Transgender stuff - what's going on?

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

On 02/07/2019 at 16:36, Rico1304 said:

Live and let live as far as I’m concerned. But care needs to be taken that kids, lesbians and vulnerable people aren’t swept aside.  

You’ve missed out women there, no matter what age or sexual preference, their rights are being undermined by people ascribing to gender fluidity, which to be frank is fucking bollocks.

im all for live and let live, trans people should be fully supported, but fellas who chose to wear a dress some days should not be ousting natal females from their own organisations or organisations setup to support them.

equality doesn’t mean everyone’s rights are shared, it means equal rights for all, this means equal representation, not shared representation, which allows men to once again control women’s rights.

 

its fucking ludicrous.

[Jose Jones]

2 minutes ago, arthur friedenreich said:

You’ve missed out women there, no matter what age or sexual preference, their rights are being undermined by people ascribing to gender fluidity, which to be frank is fucking bollocks.

im all for live and let live, trans people should be fully supported, but fellas who chose to wear a dress some days should not be ousting natal females from their own organisations or organisations setup to support them.

equality doesn’t mean everyone’s rights are shared, it means equal rights for all, this means equal representation, not shared representation, which allows men to once again control women’s rights.

 

its fucking ludicrous.

What particularly are you talking about here Arthur?  

[Rico1304]

This is crazy. Feel for the 2nd and 3rd places.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 05/07/2019 at 07:29, arthur friedenreich said:

fellas who chose to wear a dress some days should not be ousting natal females from their own organisations or organisations setup to support them.

 

Does this happen?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 10/03/2019 at 20:54, Aventus said:

 

 

 

Some cunt being a cunt. If I remember correctly, some twat tried a similar trick in the Labour Party and was promptly hoofed out.

 

Does anyone actually recognise that "record" for lifting?

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Do you even lift, Sis?

[Rico1304]

This woman was a lifter before transitioning. In the women’s category she’s immediately far superior. The previous best lifter was forced to change weight division as she knew she’d never be able to compete. 

[Duff Man]

What would you do, Rico?

[Rico1304]

24 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

What would you do, Rico?

It’s fucking difficult but as I understand it the men’s comps are ‘open competition’ so trans athletes could enter (in the M to F transition). 

 

I bet in the WWC next time there’s a team with 3 or 4 trans players and they’ll win.  Prize money equality will make it very attractive for men trying to play the system.  

 

De-transitioning is already quite common, and what can you do? 

[Duff Man]

If they were on hormones they wouldn't stand a chance of winning. Do you disagree with IOC's current rules?

[Section_31]

One of the things that does my head in about this type of thing is that you can't have a debate without walking on eggshells or coming under attack.

 

"Sharon Davies just said men shouldn't be allowed to swim in women's races - the Internet responded!"

 

As I said earlier up the thread, there's probably a core of people impacted by this who have struggled mentally with it and if they can get some sort of peace by going through the process then great. 

 

But as with many things these days it's been hijacked by people who equate appearing to be liberal with intelligence, and like to use it to appear somehow intellectually of morally superior when in actual fact, beyond the realms of Twitter of hipster beer garden chat, they don't give a toss either way.

[Captain Howdy]

17 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

One of the things that does my head in about this type of thing is that you can't have a debate without walking on eggshells or coming under attack.

This is so true of just about everything these days

[Pureblood]

15 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

This is so true of just about everything these days

Is it fuck!!!

[Rico1304]

It’s one of those situations where there’s unlikely  to be a right answer.  Some people are going to be upset whichever way it’s decided. Just seems inherently unfair that women who’ve trained and competed for years could be obsolete in their own sport. 

 

The weightlifting example; she was lifting as a man and so musculature etc will give her a huge advantage even if she’s on hormones.  

 

As as an aside there was a Kiss concert and a trans event in Manchester last night.  Piccadilly station was a sight to behold.  

[Duff Man]

12 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It’s one of those situations where there’s unlikely  to be a right answer.  Some people are going to be upset whichever way it’s decided. Just seems inherently unfair that women who’ve trained and competed for years could be obsolete in their own sport.  

 

The weightlifting example; she was lifting as a man and so musculature etc will give her a huge advantage even if she’s on hormones.  

 

As as an aside there was a Kiss concert and a trans event in Manchester last night.  Piccadilly station was a sight to behold.  

But there's barely any chance of that happening, is there? Male to female trans athletes have been competing in top level sport for over 40 years, and are yet to take over.

 

There's a perception that women's sport is being, or going to be, dominated by these people because of an unfair athletic advantage, but from what I can tell that's not even close to the reality.

 

Even in this case, despite the fact that she won, those lifts aren't actually that extraordinary for the weight class. For example, in the last world champs it wouldn't even have got her on the podium.

[Rico1304]

‘Despite the fact she won’ that’s cold comfort for the 2nd 3rd and 4th. 

 

Agree its not a crisis yet - but it’s early days in terms of strength of movement.  As ever chancers, cheats and cunts will ruin it for the rest. 

 

For example, Russia had a state sponsored doping  programme. Could they be trusted not to exploit this? 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

It’s one of those situations where there’s unlikely  to be a right answer.  Some people are going to be upset whichever way it’s decided. Just seems inherently unfair that women who’ve trained and competed for years could be obsolete in their own sport. 

 

The weightlifting example; she was lifting as a man and so musculature etc will give her a huge advantage even if she’s on hormones.  

 

As as an aside there was a Kiss concert and a trans event in Manchester last night.  Piccadilly station was a sight to behold.  

Who did you cop off with? Tell me it wasn't Stig again.

[Duff Man]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

‘Despite the fact she won’ that’s cold comfort for the 2nd 3rd and 4th. 

 

Agree its not a crisis yet - but it’s early days in terms of strength of movement.  As ever chancers, cheats and cunts will ruin it for the rest. 

 

For example, Russia had a state sponsored doping  programme. Could they be trusted not to exploit this? 

 

Are you happy to let them compete or not? If you are, you have to accept that sometimes they'll win. If they start winning by absurd margins, that would be a cause for concern, but there's no indication that that'll happen.

 

Re Russia, not really sure what you mean? They'll find ways of spoofing the hormone treatment?

[Rico1304]

8 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Are you happy to let them compete or not? If you are, you have to accept that sometimes they'll win. If they start winning by absurd margins, that would be a cause for concern, but there's no indication that that'll happen.

 

Re Russia, not really sure what you mean? They'll find ways of spoofing the hormone treatment?

I really don’t know. It’s fucking hard. 

 

Whilst numbers are low and they aren’t skewing results then seems harsh. Similarly having a separate category whilst numbers are low is useless. Women’s sport is getting so much more focus and exposure and maintaining that is so important. 

 

Edit: on Russia bad actors will game the system to win at all costs. 

[Duff Man]

1 minute ago, Rico1304 said:

I really don’t know. It’s fucking hard. 

 

Whilst numbers are low and they aren’t skewing results then seems harsh. Similarly having a separate category whilst numbers are low is useless. Women’s sport is getting so much more focus and exposure and maintaining that is so important. 

Yeah, totally agree, but I genuinely don't think having an inclusive approach to trans athletes will jeapordise that. The IOC guidelines seem to have the balance right, for me.

[Bjornebye]

30 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Who did you cop off with? Tell me it wasn't Stig again.

It was. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Yeah, totally agree, but I genuinely don't think having an inclusive approach to trans athletes will jeapordise that. The IOC guidelines seem to have the balance right, for me.

What’s the tl;dr of the IOC guidelines? 

[Red_or_Dead]

Seems to me that only blokes are concerned about ex-blokes entering female competitions and winning them.

[Duff Man]

21 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

What’s the tl;dr of the IOC guidelines? 

Hormone treatment. Their testosterone levels must be below a certain amount for at least 12 months. It completely fucks them up, mainly through muscle atrophy.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Red_or_Dead said:

Seems to me that only blokes are concerned about ex-blokes entering female competitions and winning them.

That’s absolutely not true. Maybe on this thread, but not in the wider discourse. 

3 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Hormone treatment. Their testosterone levels must be below a certain amount for at least 12 months. It completely fucks them up, mainly through muscle atrophy.

Hmn... I guess I’d have to look into it, as I’ve no idea of the actual impact, but I think having people who were born (and, biologically remain) male competing against females is a bad idea. Especially in combat sports.