General Election 2019

[General Dryness]

17 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

There's a bunch of stupid and ignorant fucktards all over the country and we're about to go through 5 more years of austerity that'll lead to a lot of death and suffering, along with us now sliding towards fascism in a similar way to the US, and stupid cunts like John Mann going on about cracking down on left wing media in the first 24 hours of a new gov. Don't call people gammon though.

Don't be a prick.

[skend04]

The fence sitting came back to bite Corbyn on his arse like everyone said it would but I have to chuckle at this narrative of Labour voters lending Boris their vote to get Brexit done. I mean it's akin to lending your kids to Jimmy Savile knowing he'd finger them but not caring because it gets Brexit done, or some other nonsensical notion.

[Red Phoenix]

51 minutes ago, General Dryness said:

Don't be a prick.

The reality of 5 more years of austerity + 5 years of white nationalists thinking they own the country has made me act like a bit of a prick admitted. Hasn't been the easiest thing to accept though when we've already suffered almost a decade of these Tory cunts and they're so much worse this time.

 

For the time being I'll keep some hope that they won't last those 5 years due to defections and/or corruption because they're so fucking stupid.

[General Dryness]

21 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

The reality of 5 more years of austerity + 5 years of white nationalists thinking they own the country has made me act like a bit of a prick admitted. Hasn't been the easiest thing to accept though when we've already suffered almost a decade of these Tory cunts and they're so much worse this time.

 

For the time being I'll keep some hope that they won't last those 5 years due to defections and/or corruption because they're so fucking stupid.

Fair play lad, shouldn't be so snappy myself.

[A Red]

Calling tory voters thick, stupid, racist, cunts, uncaring etc whilst pushing socialist policies will not make Labour electable. How many hammerings/losses in elections have to take place before Labour realise this? The more they move to the left the less likely they are to win. 

 

I do feel for the posters on here that feel genuinely upset about the result. I would say that if a new leader is elected that vows to spend more on services and those in need but tries to keep taxation low there is a very good chance of getting back in. That is then the time perhaps to slowly introduce things like railway nationalisation, prove that it will work. Slowly, slowly catch...whatever the saying is.

 

What the fuck do I know, its just an opinion

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, A Red said:

Calling tory voters thick, stupid, racist, cunts, uncaring etc whilst pushing socialist policies will not make Labour electable. How many hammerings/losses in elections have to take place before Labour realise this? The more they move to the left the less likely they are to win. 

 

I do feel for the posters on here that feel genuinely upset about the result. I would say that if a new leader is elected that vows to spend more on services and those in need but tries to keep taxation low there is a very good chance of getting back in. That is then the time perhaps to slowly introduce things like railway nationalisation, prove that it will work. Slowly, slowly catch...whatever the saying is.

 

What the fuck do I know, its just an opinion

Telling people to fuck off out of the party if they didn’t agree 100% with everything Corbyn proposed, hounding out and ridiculing’centrists’ then moaning when they left and voted for someone else is mad.  A 4 page thread ridiculing Swinson but justifying JC staying on. It’s crazy. 

[Anubis]

1 hour ago, skend04 said:

The fence sitting came back to bite Corbyn on his arse like everyone said it would but I have to chuckle at this narrative of Labour voters lending Boris their vote to get Brexit done. I mean it's akin to lending your kids to Jimmy Savile knowing he'd finger them but not caring because it gets Brexit done, or some other nonsensical notion.

Whereas your master plan of coming out for a remain would have lost even more seats where The Brexit Party would have disappeared up the Tories backside. Another FBPE bullshitter.

[ZonkoVille77]

Tory voters are predominantly racist. 

Neg away.

[Anubis]

1 minute ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

Tory voters are predominantly racist. 

Neg away.

You should have used the word Gammon and GD would oblige.

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think until there's better competition for the the sun and the daily mail, even sky news then the masses will vote how their told. Sky news captioned this entire election as the brexit election it was still a binary vote of leave or remain for many. The sun and Mail especially the mail online totally influenced peoples thoughts on individuals and policy.

 

The mails online site is actually a brilliant design, all the celebrity shite and internet funnies to attract them in,  right along side the big headlines plus leaving every single article open to comment creating a social media echo chamber of hate and nationalism. 

[A Red]

16 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

Tory voters are predominantly racist. 

Neg away.

You, like me, are just a gobshite on the internet. If it makes you feel better to say that then crack on.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

5 hours ago, arthur friedenreich said:

The future of the UK is likely to look a Fuckload  worse than Thatcherism. No money from North Sea oil to prop the economy, drive down of wages and the loss of further jobs through automation, recession is pretty much guaranteed.
there needs to be a rethink for how a modern 21st century economy looks after its people, and the UK just fucked off their

best option of doing that.

 

That is what's hard to swallow for a lot of people in the UK. In most cases a large group of people are always going to be more productive/helpful/ than a single person or a small group. The EU may not be perfect, nothing is, so good luck to the UK trying to find a trading Bloc that will bow down to your personal wishes and arrogance of self entitlement based on what the UK achieved in the past. The past won't help in this modern era where it is of upmost importance to work with others to fuel the economy of your country.

If the current deal is squared off then it won't benefit those who need it. A no deal scenario would be fucking bonkers. Trying to start off from scratch when you have little to offer bar the service industry in the big scheme of things is extremely naive, especially when you are putting all your eggs in the USA basket when it is clear they'll only make deals on their terms. So leaving one huge trading bloc where you are a main partner with a lot of advantages that go with that membership, to scratching around for deals and becoming the US bitch until you can get any deals. Plus most major blocks have a lot of pull with certain countries/other blocs and can make any future deal extremely long winded and hard to land. 

Then this is all to be overseen by a Gov't that has proved time and time again that they are incompetent and just full of bluster, but this time with Carte Blanche on their folly. Of course, they are all wealthy and will survive no matter how things transpire, the future of those who voted them in is what is at stake. They work in 5 year cycles and couldn't give a shit about the long term future. Plenty to be worried about, especially if you're not a jack bastard and have your children and future generations interests at heart. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

I wonder if the EU will revisit their idea of offering British people the chance to individually opt-in and remain EU citizens as a proposal in Brexit negotiations. It would be one way of pissing off the Government, who would do everything in their power to stop it, but if it was part of any negotiations their hands would be tied. Imagine the amount of people who would take up this option and in doing so plan their escape to pastures new. 

[aRdja]

2 hours ago, skend04 said:

The fence sitting came back to bite Corbyn on his arse like everyone said it would but I have to chuckle at this narrative of Labour voters lending Boris their vote to get Brexit done. I mean it's akin to lending your kids to Jimmy Savile knowing he'd finger them but not caring because it gets Brexit done, or some other nonsensical notion.

Entertaining Remain killed Labour, not just fence sitting IMO

[Bobby Hundreds]

So depressing that blatant lies and cowardice won the day. A man who blatantly avoided accountability and pretty much held the electorate in utter contempt became the big winner. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

1 minute ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

So depressing that blatant lies and cowardice won the day. A man who blatantly avoided accountability and pretty much held the electorate in utter contempt became the big winner. 

 

He ran away after the Brexit campaign and only revisited it again to feather his own nest. I think there's a strong possibility he'll make a complete tit of himself during his tenure as PM and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him fail to see it out. Not that this would be any good for your country on a whole. 

[Dr Nowt]

Plenty to criticise Labour about, but this binary stuff about whether they should have gone full Leave or Remain is just daft.

 

You’re going to struggle to find a Lib Dem supporter who votes Leave, there will probably be one somewhere as there are always anomalies and contrarians who make you shake your head, but for obvious reasons Lib Dems didn’t have to worry about keeping both sides happy; if you support the Lib Dems, then their whole ethos means you’re a natural Remainer.

 

Less cut and dried within the Tories, but far more able to humour their Leave voter base - who are certainly in the majority among their support - and set themselves as the party of that side of the argument nationally.

 

If any one of the major parties perfectly typified the 52/48 split within the overall country, it’s Labour. It’s not for no reason you had Swinson and co claiming Corbyn was betraying Remain voters and Johnson/Farage and co claiming he was betraying Leave voters, on different channels at the same time day after day during this election.

 

If Labour had come out unambiguously for either side during the campaign they would have lost the other immediately, perhaps forever. That’s just arithmetic for you. You had people saying “They’re only following this fence-sitting approach to try and keep both sides happy to get their votes”. No shit. And Mo only shoots because he wants to score more goals. 

As it happens, on top of that, attempting to be less divisive and include the whole of the country in their reckoning - with a mind to how we somehow have less division nationally after Brexit is eventually resolved in circa 2038 - wasn’t an irresponsible thing to do. Someone needed to. Brexit wrecked Labour, among other complex and less complex factors of course, but it was always going to once that genie was let out of the bottle, because whichever way they went on it they would inevitably shed voters they may very well never get back.

 

I get they may still not, but they were in an impossible situation trying to reconcile two groups within their base with such diverse positions on this issue. Critiquing how the party reacted to and chose to try and mitigate that fact is missing the point, in my opinion. 
 

As is the complete astonishment that people who are traditional Labour could ever vote for the Tories. It’s like the endless Lib Dems are Tories tedium. It’s more nuanced than that. Economically closer than they are to Labour, yes. But setting aside the obvious economic differences separating them from Tories, socially, for many traditional Labour voters traditional is the operative word...there’s a small c convervatism within certain attitudes and world views of many I’ve known down the years which generally isn’t there among the Lib Dems, particularly on law and order, race and immigration, drug policy, etc.
 

For example, rubble rouser said the other day that Capital Punishment will be the big cultural signifier of the next election, and there’s a shrewdness in that shout. Very much some and not all, but some of those who voted Leave among the Labour support are the comments below online newspaper articles on legs. They co-exist within the party with a totally different group of people typified by those voting Labour across big cities and metropolitan areas who have a totally different worldview. Labour truly is a board church, and straddling both sides of their supporter base on this issue was never, ever going to make “Just come out Leave” a simple vote-winning solution in sufficient numbers.
 

Quite apart from whether that would have even morally been the correct thing to do in the first place, for the party, for the country and for the whole populace.

[Jennings]

Still a bit shocked that good working class folk from places like Blyth Valley sold their principles down the river and prioritised Brexit over the NHS, working conditions and education.

[Bobby Hundreds]

An interesting point on the last leg was made that it was better that Johnson got a big majority rather than a small majority as now he can not be held to ransom by those with more extreme views in his party like the ERG and the time traveling twat. The only problem with that is if his views are the extreme ones. The idea being that he may push towards more central ground in the hope of keeping their new voters and more traditional conservatives.

[Denny Crane]

2 hours ago, A Red said:

Calling tory voters thick, stupid, racist, cunts, uncaring etc whilst pushing socialist policies will not make Labour electable. How many hammerings/losses in elections have to take place before Labour realise this? The more they move to the left the less likely they are to win. 

 

I do feel for the posters on here that feel genuinely upset about the result. I would say that if a new leader is elected that vows to spend more on services and those in need but tries to keep taxation low there is a very good chance of getting back in. That is then the time perhaps to slowly introduce things like railway nationalisation, prove that it will work. Slowly, slowly catch...whatever the saying is.

 

What the fuck do I know, its just an opinion

 

People voted for the party who promised to leave the single market and the customs union said party who won the election with a huge majority provided limited costings of the future. Not sure how you can make a case for voters pursuing fiscal prudence as the conclusion of this election. 

 

Spending more on public services and keeping taxation low... Low being vague itself. If any Labour leader said that they would be asked to identify where the money was coming from.

 

 

[clockspeed]

Listening to Peter Gabriel  (Dont give up) written during the carnage of the mid eighties hope Boris/Brexit or any combination of the two don’t take us back there. Some of the youngsters on here don’t know how bad it got. Exiting from this thread now.

[Gnasher]

A ray of light amongst the doom, a whopping 57% of under 45s voted labour, highest percentage on record. The over 45s gave the Tories victory.

 

If I was a nurse I'd let every old cunt who needed treatment in hospital suffer wiith no painkillers or assistance, fuck em.

[magicrat]

1 hour ago, clockspeed said:

Listening to Peter Gabriel  (Dont give up) written during the carnage of the mid eighties hope Boris/Brexit or any combination of the two don’t take us back there. Some of the youngsters on here don’t know how bad it got. Exiting from this thread now.

I left Liverpool in the mid eighties as it was wasteland. The only thing keeping alive were the two football clubs. 

[Trumo]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If I was a nurse I'd let every old cunt who needed treatment in hospital suffer wiith no painkillers or assistance, fuck em.

 

They might be resigned to doing that anyway.

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

Plenty to criticise Labour about, but this binary stuff about whether they should have gone full Leave or Remain is just daft.

 

You’re going to struggle to find a Lib Dem supporter who votes Leave, there will probably be one somewhere as there are always anomalies and contrarians who make you shake your head, but for obvious reasons Lib Dems didn’t have to worry about keeping both sides happy; if you support the Lib Dems, then their whole ethos means you’re a natural Remainer.

 

Less cut and dried within the Tories, but far more able to humour their Leave voter base - who are certainly in the majority among their support - and set themselves as the party of that side of the argument nationally.

 

If any one of the major parties perfectly typified the 52/48 split within the overall country, it’s Labour. It’s not for no reason you had Swinson and co claiming Corbyn was betraying Remain voters and Johnson/Farage and co claiming he was betraying Leave voters, on different channels at the same time day after day during this election.

 

If Labour had come out unambiguously for either side during the campaign they would have lost the other immediately, perhaps forever. That’s just arithmetic for you. You had people saying “They’re only following this fence-sitting approach to try and keep both sides happy to get their votes”. No shit. And Mo only shoots because he wants to score more goals. 

As it happens, on top of that, attempting to be less divisive and include the whole of the country in their reckoning - with a mind to how we somehow have less division nationally after Brexit is eventually resolved in circa 2038 - wasn’t an irresponsible thing to do. Someone needed to. Brexit wrecked Labour, among other complex and less complex factors of course, but it was always going to once that genie was let out of the bottle, because whichever way they went on it they would inevitably shed voters they may very well never get back.

 

I get they may still not, but they were in an impossible situation trying to reconcile two groups within their base with such diverse positions on this issue. Critiquing how the party reacted to and chose to try and mitigate that fact is missing the point, in my opinion. 
 

As is the complete astonishment that people who are traditional Labour could ever vote for the Tories. It’s like the endless Lib Dems are Tories tedium. It’s more nuanced than that. Economically closer than they are to Labour, yes. But setting aside the obvious economic differences separating them from Tories, socially, for many traditional Labour voters traditional is the operative word...there’s a small c convervatism within certain attitudes and world views of many I’ve known down the years which generally isn’t there among the Lib Dems, particularly on law and order, race and immigration, drug policy, etc.
 

For example, rubble rouser said the other day that Capital Punishment will be the big cultural signifier of the next election, and there’s a shrewdness in that shout. Very much some and not all, but some of those who voted Leave among the Labour support are the comments below online newspaper articles on legs. They co-exist within the party with a totally different group of people typified by those voting Labour across big cities and metropolitan areas who have a totally different worldview. Labour truly is a board church, and straddling both sides of their supporter base on this issue was never, ever going to make “Just come out Leave” a simple vote-winning solution in sufficient numbers.
 

Quite apart from whether that would have even morally been the correct thing to do in the first place, for the party, for the country and for the whole populace.

There are also global trends (at least in the West) the UK is not isolated from nor immune to, where "traditional" working class is increasingly moving towards right wing populism whilst the left is increasingly representative of younger, educated, basically middle class with working class identity.  As the centre is melting, first reaction isn't moving to the left, but ushering in Trump, La Liga in Italy, now Johnson in the UK and all the other new leaders and fast growing new parties around the world,

 

On Brexit, it was a seriously crippling factor for Labour  but for me, the better option would have been, if you must, promise a second referendum with leave - remain choice again, but this time with a strict time frame of 3 or 6 months for leaving with a deal or no deal, if it's leave again and as a concession to leavers who won the first time around.  You could at least defend this as democratic, since it has been almost four years and people may have changed their mind (I don't think they have). Having a deal already announced as a very soft Brexit versus remain on the ballot pushed all leavers away immediately.