A thread about a man named Xabi

[Dirk]

No, I know what you mean, and I do try to balance what i'm told with the fact that it may not be true. But then everything i've read in the press and on the websites etc only goes to back up what i've heard. Xabi hasn't come out and said he wants to stay, in fact he's being very unequivocal about things.

 

Rafa is releasing official statements on the website about it and explaining about how surprised he is that Xabi's agent wanted a meeting etc.

 

It just makes sense to me when I think about it all together. Then, when something you're told actually happens it only enhances your belief in what you're told, e.g. everyone was thinking that a deal to sign Barry was nailed on but I posted on here about a week before he went to Man City that it was far from certain - that turned out true so, as I said it only enhances your belief in what you're told.

 

That's not to say it definitely is true, because i'd never be able to be certain about it.

 

Believe me, i'd love nothing more than us to not even be talking about this. I want what is best for the team, and for me that includes Xabi Alonso playing within it, hence my frustration with this whole episode.

 

I think you are still missing the point. I think Xabi wants to go, I agree with this, what I was trying to caution was that I am not sure it's all Rafa's fault. That was what I meant, that on the basis of what we know and the channels it has arrived from and it's not just your source, there's been multiple sources, things lose meaning along the way and, in essence Rafa has no opportunity to reply, people shouldn't be so quick to readily blame Rafa for all of it.

[Yahweh]

I have a "professional relationship with the manager"; is totally different from "good relationship" in my opinion.

 

Yes,they don't need to be 'bezzie' mates and last season proved that.

 

All this 'Xabi hates Rafa' business is nonsense.

[Brownie]

I think you are still missing the point. I think Xabi wants to go, I agree with this, what I was trying to caution was that I am not sure it's all Rafa's fault. That was what I meant, that on the basis of what we know and the channels it has arrived from and it's not just your source, there's been multiple sources, things lose meaning along the way and, in essence Rafa has no opportunity to reply, people shouldn't be so quick to readily blame Rafa for all of it.

 

I haven't missed your point, you've made it loud and clear. It's clear that we disagree about it, that's fine.

 

I respect your opinion.

[WhiskeyJar]

I would have yes but these things aren't just done on the league - he has an exceptional record in Europe so deserves more time as he will have earnt it from his European exploits. He now has a 5 year contract so deserves more time whether we like it or not. The point was just to illustrate that Rafa is being given more than enough time to show us what he can do.

 

Back to the thread, this debate only came about when somebody mentioned that Alonso maybe is being replaced because Rafa wants us to be shirt passers like Saachi's Milan - another straw clutch - and I suggested that after 5 years we should have a style of play sorted. In fact we should have been challenging for the league long ago.

 

Right now though I want any player who wants out to just go and let us get on with it.

 

Thank God you are not part of any of the decision making process at the club. I am not saying that you are the only one that feels this way, but from where I see you seem to be dragging your heels than supporting the manager.

 

Do you even understand where Rafa brought us from to where we were to now in 5 years? Would anyone have done that and won major trophies with all the shambles that our club is in?

 

Its okay though, lets take your word for it and sack him. Lets not be reminded of all the flops that we had in Houlliers era and try to focus on the fact that Rafa is clueless. Let have fans like yourself throwing opionions around that just wind people up with mindless useless facts.

 

Benitez is the best signing that the club has ever made.

 

Time you saw that, respected the man and supported him because like it or not, he is here to stay.

 

And I am fucking gratefull that he is.

[WhiskeyJar]

Yes,they don't need to be 'bezzie' mates and last season proved that.

 

All this 'Xabi hates Rafa' business is nonsense.

 

I would rep you but gotta spread it around a bit.

[Brownie]

You see, this works both ways doesn't it? You have some people who say that Xabi hates Rafa and then other who say that it's rubbish! Talk about one extreme to the other.

 

How can you ridicule someone for having an extreme view, when your view is the polar opposite?!

[Stevie P]

Since when was it a necessity for a manager to have a 'good relationship' with a player? As long as he performs for him on the pitch is all that matters, and you can't say Xabi hasn't done that.

 

Some of the attempts to belittle the manager are getting more and more desperate. He's not the enemy.

[Brownie]

Since when was it a necessity for a manager to have a 'good relationship' with a player? As long as he performs for him on the pitch is all that matters, and you can't say Xabi hasn't done that.

 

Some of the attempts to belittle the manager are getting more and more desperate. He's not the enemy.

 

This is hypothetical, but if it's true that Xabi does have issues with Rafa, then surely the fact that he wants to leave proves that it's important that the manager has at least a decent relationship with his key players? You don't want your best players leaving because they don't get on with the boss.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

[ToxtethTerror]

This is hypothetical, but if it's true that Xabi does have issues with Rafa, then surely the fact that he wants to leave proves that it's important that the manager has at least a decent relationship with his key players? You don't want your best players leaving because they don't get on with the boss.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

 

Correct. Phil Scholari with England and maybe even Graham Souness at Liverpool would have done a whole lot better if the players were behind them. Clever managers ensure they have the full backing of their best players, Mourinho is a master of this. The players were his mates and would do anything for him.

[Kevin D]

Death is a part of baseball. Yeah,yeah the main part.

[INTORRESTING]

Sacking a man who got us within 2 draws from the title with his best 2 players barely playing whilst dealing with turmoil behind the scenes is madness surely?

 

We were incredible from Madrid onwards and i just cant see how someone wants to sack the manager and risk getting a dud and never catching united. If we keep our spine and add a match winner we will have a massive chance of landing the title.

 

I can understand if he had been given an enormous budget and got his first choices and had finished in poor league positions but considering what he has spent and what he has put up with plus he has come to a different league and inherited an awful squad, i think he has done pretty well.

 

I think we are best placed to be the next team to dominate when you look at the situation with the other teams.

 

He has made mistakes, signed shit players and made some funny decisions but i wonder if he would have done half the things he has with a settled team, club and a major budget?

[WhiskeyJar]

You see, this works both ways doesn't it? You have some people who say that Xabi hates Rafa and then other who say that it's rubbish! Talk about one extreme to the other.

 

How can you ridicule someone for having an extreme view, when your view is the polar opposite?!

 

Its not that extreme to think that Alonso was offended a bit and took personally by what Rafa try to do what he thought at the time was best for his team.

 

Rafa doenst hate Alonso, he just sees him as a player. A player who might or might not be unhappy by what happened a year ago. If Alonso does actaully HATE Rafa then there is not proof to support that. After what happend Alonso went on to perform his best season at the club.

 

A sign that he want to go or stay?

 

Lets face it, these "hate him" rumours did not come out until Madrid came knocking.

[meijer 09]

I would have yes but these things aren't just done on the league - he has an exceptional record in Europe so deserves more time as he will have earnt it from his European exploits. He now has a 5 year contract so deserves more time whether we like it or not. The point was just to illustrate that Rafa is being given more than enough time to show us what he can do.

 

Back to the thread, this debate only came about when somebody mentioned that Alonso maybe is being replaced because Rafa wants us to be shirt passers like Saachi's Milan - another straw clutch - and I suggested that after 5 years we should have a style of play sorted. In fact we should have been challenging for the league long ago.

 

Right now though I want any player who wants out to just go and let us get on with it.

 

Ok i just wanted to fully understand your point. We'll agree to disagree i wouldn't of sacked him as i think he inherited a bad squad and couldn't compete moneywise with chelsea or the filth. But now we have challenged lets all hope we win it on a regular basis again.

[Brownie]

Sacking a man who got us within 2 draws from the title with his best 2 players barely playing whilst dealing with turmoil behind the scenes is madness surely?

 

We were incredible from Madrid onwards and i just cant see how someone wants to sack the manager and risk getting a dud and never catching united. If we keep our spine and add a match winner we will have a massive chance of landing the title.

 

I can understand if he had been given an enormous budget and got his first choices and had finished in poor league positions but considering what he has spent and what he has put up with plus he has come to a different league and inherited an awful squad, i think he has done pretty well.

 

I think we are best placed to be the next team to dominate when you look at the situation with the other teams.

 

He has made mistakes, signed shit players and made some funny decisions but i wonder if he would have done half the things he has with a settled team, club and a major budget?

 

Who has suggested sacking Rafa?

[ToxtethTerror]

Benitez is the best signing that the club has ever made.

 

This is ridiculous hyperbole and what turns reasoned debate into utter bullshit. Kenny Dalglish is the best signing this club ever made... in every way - why would you say Benitez? You might have just said it off the cuff but why? Why the need to go that far?

[INTORRESTING]

Correct. Phil Scholari with England and maybe even Graham Souness at Liverpool would have done a whole lot better if the players were behind them. Clever managers ensure they have the full backing of their best players, Mourinho is a master of this. The players were his mates and would do anything for him.

 

Capello doesn't look too friendly with anyone. Matey Mourinho didn't get past us in europe did he?

[WhiskeyJar]

This is hypothetical, but if it's true that Xabi does have issues with Rafa, then surely the fact that he wants to leave proves that it's important that the manager has at least a decent relationship with his key players? You don't want your best players leaving because they don't get on with the boss.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

 

.......because we all know that Rafa is emotionally available to all of his players. Always there to wrap his arm around and coodle them.

 

Rafa is not that type of manager.

 

You either happy and perform or you dont and leave.

[Catch22]

This is hypothetical, but if it's true that Xabi does have issues with Rafa, then surely the fact that he wants to leave proves that it's important that the manager has at least a decent relationship with his key players? You don't want your best players leaving because they don't get on with the boss.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

 

If he hated him that much he would leave for anybody.

 

The fact is he wants to go to a team who will give him a 50% wage rise unless we match it.

It is happening thru-out Britain in other industries,thru-out football at other clubs, at our club with other players & has been as good as confirmed by Xabi's interviews in South Africa.

 

& There is absolutely nothing wrong with that attitude either.

 

Personally i feel we should give him what he wants as he is an excellent player but it is naive to believe complicated 4/5th party accounts when the simple view fits perfectly... Occam's razor & all that....

[Brownie]

Its not that extreme to think that Alonso was offended a bit and took personally by what Rafa try to do what he thought at the time was best for his team.

 

Rafa doenst hate Alonso, he just sees him as a player. A player who might or might not be unhappy by what happened a year ago. If Alonso does actaully HATE Rafa then there is not proof to support that. After what happend Alonso went on to perform his best season at the club.

 

A sign that he want to go or stay?

 

Lets face it, these "hate him" rumours did not come out until Madrid came knocking.

 

A sign that he's a real professional for me.

[ToxtethTerror]

Capello doesn't look too friendly with anyone. Matey Mourinho didn't get past us in europe did he?

 

"Matey Mourinho" has one of the best records" of any manager of the past 5 years - its a pointless argument to be honest.

[Yahweh]

This is hypothetical, but if it's true that Xabi does have issues with Rafa, then surely the fact that he wants to leave proves that it's important that the manager has at least a decent relationship with his key players? You don't want your best players leaving because they don't get on with the boss.

 

Is that not a fair statement?

 

I think it's pretty clear Rafa has the backing of the players.

[INTORRESTING]

Who has suggested sacking Rafa?

 

Over the course of the season many wanted him sacked, they even started knee jerk threads about it

[Yahweh]

A sign that he's a real professional for me.

 

You're saying Alonso played well last season in spite of Benitez??

[INTORRESTING]

"Matey Mourinho" has one of the best records" of any manager of the past 5 years - its a pointless argument to be honest.

 

why didn't his matey tactics get him past horrible Rafa then? Maybe Rafa would have fared better with the Chelsea money. I am not saying i am right but it is something to take on board is it not?

[WhiskeyJar]

This is ridiculous hyperbole and what turns reasoned debate into utter bullshit. Kenny Dalglish is the best signing this club ever made... in every way - why would you say Benitez? You might have just said it off the cuff but why? Why the need to go that far?

 

You took it that far by claiming that you would have sacked him.

 

Got on my tits to be honest because that statement overlooked all the good that Rafa Benitez had ever done for our club. Are you that naive?

 

I never, ever mentioned Kenny Daglish, your way of twisting around what I am trying to say.