EDUARDO MACIA: "It's all about the right mentality"

[Paul]

There is evidence to the contrary. Look at Lee Sharpe and Ryan Giggs and how Ferguson curbed their off the field activities.

 

I don't honestly see how you can make a judgement on how much freedom ferguson affords the mavericks, as you say, with any real accuracy. And on the opposite side of the coin, say that Rafa mistrusts players.

 

There was a story of how Grobbelaar signed for Liverpool. Paisley said 'Do you want to play for Liverpool?' and Bruce said 'Yes'. Paisley said 'That'll do for me'.

 

Robbie Fowler almost didn't bother reading the contract when he re-signed, he was so eager to join. That's the mentality I understand Macia is talking about. It's got nothing to do with whether a player is a grafter or not. Its' whether they have it in them to give their all for the good of the team. It seems to be the case that Quaresma was asked 'Do you want to play for Liverpool' and his answer was 'Yes, within certain conditions'. Thats' not right for the club.

 

Sharpe and Giggs prove my point about Fergie exactly - he changes tack depending upon the needs of the individual concerned.

 

I believe that Rafa fundamentally mistrusts players because of the previous rigidity of his tactics and instructions to players and also because of the types of players he signs. However, as I said, things appear to be changing, which is great news.

 

I'm not sure what your point is with the Paisley anecdote.

 

As for Quaresma, I've got no interest in him whatsoever and know almost nothing about him so I'm not sure why you mentioned him in response to me. However, I agree entirely with the point you make about that mooted deal.

[Rashid]

Oh good, we have Rash's yes or no fall back. The default when he doesn't want anyone to question him.

 

Did Torres express himself any less than any player in those sides Rash?

 

The team isn't allowed to express themselves like other teams are, even Torres is asked to defend corners as are the other forwards. If you can't see that then end of discussion.

[Best Believe It]

Also - with reference to the use of the word 'risk'; I think we need to be more expressive and have players who can do the unpredictable (I mean good unpredictable stuff here) but I still can't get my head round the idea that taking more risks on and off the pitch is guaranteed to bring us closer to the title.

 

More risks = more uncertainty, surely?

[Best Believe It]

Sharpe and Giggs prove my point about Fergie exactly - he changes tack depending upon the needs of the individual concerned.

 

I believe that Rafa fundamentally mistrusts players because of the previous rigidity of his tactics and instructions to players and also becasue of the types of players he signs. However, as I said, things appear to be changing , which is great news.

 

I'm not sure what your point is with the Paisley anecdote.

 

As for Quaresma, I've got no interest in him whatsoever and know almost nothing about him so I'm not sure why you mentioned him in response to me. However, I agree entirely with the point you make about that mooted deal.

 

Was linked in to the Quaresma bit - ie that the most important thing for Paisley was the desire to play for liverpool, which didn't seem to be there in Quaresma's case.

[Rashid]

For fuck's sake Rashid, why? Why say that sort of thing - it utterly undermines any valid points you make.

 

I don't see a problem in all players having defensive responsibilities - Ian Rush is often referred to as having been our first line of defence. Mind you I guess it depends what you mean by defending as I think that was referring to him closing people down.

 

Ian Rush is known for his goals before his hard work and closing down and as a striker that's fine by me. Kuyt is known for his hard work and not his goals and for a forward that grates me.

 

As for Stratego have you read the biography on Rafa? He is obsessed with the game and it explains his thinking, he lack of risk taking, his linking of football with war - hates losing and won't take the necessary risks to win at times.

[Rashid]

A fine example of this is one of the best if not the best striker i have ever watched in Ian Rush who was the first line of defence when he played as striker by closing down the opposition defence all the time.

 

When people remember Rushie they remember near 400 goals Coop.... and he chased defenders - but he would be doing a lot more than that under Rafa. He would be defending corners and free kicks too.

[Paul]

Also - with reference to the use of the word 'risk'; I think we need to be more expressive and have players who can do the unpredictable (I mean good unpredictable stuff here) but I still can't get my head round the idea that taking more risks on and off the pitch is guaranteed to bring us closer to the title.

 

More risks = more uncertainty, surely?

 

Risk is obviously an emotive word. However, when we're up against seemingly insurmountable financial barriers, we have to do something to try and bridge the gap. Taking a punt on an unpredictable talent rather than three predictable ones is the sort of risk I'd like to have seen from Rafa over the previous four years. However, he now appears to be changing his ways slightly and selling the surplus squad players in order to sign the greater talents. Long may it continue.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Paul

[Best Believe It]

Ian Rush is known for his goals before his hard work and closing down and as a striker that's fine by me. Kuyt is known for his hard work and not his goals and for a forward that grates me.

 

As for Stratego have you read the biography on Rafa? He is obsessed with the game and it explains his thinking, he lack of risk taking, his linking of football with war - hates losing and won't take the necessary risks to win at times.

 

I've read the book but you know full well that you were having a dig by saying it, and it was needless. It's what inflames people's responses to you and overshadows, as I say, valid points that you make.

 

I take your point on Kuyt - I don't have a problem with people not rating him; I personally think if Keane comes into that three behind Torres, Kuyt should be the one to drop out.

 

I'm fairly sure Rafa isn't the only manager who hates losing.

[Rashid]

I'm fairly sure Rafa isn't the only manager who hates losing.

 

They deal with it differently, some will go gung ho, some will have their players give 100% aggression not to lose, others will try to play pretty football, some will throw a little caution to the wind - others like Rafa will defend the draw first.

[The-Sir]

They deal with it differently, some will go gung ho, some will have their players give 100% aggression not to lose, others will try to play pretty football, some will throw a little caution to the wind - others like Rafa will defend the draw first.

 

Heh.

[Best Believe It]

I think part of it is - and this may stem from Rafa and the coaching staff, I'm not making an apology here - that we don't have that kind of swagger when we're playing, the belief that we have the ability to take anyone on. We have it in Europe, but we don't have it against the best teams in the league. So I think the players we have who are more expressive, tend to play within themselves more.

[coop]

Can someone remind who were the first team to score 100 goals last season as i have forgotten.

 

I bet they were an attacking team to get that many before the gung-ho teams of Man United and Arsenal.

[Rashid]

Can someone remind who were the first team to score 100 goals last season as i have forgotten.

 

I bet they were an attacking team to get that many before the gung-ho teams of Man United and Arsenal.

 

You are sounding like Houllier Coop.

 

The debate here is about "expression" not goals. Wimbledon on 1988 scored the 3rd highest of all teams or something - there are different ways of scoring goals. Hopeful punts upfield don't leave the defence exposed and we do that more than most top teams.

 

I don't think Rafa is a long ball manager, but he is overly cautious and that shows in how we approach games. Torres, Gerrard etc would be even better of the rest of the team were as supportive in attack.

[coop]

Hopefully Rash this season they will be more supportive as the signing of two attacking full backs would suggest they will be.

[Cardie]

The team isn't allowed to express themselves like other teams are, even Torres is asked to defend corners as are the other forwards. If you can't see that then end of discussion.

 

you can keep ignoring it then going back to repeating the corners nonsense over and over of you want rash but I'm going to ask again anyway. How many goals did ronaldo score or set up direct from an opponents corner last season?

 

I assume from your fascination it was a high number, it must have been to justify your rabid repetition of the point.

[Rashid]

Hopefully Rash this season they will be more supportive as the signing of two attacking full backs would suggest they will be.

 

True that Coop - but if the attacking full backs are to be a "key" part of our play then I'd have wanted him to buy better quality, especially at right back.

[StevieH]

I think we are a bit too cautious away from homes on occassions & that is why we dropped too many points on our travels. We dropped points at home due to lacking a cutting edge and our inability to kill off teams, but away from home we were far too negative at places like West Ham, Blackburn, Portsmouth, Man City, Middlesbrough etc. We seem to approach some away games with the attitude of not getting beat 1st which won't help turn draws into defeats.

[Paul]

How many times have you sen Degen play, Rash? I agree that it doesn't seem the most inspiring of signings, but let's actually watch the lad play in Red shirt first, eh?

[StevieH]

We haven't got the money to buy a better quality right back like Daniel Alves or Jose Boswinga who have both moved this summer in addition to spending £18m on Keane.

[hamstrung]

Could have been a decent debate.....

[JohnnyH]

To be fair to Macia Guillem did say he was trying to bring Silva to the club but Rafa obviously prefers someone like Downing.

 

You're a fucking arsehole. You sit there with your constant digs at Rafa and with nothing good to say about anything. You're a fucking sore on the arsehole of the football community. A mix of Paul Merson, Tim Lovejoy and Charlie Nicholas, i.e. you're a steaming pile of dribbly shite that knows fuck all about football, or about anything I'd wager. A tit. And not a nice sexy pert tit; a horrible old saggy sun-leathered, sore-leaking. granny drooping useless tit that should be lanced. Just fuck off. For every post of yours people read that actually become dumber so you would be doing the world a service if you finally fucked yourself out of that window you referred to in a moment that gave the rest of the forum such hope. Fucking cockanus.

[Maldini]

Cardie you are deluded if you think Rafa allows his players too be as expressive say as Barca, Man United or Arsenal players are. Which is the point everyone is trying to make entirely. The handling of Ronaldo by Fergie would be entirely different to that of Rafa not least because Ronaldo has no defensive duties at United.

 

Secondly onto the point of signings, even last summer Rafa chose to buy Benayoun, Babel and Lucas for the price of a Quaresma - he has to take responsibility for his signings and he has spent shit loads with it. The revisionism is doing nobody any favours.

 

It is about risk, and Rafa doesn't like risk, the sooner he realises he needs to do that on the pitch and off it the sooner we can challenge for the league.

 

Champions league final he decided to play Harry Kewell in the hole in a formation we'd never played before. Then at half-time he went 3-5-2, later he put his captain and best player right-back.

 

Fucking hates risks does Rafa!

[Zippy]

Champions league final he decided to play Harry Kewell in the hole in a formation we'd never played before. Then at half-time he went 3-5-2, later he put his captain and best player right-back.

 

Fucking hates risks does Rafa!

 

Great example that illustrates that Rafa like most top managers is ultimately a pragmatist - he will change his tactics based on what he believes gives him the best chance of winning. Ironically it was the defensive style that got us to the final and the attacking style that almost saw us throw it away. Sometimes I wish we were more attacking in certain games but I must admit when I saw that team sheet I thought we were too gung ho but understood the reasoning behind it.

 

Ferguson has this ultra attacking reputation which to be fair is largely deserved but as he has shown several times against us he will change to a more defensive style if he feels he has more chance of winning that way e.g. 96 FA Cup Final. Wenger is the same as seen by his run to the Champions League final where his team was often defensive.

 

IMO the best teams have the balance between attack and defence and that is what Rafa is trying to achieve. Unfortunately it is harder for us as we can't buy £20 - £30 million pound centre halves or £16 million pund full backs etc.

 

Despite this Rafa has built a spine that can match and possibly exceed any IMO. If the full backs give us a significant boost in terms of quality width and Keane gives us a significant increase in creativity then we have a chance (admittedly small due to the standard of opposition) of being champions.

[t1971]

You're a fucking arsehole. You sit there with your constant digs at Rafa and with nothing good to say about anything. You're a fucking sore on the arsehole of the football community. A mix of Paul Merson, Tim Lovejoy and Charlie Nicholas, i.e. you're a steaming pile of dribbly shite that knows fuck all about football, or about anything I'd wager. A tit. And not a nice sexy pert tit; a horrible old saggy sun-leathered, sore-leaking. granny drooping useless tit that should be lanced. Just fuck off. For every post of yours people read that actually become dumber so you would be doing the world a service if you finally fucked yourself out of that window you referred to in a moment that gave the rest of the forum such hope. Fucking cockanus.

 

:thumbsup: Like it. Rep coming.

[Guest LFD]

I think Rash has a point regarding Benitez being too cautious at times. It’s one of the reasons we’re so tough to play in Europe as one of our strengths under Benitez is our organisation as a team. In the Premiership though I think this approach has cost us points in the past. Last season we only lost four games, which sounds great but we finished eleven points behind the leaders. This just highlights that despite being tough to beat and organized, we got too many draws which probably cost us more than anything last season.

 

I don’t however think we’re a defensive side, we’re an organised one. At home I think we’re one of the best teams to watch in the league. We control games with lots of possession, play wide, score lots of goals and have a great balance to the team. Away from home we do not look as attractive, but then again I don’t think any sides do in the league, Arsenal and Man U apart.

 

Benitez has said in the past that he wants to see the club be more pro active. He was talking about beating our rivals to signings, probably a dig at Parry and the owners. I think Benitez at times maybe should take some of his own advice and look to being more pro active on the pitch. That’s not saying we’re defensive or necessarily cautious. I would just like to see us play with a higher tempo and urgency in the Premiership week in, week out. Sometimes last season we waiting until seventy minutes before we really looked like we wanted to win the game and we left it too late. Right from the off I’d like to see us be pro active and go out with the intention to attack and win the game, in a well balanced approach between defense and attack.

 

The best example last season was against Chelsea at home. Benitez didn’t look to see how Chelsea would line up, he played what he thought was our best chance to win the game. A 4-4-2, Pennant wide right, Gerrard and Alonso in centre midfield. It was pro active and Chelsea couldn’t cope with us and they were even changing their system to cope with ours. This should be our approach more, play our team that we think will give us the best chance of winning the game and let the opposition worry about us, rather than the other way round. Certainly against the poorer teams this should be our approach, as with our team we should know that if we play well, we win.

 

You have to win this league. That means going out with the intention to win the game right from the off. Last season I don’t think we did this, as United and Arsenal did and it cost us with too many draws occurring.