 

Since then, fuck all.

 

The reason for the post is that I would not rate one managers performance and tactics in any games above the opposition manager as long as penalties are the decider in that game.

 

You and Toxteth failed to answer my question, accept something for once instead of writing nonsense statistics, you two are like a brass eye sketch

 

Our team spirit and togetherness must be pretty good considering our fightbacks this season, how did rafa do that?

[TommyW]

Code, to be fair you've come up with a stat which if I had heard as part of a question in a pub quiz I might have thought 'oh yea, mildly interesting that' for a split second before confining it to the part of the brain that stores that type of mildly interesting but ultimately pointless information

 

you however have come up with the stat and have developed it into something far bigger than its true worth, there may be a stat that Rafa hasnt won a trophy with goals scored between 15 and 25 minutes (lord knows I havent checked), could that be turned into a critique of the managers training regimes or tactics?

[Thants]

So based on your hand picked statistic sample, you believe to have proven that Rafa is in fact not a very good manager? I despair.

 

You come across as the worst kind of stupid there is - the one who thinks he's really clever and underrated by his peers - but who really hasn't got a clue.

 

He hand picks so much his favourite manager is Joe Fagin.

 

Wa wa waaa

[Whelan]

Hmmm so penalties and extra time don't count now eh?

 

Why stop there, why not discount all those goals scored in injury time? All those goals scored in the last ten minutes (since all players have less energy than they do for the first 80 minutes), what about all goals scored by left footers?

 

Ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous.

[coop]

Real Madrid | El donostiarra quiere definir su futuro cuanto antes : Xabi Alonso aterrizó y se reunió con su agente - AS.com

 

Xabi Alonso landed and met with its agent Xabi Alonso takes a step more to be dressed of of Madrid. ACE hunted yesterday to the mediocentro Basque after maintained a meeting in the Hotel Meliá you Shuffle with its representative, Iñaki Ibáñez. The objective: to draw the plan to convince to Benítez that sell to the Madrid...

 

Xabi Alonso already is hands to the work to accelerate its exit of Anfield with direction to the Bernabéu. And the from San Sebastian does not want to lose neither a second. Yesterday, and despite carry in the body ten from South Africa trip hours, nothing more to land in Madrid displaced itself quickly to the Hotel Meliá you Shuffle to eat with its agent, Iñaki Ibáñez.

 

ACE was a witness of a summit in which both drew the lines to continue in the next days to convince to Benítez that arrive at an agreement with the company of Chamartín. The positions are thus: the reds ask 41 million and the Madrid puts 24 with idea to rise to 30... After the encounter with its agent, Xabi attended to this newspaper and was shown cautious. It moved carefully on its future ("do Not I know what is going to pass"), but dropped a phrase that evidence that already has made its decision: "They are the clubs the ones that should negotiate now. ..”. Holidays.

 

And the fact is that Xabi Alonso handles a date limit so that crystallize its sale to the Madrid: July 19. That day is cited in Liverpool to initiate the pre-season and that of Tolosa, that yesterday went to San Sebastián of holidays, prefers that the soap be finished already for organize its move to Madrid. In fact, just as published The Times last Saturday, before going to South Africa already said goodbye to the employees of the Liverpool...

 

Another that is in the Operation Anfield is Arbeloa, that yesterday met with its agent, Garcia Quilón, nothing more to arrive at Spain. The Madrid would pay 35 kilograms by him and Xabi Alonso.

[El Rojo]

Oh really.

 

My hand picked statistic is nothing more than Rafa`s results in the finals he has been here and the reality is that we have never won anything after 90 minutes and the two finals which actually means anything have been won after penalty shoot outs, which in reality is a bit of a lottery even if having a great keeper at penalties always helps.

 

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/79002-progress-not.html

 

It's nothing like a lottery unless both teams are completely unprepared.

 

The most focussed team which keeps nerves at bay invariably wins, which is why Germany have such an amazing record in such situations.

 

No concidence that we were that team in both games and in the '07 semi-final against Chelsea.

[ToxtethTerror]

Code - have you seen some of United's wins? Their treble in 1999 was a fluke all the way through, the CL last season was won on penalties and were it not for John Terry bottling they would have lost.

 

It's idiotic not to give credit to Rafa for the things he has won, just like it is idiotic to turn a blind eye to his failings.

[redrosetints]

I think you are still missing the point. I think Xabi wants to go, I agree with this, what I was trying to caution was that I am not sure it's all Rafa's fault. That was what I meant, that on the basis of what we know and the channels it has arrived from and it's not just your source, there's been multiple sources, things lose meaning along the way and, in essence Rafa has no opportunity to reply, people shouldn't be so quick to readily blame Rafa for all of it.

 

Much like the Keane storys from last Autumn. Gillet and Parry both told SoS the one about Rafa saying he'd sell Xabi for 18m and buy Barry more cheaply and yet it seems that noone from SoS or anywhere else has ever asked Rafa for confirmation or to put his side across. As i said last summer, people are taking that as fact, it is still mentioned on here as fact and yet it has come from two of Rafas biggest critics, who clearly have an axe to grind. Maybe it is true, maybe its not but without hearing both sides you can't draw a reasonable conclusion as the sources making hte claim are not at all in any way neutral.

[Whelan]

Code - have you seen some of United's wins? Their treble in 1999 was a fluke all the way through, the CL last season was won on penalties and were it not for John Terry bottling they would have lost.

 

It's idiotic not to give credit to Rafa for the things he has won, just like it is idiotic to turn a blind eye to his failings.

 

WHAT FAILINGS!!!

 

Josemi was simply quicker than most players on the pitch, so although his passes looked to be ten yards ahead of the player, it was actually the player who was ten yards behind. Had he played in this team he would have been hailed as a great.

 

I can prove this on Excel.

[Whelan]

Much like the Keane storys from last Autumn. Gillet and Parry both told SoS the one about Rafa saying he'd sell Xabi for 18m and buy Barry more cheaply and yet it seems that noone from SoS or anywhere else has ever asked Rafa for confirmation or to put his side across. As i said last summer, people are taking that as fact, it is still mentioned on here as fact and yet it has come from two of Rafas biggest critics, who clearly have an axe to grind. Maybe it is true, maybe its not but without hearing both sides you can't draw a reasonable conclusion as the sources making hte claim are not at all in any way neutral.

 

That is a good point, and with regards Bascombes input, blindingly obvious. However, everybody seems very quick to apportion blame, but I think IF Alonso does move, you can understand the stance taken by all sides. Xabi is a nice bloke, a genuine class act and I for one do not beleive he is petty nor small minded enough to leave us just to spite Rafa, equally, although I think Rafa is ruthless I do not think he will sell a player, and weaken the club, just out of spite. Rafa's aloofness works both ways, he doesn't get close enough to give a shit whether they like him or not!

30 million quid is a lot of money for a player who was not worth 12 million last year, if 30 million brings in Silva then it COULD make us a better team. I won't hold anything against Xabi at all and can completely understand why he wants to move, and from what I have seen from his behaviour these last five seasons it is not about money.

[Owen]

we have not actually seen any steady improvement anywhere.

 

I'm sorry Code, but that's nothing short of moronic.

[aws]

Real Madrid | El donostiarra quiere definir su futuro cuanto antes : Xabi Alonso aterrizó y se reunió con su agente - AS.com

 

Xabi Alonso landed and met with its agent Xabi Alonso takes a step more to be dressed of of Madrid. ACE hunted yesterday to the mediocentro Basque after maintained a meeting in the Hotel Meliá you Shuffle with its representative, Iñaki Ibáñez. The objective: to draw the plan to convince to Benítez that sell to the Madrid...

 

Xabi Alonso already is hands to the work to accelerate its exit of Anfield with direction to the Bernabéu. And the from San Sebastian does not want to lose neither a second. Yesterday, and despite carry in the body ten from South Africa trip hours, nothing more to land in Madrid displaced itself quickly to the Hotel Meliá you Shuffle to eat with its agent, Iñaki Ibáñez.

 

ACE was a witness of a summit in which both drew the lines to continue in the next days to convince to Benítez that arrive at an agreement with the company of Chamartín. The positions are thus: the reds ask 41 million and the Madrid puts 24 with idea to rise to 30... After the encounter with its agent, Xabi attended to this newspaper and was shown cautious. It moved carefully on its future ("do Not I know what is going to pass"), but dropped a phrase that evidence that already has made its decision: "They are the clubs the ones that should negotiate now. ..”. Holidays.

 

And the fact is that Xabi Alonso handles a date limit so that crystallize its sale to the Madrid: July 19. That day is cited in Liverpool to initiate the pre-season and that of Tolosa, that yesterday went to San Sebastián of holidays, prefers that the soap be finished already for organize its move to Madrid. In fact, just as published The Times last Saturday, before going to South Africa already said goodbye to the employees of the Liverpool...

 

Another that is in the Operation Anfield is Arbeloa, that yesterday met with its agent, Garcia Quilón, nothing more to arrive at Spain. The Madrid would pay 35 kilograms by him and Xabi Alonso.

 

 

Sell them both for 35 kilograms? That's a finely balanced judgement call.

[Thants]

Thats EU gone mad.

[cmuller]

Another that is in the Operation Anfield is Arbeloa,

 

Arbeloa doing stewarding duties? Nol wonder he is letting his deal run down. When Rafa wants you gone he makes you realise with stone cold clarity.

[redrosetints]

This is hypothetical, but if it's true that Xabi does have issues with Rafa, then surely the fact that he wants to leave proves that it's important that the manager has at least a decent relationship with his key players? You don't want your best players leaving because they don't get on with the boss.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

 

But we don't want Roy Evans back at the club do we ? Ok so thats an extreme, but ged got close to the players and that we saw the good and bad of that. Generally, I dont think its a good thing for players and managers to get too close as that leads to misplaced loyalty and lack of objectiviity.

 

For me, Sammys role is to be the pal of the players, he is the players confidant, Rafa is and should be more aloof and hasn't much of the frustration between the two, Xabi and Rafa, stemmed from Pako leaving ? Hence Xabi was never that close to Rafa anyway.

[redrosetints]

Sell them both for 35 kilograms? That's a finely balanced judgement call.

 

Depends what it is i suppose, if its Gold, at 18k a kilo were being short changed.

 

I suppose if it was smokey stuff, we could all just puff our way through the summer months and not worry bout the transfers, just getting more mars bars and rizla at 3am from the petrol station.

 

We could even start a thread on the best petrol stations.