Workplace bullying

[Paul]

Anyone ever seen it, been a victim of it or even participated in it? Nasty stuff. Check this out:

 

City worker bullied by 'mean and spiteful' colleagues wins £817,000

 

Clare Dyer, legal editor

Wednesday August 2, 2006

The Guardian

 

 

A City bank administrator who was subjected to what a judge described as "a deliberate and concerted campaign of bullying" by four women colleagues won £817,000 damages yesterday over the treatment she endured.

High court judge Mr Justice Owen ruled that Deutsche Bank Group Services (UK) Ltd was responsible for the two nervous breakdowns and the major depressive disorder Helen Green suffered as a result of a "relentless campaign of mean and spiteful behaviour designed to cause her distress".

 

Ms Green, 36, who worked as a company secretary assistant between October 1997 and October 2001, was on the lower rungs of what could have become a highly paid career as a company secretary, the officer responsible for making sure a limited company's records and documentation are in order.

But her illness forced her to abandon her City career. She now works for a London charity and plans to start postgraduate studies towards a PhD in organisational behaviour next month, with the aim of a lecturer's job in about five years.

 

Witnesses described the bullying as "slow, systematic mental abuse" and "extreme bitchiness and mob culture".

 

During the court hearing Ms Green said she was "stonewalled" from day one but then the behaviour escalated. She was "blanked" and one of the women joked that she could smell a "stink" and held her nose. She also blew raspberries when Ms Green walked across the room.

 

Another colleague, who had ignored her until then, crossed her arms in a very dramatic way and stared at her while she washed her hands in the ladies' washroom. Ms Green said she had to lock work away in her drawer at night to keep it from going missing. Her name was removed from the firm's global intranet directory and from departmental circulation lists.

 

Ms Green alleged she was targeted for "mobbing" by four women: Valerie Alexander, manager of the insurance division; Ms Alexander's personal assistant, Fiona Gregg; telephone directory administrator Daniella Dolbear; and Jenny Dixon, PA to department head, Richard Elliston.

 

She denied that she had done anything to justify the behaviour or that she had "talked down" to the women.

 

Her woes were compounded by a male colleague, Stuart Preston, whom the judge ruled had also bullied her. He was "aggressively competitive towards her" and treated her in a "dismissive and hostile manner". He deliberately set out to undermine her in what he saw as "Darwinian survival of the fittest", said the judge.

 

He accepted her evidence that before Mr Preston had started bullying her, he had told her he had met Ms Taylor and Ms Dixon on the staircase and heard one say to the other: "God, did you see her face? We nearly got her crying this time," and the other one replied: "Good - who does she think she is?"

 

After the ruling, Ms Green said: "This is the end of a long and painful battle. Instead of acknowledging the problem, the bank added to my anguish by conducting this litigation in an unnecessarily obstructive and hostile manner.

 

"In fighting my case I have become more aware of what a big problem bullying is for the City. Not only does Deutsche Bank have to put its house in order, but all City businesses will have to do more than pay lip service to this hidden menace."

 

To succeed in stress at work claims, employees have to prove that bosses knew or ought to have known that their workplace treatment could cause a psychiatric illness. Ms Green won her case on that count, but she also succeeded in an additional argument that the bullying amounted to harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act, brought in to deter stalkers.

 

Bullying claims became easier to win when the House of Lords ruled last month that employers were vicariously liable under the act for bullying by employees in the course of their work, even if management was unaware of it.

 

Ms Green, of Tower Hamlets, east London, was twice promoted but in November 2000 she had her first nervous breakdown and was admitted to hospital on suicide watch. She returned to work in March 2001, when her salary was increased to £45,000 with a bonus of £15,000. But she suffered a second breakdown the following October and never went back. Her employment was terminated in October 2003.

 

Mr Justice Owen said bullying in the department was a longstanding problem to which other employees had fallen victim. Other women gave evidence in court that they had been subjected to similar treatment in the department. But the bank's management was "weak and ineffectual", said the judge. "The managers collectively closed their eyes to what was going on, no doubt in the hope that the problem would go away."

 

But for her co-workers' treatment, said the judge, Ms Green would have continued to work as a company secretary in the City and had lost a demanding but highly rewarding lifetime career.

 

The bank must also pay interest on the £817,000 and legal costs, with extra costs because it did not respond to an offer from Ms Green to settle the case for £210,000.

 

Deutsche Bank was refused permission to appeal but can still apply to the court of appeal direct. A spokeswoman for the bank said: "Deutsche Bank respects the judgment of the court."

[Section_31]

Not seen it in an overt manner, but worked in an office full of women once and they really can be nasty ba*stards, always whispering about each other when one goes to make the tea. Women are like polarised magnets, they naturally repel each other. Women don't like other people, Fact.

[Michael Howard]

This should be in the lottery thread shouldn't it??!! For a woman with chronic depression she was hiding it well on telly yesterday.

 

Legs blown off on the tube and never work again - maximum £500K award from Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority.

 

Obviously weak and vulnerable woman tipped over the edge by unpleasant nasty behaviour at work and gets £800K even though she hopes to be a lecturer in 5 years.

 

kin ridiculous.

[Remmie]

Only seen cliques really, no bullying. I guess some people never grow out of it from school

[Stouffer]

Makes me laugh, they all bitch about each other and then are nice as pie to their faces.

[Paul]

This should be in the lottery thread shouldn't it??!! For a woman with chronic depression she was hiding it well on telly yesterday.

 

Legs blown off on the tube and never work again - maximum £500K award from Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority.

 

Obviously weak and vulnerable woman tipped over the edge by unpleasant nasty behaviour at work and gets £800K even though she hopes to be a lecturer in 5 years.

 

kin ridiculous.

The fact that one is fucked up doesn't mean the other is. She was on suicide watch at one point, and could have had a six-figure salary if her career had panned out. Bullying is fucking horrible.

[Michael Howard]

The fact that one is fucked up doesn't mean the other is. She was on suicide watch at one point, and could have had a six-figure salary if her career had panned out. Bullying is fucking horrible.

 

Bullying is horrible. But it exists and it is never going to go away. If it happens to you then you have to deal with it and take some responsibility for yourself.

 

None of us know the detailed ins and outs of exactly what this case was about. My problem with the award is that when you look at in the context of other victims and what they get it is ridiculous.

 

If your colleagues are nasty vindicative spiteful bitches then you do something about it. You at least make proper efforts to complain about it - to your employer or even the police (if it is harassment). Or you say fuck this and move jobs. Take some responsibility for your own life. There is too much pandering victim culture in this country - and we all pay for it through tax and insurance premiums.

 

Granted she had a nervous breakdown about it - but reading the supposedly worst things they did to her - called her smelly and took her name off a memo ! and as far as i can see she just cried silently in her booth till she went off the edge and didn't complain. Her employers paid for counselling for her when she came back but she then went off again and never returned.

 

£800K for her is a joke.

 

She is just lucky that she had her breakdown when she did as her disappointment at not winnning the lottery the following Saturday might have sent her into terminal decline if it had coincided with her spilling some milk. get a grip luv.

[Dirk]

 

She is just lucky that she had her breakdown when she did as her disappointment at not winnning the lottery the following Saturday might have sent her into terminal decline if it had coincided with her spilling some milk. get a grip luv.

 

 

Fuck off. Sorry but that's not even remotely funny.

[Michael Howard]

Fuck off. Sorry but that's not even remotely funny.

 

 

I think even Helen Green could smirk at that as she sits at home counting the looty.

[Slam Daniels]

 

I think even Helen Green could smirk at that as she sits at home counting the looty.

 

By posting this picture, I gather that you would then?

[Michael Howard]

By posting this picture, I gather that you would then?

 

"So tell me Michael what first attracted you to the emotionally fragile former city worker with £800K in the bank . . . . ?"

 

A sort of Jessie Wallace with less make up and more money.

[Paul]

Bullying is horrible. But it exists and it is never going to go away. If it happens to you then you have to deal with it and take some responsibility for yourself.

 

None of us know the detailed ins and outs of exactly what this case was about. My problem with the award is that when you look at in the context of other victims and what they get it is ridiculous.

 

If your colleagues are nasty vindicative spiteful bitches then you do something about it. You at least make proper efforts to complain about it - to your employer or even the police (if it is harassment). Or you say fuck this and move jobs. Take some responsibility for your own life. There is too much pandering victim culture in this country - and we all pay for it through tax and insurance premiums.

 

Granted she had a nervous breakdown about it - but reading the supposedly worst things they did to her - called her smelly and took her name off a memo ! and as far as i can see she just cried silently in her booth till she went off the edge and didn't complain. Her employers paid for counselling for her when she came back but she then went off again and never returned.

 

£800K for her is a joke.

 

She is just lucky that she had her breakdown when she did as her disappointment at not winnning the lottery the following Saturday might have sent her into terminal decline if it had coincided with her spilling some milk. get a grip luv.

Did you read the article or my post? I agree that the compo for other victims is appalling, but this isn't government compensation; it's from her former employer. Also, she did try and do something about it. Eventually she had to sue her company for not addressing the issue properly after she went through the correct channels. And as for a smile five years later - what does that prove other than she's received a bit of justice?

 

Depression is not just about feeling a bit down, you know. Mental illness is a terrible curse for those who suffer from it - made all the worse by people saying stuff like "Get a grip, luv". If she'd had a medical illness that threatened her life, would you be saying the same thing?

 

Your main gripe appears to be the size of the settlement. Why shouldn't she be compensated for all those years of ill health and a career in tatters? The company themselves fucked up with their ridiculous decision not to settle for a quarter of the eventual amount - which they've now conceded not to contest.

 

As for what constitutes bullying, I've had to deal with suicide attempts by 16 year olds over being ostracised. Literally nothing is said to them. Does that mean their distress is nonsense? Of course it doesn't. How do you take responsibility for the behaviour of others? It's like saying you're responsible for being mugged.

[bri]

M Howard your original point was a fair one about the compensation awarded to the tube victim and the comparison to this case. However you got lost in trying to justify it. So what if the woman got 800K good on her. What is ridiculous is that there is no consistancy in the monetry value given out.

[Dirk]

Depression is not just about feeling a bit down, you know. Mental illness is a terrible curse for those who suffer from it - made all the worse by people saying stuff like "Get a grip, luv". If she'd had a medical illness that threatened her life, would you be saying the same thing?

 

 

I agree with all of the other points you were making but depression is a medical illness. I know what you mean, though, a non-mental based illness.

[Guest TK-421]

By posting this picture, I gather that you would then?

 

I would and she could pay for her own cab home.

[Paul]

I agree with all of the other points you were making but depression is a medical illness. I know what you mean, though, a non-mental based illness.

I was trying to distinguish between the two without knowing the correct terminology. I could have just said cancer, I suppose.

[Dirk]

I was trying to distinguish between the two without knowing the correct terminology. I could have just said cancer, I suppose.

 

 

I use that same example. The majority of people are clueless when it comes to mental illness. The press don't help either. Take for instance when a schizophrenic kills people, the headlines usually say 'Psycho goes on knife spree' but schizophrenia is something completely different to psychopathy. I'm not excusing schizophrenic knife wielders, btw, but factually incorrect media coverage does do a lot of damage. Discrimination against the mentally ill is as pernicious and probably as widespread, if not more so, in modern British society as racism.

[Original202]

 

What a funny little nose.

 

Never seen any bullying at work, but whenever I've heard about it in the news or from friends workplaces, it's always women who are the bullies. Not sure if it's just bitchiness gone too far or real bullying, but it never seems to be blokes.

 

My Mum was a teacher at a school with no male staff (Apart from the Caretaker) and whenever she spoke to someone from school on the phone or they came round for coffee it was constant bitching.

[Guest Jay W]

The only place I or my mate has never seen bullying is the Army funny enough, considering the publics view is totaly opposite...

 

My cousin suffered a bit of it bit nothing major, she just changed her job. I hate bullies with a passion and I always aske the same...Why? What's do people get out of making people suffer? Strange people...

[Slam Daniels]

What a funny little nose.

 

Bully!

[Original202]

My cousin suffered a bit of it bit nothing major, she just changed her job. I hate bullies with a passion and I always aske the same...Why? What's do people get out of making people suffer? Strange people...

 

There'll be people who know more about physchology on here than me (Probably people who can spell it properly too) but I always thought it was about making yourself feel better by diverting negative attention to others?

 

For example, if you were insecure about how you looked and didn't want people to notice you, you might pick on someone else for being fat (Or for having a funny nose!), that way the attention is on them. You also might feel better by seeing that other people aren't perfect either.

 

Something like that I think. I don't know. I can't see that people would ever really enjoy it though.

[Original202]

Bully!

 

Are you bullying me for being a bully?

[Michael Howard]

Some of my gripes are about the specifics in this case - many are more general about the victim / claim culture that exists today.

 

1. Bullying is nasty and bad. It should not happen.

 

2. But it is unrealistic to expect any organisation to eradicate it completely (school or workplace).

 

3. If the victim does not report it (which i think was the case here - until she had her breakdown) - how is that the school or workplace's fault - that then entitles the victim to huge sums of money?

 

4. Where is the responsibility on the victim to do something about it herself? Complain, report it to employer/police - and pursue that complaint with the same determination she has managed to muster for her bonanza claim. (the thread about car vandalism was interesting in the way different people would deal with a bad situation - do something though - don't just let is ruin your life ffs).

 

5. She has got £600k (of total £800K) for future loss of earnings - that is a mega amount - yet she is studying for Phd and is planning to be a lecturer - hardly a life in tatters - think of the holidays !!!!

 

6. Will she stage a remarkable recovery now the case is over I wonder?

 

7. Was the effect the bullying had on her to be expected? I doubt it. My quip about the split milk was saying that for her to have such an adverse reaction to it implies there must have been underlying issues that made her more likely to have breakdown - if it wasn’t this then it would have been a relationship problem or whatever that tipped her over the edge sooner rather than later? (Her employer seems to have defended the case on this basis so there must have been something in it - but the judge wasn't persuaded).

 

8. Of course mental illness exists – and it can be just as serious as Paul’s non mental illness !! – but I wonder how many people off work because of stress / anxiety / depression would still be off if they didn’t work for a big employer with generous sick pay policies??

 

shit happens in life - but we as a society increasingly expect there to be someone to blame - usually a public authority or an employer with deep pockets or insurance? It is we that pay for it by our taxes and insurance premiums.

[Michael Howard]

 

I've had to deal with suicide attempts by 16 year olds over being ostracised. Literally nothing is said to them. Does that mean their distress is nonsense? Of course it doesn't. How do you take responsibility for the behaviour of others? It's like saying you're responsible for being mugged.

 

My point about taking responsibility arises in the context of blame. Is your school any more culpable for that 16 year olds problems than Deutsche Bank? (as i understand it she didn't report it before her breakdown but the judge decided that they ought to have had procedures to find out :no

[Guest nushka]

Not seen it in an overt manner, but worked in an office full of women once and they really can be nasty ba*stards, always whispering about each other when one goes to make the tea. Women are like polarised magnets, they naturally repel each other. Women don't like other people, Fact.

 

 

So very true. The lab I worked in was 80% women. It was so frosty some days you could ice skate over the floor. Women hold grudges. Very well.