Lucas - the new scapegoat.

[King Emlyn]

Not sure then, like others I might be lost trying to work things out with him. It could be because Rafa has told him that his main thing is to stay back though, but he can go forward if he feels it's the right time to do so, and he just doesn't have the confidence yet.

 

 

 

Is this meant at me? And if so, can you explain what you mean please? (I'm a bit drunk, but even if sober I'm sure that'd be confusing.)

No it wasn't, i've not really noticed your posts tbh.

[Red Phoenix]

No it wasn't, i've not really noticed your posts tbh.

 

haha, ok. Thought I was gonna have to try and explain something then and I'm a bit worse for wear.

[Vincent Vega]

He's nothing special from what we've seen so far, but most people on here seem to exaggerate exactly how bad he is. He's started less than 20 games for us, arrived in this country from tropical Brazil where the game is played without the carthorses of the English PL kicking several shades of shite out of everything that moves, and hasn't disgraced himself in any game he's played for us.

 

Considering how sparingly he is being used, I fail to see why everyone seems to have got themselves so worked up about him. If he can play a part in winning games against some of the lesser teams whilst we rest our better players, then he is fulfilling the role that Rafa had in mind when bringing him in.

 

I think he's had some good games for us since he arrived, notably the league game against Arsenal at the Emirates last season.

[Pureblood]

Lucas - the new old scapegoat.

 

 

Sometimes there are genuine scapegoats. Going from my experience on TLW I thought Dirk Kuyt fell in to that category during last season and it made me want to support the guy through thick and thin.

With Lucas I feel it's different. He hasn't played enough games to be a scapegoat, I just think some people don't rate him like Brownie, King Emlyn and so on.

I don't think he's a bad player. I like his discipline and in my opinion he has very good vision and the ability to use it. The downside is he gets shrugged off the ball too easily and hasn't shown much of the attacking side of his game. I don't really mind that as I think he's been instructed to play purely as a holding midfielder for the most part. He hasn't let us down in that respect.

I can see why people think he's a waste of money and a place in the squad, but I'm prepared to give him time as there's plenty of potential there and he looks like he wants to learn and improve.

 

This guy talks a lot of sense.

 

I'm a cynic, but I'm pretty sure that if Mascherano didn't do sliding tackles he'd get as much stick as Lucas.

Lucas' problem is that he doesn't meet expectations. Peoples expectations for him are based on how THEY think he should play not on how Rafa tells him to play. Even if Lucas did everything Rafa asked him 100% perfectly he'd still get stick because I get the impression a lot of people would rather he was running all over the place trying to win the game on his own.

Until he matures to the point where he is given the Xabi / SG role you will see a Mascherano type player without sliding tackles. Get used to it and set your expectations accordingly.

 

And so does this dude.

[Bjornebye]

Scapegoat for what? we are 2nd in the league for fuck sake

 

Nothing wrong with people highlighting his position as one for improvement/enforcement 

 

Unless you are TK421 in which case anything negative about Lucas is deemed to be blasphemy. 

 

Just go round and bum him, get it out of your system. 

[Pidge]

Looks to me like Torres training with the ressies, and the first team training as normal.

Rafa had the right idea...

[stringvest]

You both talk shite TK. Lucas still hasn't evolved into the player you thought he would do, even after a generation in footballing terms, and Lucas will not be a Gerrard or Alonso type player while he has a hole in his arse.

 

We all get stuff wrong, it's not an exact science, but bringing this thread back was a schoolboy error.

 

[Ne Moe Imya]

The thing with Lucas is that he's bang on "above average," a decent player who will never be anything special but who will consistently give you at least a mediocre game.  A 6.5 out of 10, to put it numerically.

 

When our team was good, in 2008, he was the weak spot and as such was easy to identify as a position to improve.  When our team was shit, in 2011, he won player of the season.  He himself had not changed, but suddenly surrounded by Konchesky and Poulsen he looked, in a relative sense, like Redondo.  

 

Now that we're on our way back to good again, it's easy to look at him and say that we need to improve.  Which we do, if we want to get back in the CL spots, but it's hardly Lucas' fault that he is Lucas.  He seems to work hard, he's a likable enough bloke, and he comes across as someone who cares about the shirt.  He's just not good enough for a team trying to reach the very top level, though that's no fault of his own.  I like him and hope he stays as a squad player, but I have to admit I hope he doesn't see the pitch that much in the long-term.

[stringvest]

Despite me moaning about him, I like him. He would definitely be a useful squad player in a very good team.

 

[Pureblood]

Scapegoat.

[Bjornebye]

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

You both talk shite TK. Lucas still hasn't evolved into the player you thought he would do, even after a generation in footballing terms, and Lucas will not be a Gerrard or Alonso type player while he has a hole in his arse. We all get stuff wrong, it's not an exact science, but bringing this thread back was a schoolboy error.

Highlighting an error so to speak.

[stringvest]

Indeed.

 

[Pureblood]

Some goats are bigger than others.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Can't stand Big Goats. Too much hate.

[Bjornebye]

[Gnasher]

Its not a case of scapegoats, its a case of the midfield needing strengthening.

 

We've played three good ish teams this season, the mancs, swansea and Southampton, our midfield got dicked in two of them. Swansea and southhampton are unlikely to be challenging for a top four spot this season.

 

Would anyone swap the arsenal midfield of Ozil,, Ramsey, Wiltshire, Arteta, Flamini with ours? I would.

[Guest LFD]

I don't think we have many poor players in our squad.  We might have some players better than others, but generally we have very few weak players or flops.

 

Let's remember before FSG took over we had a squad which included Degen, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Ngog, Koncheksy, J. Cole etc.  I would call all of those players, poor players as when they were in our side we were worse and there weren't good enough for a top Premiership side.

 

But I look at our first XI and bench, I see hardly any poor players.  That's why we are 2nd in the league, because the supposedly 'weaker players' who get the criticism - be it Lucas or Enrique or Henderson or Allen etc - are all good players, at times they put in very good performances.

 

Lucas is a good holding midfielder.  He might not be as good as Hamann or Mascherano, but that doesn't mean he is not effective or a good player, the other two were two of the best defensive midfielders in the world when they were here.  Our record is much better when Lucas is in the side, he's our best ball winner and he is good in possession - better than Mascherano for example, as he keeps the ball and has a better passing range.

 

Are there better defensive midfielders than Lucas around?  Yes.

 

Is he a weak link in this Liverpool team? No, he is the best defensive midfielder we have in the squad, we get more points per game when Lucas is in the team, we did under Dalglish, we do under Rodgers.  He's not flashy, he's not the most athletic, but his positioning is very good, he is good in the air, he keeps the ball, he breaks up play and he makes us a better team.

 

It is a team game and people always want an XI full of great players, it hardly ever happens. If we had a Ray Houghton now he'd probably get stick from some of our fans, I see Arbeloa gets stick from some Real fans - again two players who are effective, not the stars in the side but they contribute to winning teams.

 

Lucas will never be the star, but he's effective and he has contributed to us being 2nd / joint top in the league.

[Bjornebye]

Its not a case of scapegoats, its a case of the midfield needing strengthening.

 

We've played three good ish teams this season, the mancs, swansea and Southampton, our midfield got dicked in two of them. Swansea and southhampton are unlikely to be challenging for a top four spot this season.

 

Would anyone swap the arsenal midfield of Ozil,, Ramsey, Wiltshire, Arteta, Flamini with ours? I would.

 

 

Not Flamini I wouldn't no. The others aren't defensive midfielders. 

[Bjornebye]

I don't think we have many poor players in our squad.  We might have some players better than others, but generally we have very few weak players or flops.

 

Let's remember before FSG took over we had a squad which included Degen, Jovanovic, Poulsen, Ngog, Koncheksy, J. Cole etc.  I would call all of those players, poor players as when they were in our side we were worse and there weren't good enough for a top Premiership side.

 

But I look at our first XI and bench, I see hardly any poor players.  That's why we are 2nd in the league, because the supposedly 'weaker players' who get the criticism - be it Lucas or Enrique or Henderson or Allen etc - are all good players, at times they put in very good performances.

 

Lucas is a good holding midfielder.  He might not be as good as Hamann or Mascherano, but that doesn't mean he is not effective or a good player, the other two were two of the best defensive midfielders in the world when they were here.  Our record is much better when Lucas is in the side, he's our best ball winner and he is good in possession - better than Mascherano for example, as he keeps the ball and has a better passing range.

 

Are there better defensive midfielders than Lucas around?  Yes.

 

Is he a weak link in this Liverpool team? No, he is the best defensive midfielder we have in the squad, we get more points per game when Lucas is in the team, we did under Dalglish, we do under Rodgers.  He's not flashy, he's not the most athletic, but his positioning is very good, he is good in the air, he keeps the ball, he breaks up play and he makes us a better team.

 

It is a team game and people always want an XI full of great players, it hardly ever happens. If we had a Ray Houghton now he'd probably get stick from some of our fans, I see Arbeloa gets stick from some Real fans - again two players who are effective, not the stars in the side but they contribute to winning teams.

 

Lucas will never be the star, but he's effective and he has contributed to us being 2nd / joint top in the league.

 

 

He is the only defensive midfielder we have in the squad. 

[Guest LFD]

He is the only defensive midfielder we have in the squad. 

 

Yep.

[Bjornebye]

Thats why he is the best. 

 

Like me saying i've got the biggest dick in my house. I live with 2 girls and a Rabbit. 

[Guest LFD]

Thats why he is the best. 

 

Like me saying i've got the biggest dick in my house. I live with 2 girls and a Rabbit. 

 

He's also a good player, that's the point - he is improves our team because he is the best and only DM we have in the squad.

 

He's also very consistent.  However if we win he doesn't get praise, but if we lose he is usually one of the first players who is blamed, regardless of how he played.  

[Bjornebye]

Not many people have blamed him on here mate? I think people just see room to make us even better and his position is one that could do with an upgrade!

 

No-ones saying he is shit, just that we could do with a better option (or at least another option) 

[TheHowieLama]

Not Flamini I wouldn't no. The others aren't defensive midfielders. 

 

Ramsey plays deep - so does Arteta. In their system they are both holding mids.