Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Anubis]

I could live with that as long as Angela Rayner doesn't lose her place as Education Sec and we don't get that fucking awful Heidi Alexander back, particularly at Health.

[Jairzinho]

Hope Milne goes back to The Guardian to try and readdress the balance there a bit.

[clangers]

Hope Milne goes back to The Guardian to try and readdress the balance there a bit.

He's apparently going to dish the dirt which will help... Both sides in full machiavellian mode as far as I'm concerned. No chance of a truce. No political party can go to the electorate in such a divided state and hope to achieve anything other than a hammering.

[sir roger]

I could live with that as long as Angela Rayner doesn't lose her place as Education Sec and we don't get that fucking awful Heidi Alexander back, particularly at Health.

 

This is a big worry of mine, some of the less experienced people who had to help out have proved to be really capable performers and do not deserve to be just pushed aside now the PLP wants back in. I am sure Corbyn will be well on top of this in discussions & this will colour the numbers the PLP get jurisdiction over. There are some guys who want out & only did the job as a help to Corbyn ( Paul Flynn etc ), and some haven't done that well ( Not a massive fan of Emily Thornberry for instance ) and some empty spaces & doubling up, so there should be some wriggle-room.

[xerxes]

Hope Milne goes back to The Guardian to try and readdress the balance there a bit.

 

Seumas Milne is an obvious choice for the next England manager. He gets to go to Russia, and could wear a " I love Stalin "T shirt under his England top

[sir roger]

He's apparently going to dish the dirt which will help... Both sides in full machiavellian mode as far as I'm concerned. No chance of a truce. No political party can go to the electorate in such a divided state and hope to achieve anything other than a hammering.

 

It's certainly a worry . Clangers, but I suppose it depends to an extent when the election actually happens.

 

If Theresa May calls an early one it will be a big issue, but will also be offset a bit by the fact that the Tories have major issues that have not had any major light shed on them at this point , whereas if it goes to 2020 a lot of this could be distant memories by then if the party shape up over the next 6/12 months.

[Anubis]

This is a big worry of mine, some of the less experienced people who had to help out have proved to be really capable performers and do not deserve to be just pushed aside now the PLP wants back in. I am sure Corbyn will be well on top of this in discussions & this will colour the numbers the PLP get jurisdiction over. There are some guys who want out & only did the job as a help to Corbyn ( Paul Flynn etc ), and some haven't done that well ( Not a massive fan of Emily Thornberry for instance ) and some empty spaces & doubling up, so there should be some wriggle-room.

Agree with you about Thornberry. I think there are some top jobs he could comfortably offer out. Foreign Sec, Home Office and Justice for instance. While she's neither been spectacular, nor done anything wrong, Abbott is a devisive figure so if there was a better option on Health there might be room for negotiation.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Emily Thornberry is useless as far as I'm concerned she never seems informed or up to date. At the absolute least I expect politicians to learn their jobs or be honest enough to say they don't know and why they don't know. She tries to fudge it and digs even deeper.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Seumas Milne is an obvious choice for the next England manager. He gets to go to Russia, and could wear a " I love Stalin "T shirt under his tank top

Fixed it.

[Stickman]

Whatever the right think of Corbyn he's good for business

 

Veteran MP Dennis Skinner says Corbyn surge has saved Labour's finances and he could win an election

 

Labour's conference is a tale of two tribes - with rebel MPs rallying in a pub while Jeremy Corbyn mulls another leadership victory.

So here's one man who's standing resolutely by his leader - veteran MP Dennis Skinner.

We caught the outspoken Beast of Bolsover drawing a spontaneous crowd as he called for unity at the party's venue in Liverpool.

A thoroughfare got blocked by onlookers yesterday as the 84-year-old MP held forth on Mr Corbyn, "Dodgy Dave" and "Tedious Theresa".

And he pointed out a mostly-missed line from general secretary Iain McNicol - that Labour is now debt-free thanks to a surge in membership, largely attributed to Mr Corbyn.

 

"That £25m has now been wiped out," he said. "Why? Because of the membership and because of all these people who have joined.

"They have wiped out a £25m debt. We are the only political party in Britain, maybe Europe, that has got a surplus.

"It's incredible and it's time that the people in the PLP who are Blairites or whatever they call them, who are members of Progress and financed by [donor Lord] Sainsbury.

"It's time they understood that Jeremy is here to stay, he's got the biggest majority of anybody since the second world war.

"Get behind him. Tedious Theresa is worse than Dodgy Dave!

"Taking that election next time will be a relatively easy exercise for a Labour Party that's united.

"People here are united. Why can't they be in the Parliamentary Labour Party ?"

Earlier general secretary Mr McNicol opened the conference by saying times had been "tough".

However, he presented a report to conference showing Labour recorded a £4.3m surplus last year.

"Historic debts totalled almost £25m in 2006," he said.

"But after years of living with that burden, I am delighted to report that at the end of last year we repaid the remainder.

"Becoming debt free coincided with a surge in membership. The money the new members will add to our funds helps put the Party in its strongest financial position for generations. 

"We have paid back the loans, we have paid off our debt to the banks.  The Labour Party is debt free."

 

[VladimirIlyich]

Whatever the right think of Corbyn he's good for business

 

Veteran MP Dennis Skinner says Corbyn surge has saved Labour's finances and he could win an election

 

Labour's conference is a tale of two tribes - with rebel MPs rallying in a pub while Jeremy Corbyn mulls another leadership victory.

So here's one man who's standing resolutely by his leader - veteran MP Dennis Skinner.

We caught the outspoken Beast of Bolsover drawing a spontaneous crowd as he called for unity at the party's venue in Liverpool.

A thoroughfare got blocked by onlookers yesterday as the 84-year-old MP held forth on Mr Corbyn, "Dodgy Dave" and "Tedious Theresa".

And he pointed out a mostly-missed line from general secretary Iain McNicol - that Labour is now debt-free thanks to a surge in membership, largely attributed to Mr Corbyn.

"That £25m has now been wiped out," he said. "Why? Because of the membership and because of all these people who have joined.

"They have wiped out a £25m debt. We are the only political party in Britain, maybe Europe, that has got a surplus.

"It's incredible and it's time that the people in the PLP who are Blairites or whatever they call them, who are members of Progress and financed by [donor Lord] Sainsbury.

"It's time they understood that Jeremy is here to stay, he's got the biggest majority of anybody since the second world war.

"Get behind him. Tedious Theresa is worse than Dodgy Dave!

"Taking that election next time will be a relatively easy exercise for a Labour Party that's united.

"People here are united. Why can't they be in the Parliamentary Labour Party ?"

Earlier general secretary Mr McNicol opened the conference by saying times had been "tough".

However, he presented a report to conference showing Labour recorded a £4.3m surplus last year.

"Historic debts totalled almost £25m in 2006," he said.

"But after years of living with that burden, I am delighted to report that at the end of last year we repaid the remainder.

"Becoming debt free coincided with a surge in membership. The money the new members will add to our funds helps put the Party in its strongest financial position for generations.

"We have paid back the loans, we have paid off our debt to the banks. The Labour Party is debt free."

 

Lets hope a debt free party means not being in hock to the big business donors and getting back to serving who it is supposed to.

Had to laugh at Dennis calling Sainsbury,simply 'Sainsbury' and the author hastily adding 'donor' and 'lord' before his reference in the speech.

[Denny Crane]

Two minutes in Corbyn referencing Hillsborough then mentioning Orgreave in his speech.

[xerxes]

Bendy Burnham stepping down from the Shadow Cabinet to focus on Manchester.

 

You couldn't make it up.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Corbyn once again saying that abuse and (real) anti-Semitism is not acceptable.

 

He must be getting tired of saying it now, despite the identically worded claims/fallacy that he's not doing enough to tackle it.

[cloggypop]

He just used the Shanks quote.

[Denny Crane]

 

 

He just used the Shanks quote.

Just before the comment don't leave Andy Burnham I know you are an everton fan.

[xerxes]

Rumour doing the rounds that Andy Burnham didn't mean to resign mid speech and that his autocue was tampered with...

[moof]

Rumour doing the rounds that Andy Burnham didn't mean to resign mid speech and that his autocue was tampered with...

Eh?

[Jairzinho]

Clive Lewis speech inspired joke.

 

That's the last one I'm explaining for you though, xerxes. From now on you're going to have to make them funny enough that people recognise them as jokes.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Good speech, probably the best delivery I've seen from him.

 

Bit surprised by the emphasis on borrowing at one point though. Given the extra exposure, I'd have assumed they'd have dressed that up a little.

[Bjornebye]

Used a shankly quote there. He needs to fuck labour off and start his own party. You know an actual socialist one not diluted with fake lefties and cunts.

[Denny Crane]

 

Goodbye New Labour: Victorious Corbyn consigns Blairism to history

 

By routing his opponents and breaking the neoliberal consensus, Corbyn has the strongest mandate of any opposition leader since Tony Blair

 

According to the British media class, the last week has been an unmitigated disaster for Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn.

 

Don’t believe a word of it.

 

According to the received version of events, Jeremy Corbyn leads a split party, has zero chance of winning the next election, and is driven by a demented political ideology which will take Britain back to the worst days of the 1970s.

 

As a Tory, I don't share many of Corbyn's political beliefs, but I am certain that most of what is written about the Labour leader is false.

 

 

The truth is that Corbyn has had an outstanding week which has vindicated everything he has ever done and said as a man and a politician – a point that the Labour leader drove home in his superb leader’s speech from Liverpool this afternoon.

 

The achievement is colossal, and Corbyn is still growing into his job. This week has won a massive endorsement from Labour Party members – and on a scale which would leave most politicians open mouthed with envy.

 

More significant still, it is the second endorsement he has secured from Labour Party members in just 12 months.

 

This means that Corbyn is now unchallengeable as Labour leader. He has not simply defeated his opponents. He has routed them. He therefore has the strongest mandate of any opposition leader since Tony Blair in 1994.

 

The hard way

 

Unlike Tony Blair, Corbyn has to do it the hard way. He has achieved his triumph in the face of hostility from a deeply unfair and partisan British media, much of which is openly determined to destroy him and distort his actions.

 

He has been forced to pay a very high price for challenging conventional opinion.

 

But in the space of barely a year, he has reinvented Labour as a political party, taking Labour Party membership from 200,000 in the wake of the 2015 election, to more than 500,000 today.

 

He has done this by reinventing public discourse itself. He has abandoned the discredited politics of spin and manipulation associated both with Peter Mandelson and Tony Blair’s New Labour and David Cameron’s Tories. Corbyn is not by any means a great orator, but he speaks in the simple, intelligible language of ordinary people.

 

I've been a political journalist for nearly 25 years and there is no question that Jeremy Corbyn should be celebrated for ushering in this new kind of politics.

 

Breaking the old model

 

As he explicitly set out in his hugely important speech this afternoon, Corbyn has broken from the consensus politics of the last quarter of a century. From the rise of Tony Blair in 1994 until the general election of 2015, there was – to use Corbyn’s potent phrase from Liverpool today – a "political stitch up" between the main political parties.

 

There was an unspoken agreement between Tories and Labour that they would only work within very constrained parameters. The Cameron Conservative Party and the Blairite Labour Party both advocated near identical spending and taxation targets. They both supported the marketisation of the public sector. They both agreed the same neoliberal economic model.

 

In foreign policy terms, both main parties accepted British subordination to the United States of America, and therefore a neoconservative doctrine of armed intervention in order to advance the interests of the West in the Middle East and elsewhere.

 

Nobody can claim that these twin doctrines - neoliberalism at home and neoconservatism abroad - were successful. They led to debacles in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, as well as the banking crash of 2008. But anyone who challenged these two orthodoxies was politically marginalised.

 

This afternoon, Corbyn became the first leader of a mainstream political party to directly challenge this paradigm, with his assertion that "the old model is broken and we’re in a new era". Corbyn deserves almost unlimited credit for offering an alternative.

 

Support, leave - or conspire?

 

Corbyn's triumph does, however, create a real difficulty for his many opponents inside the Labour parliamentary party. They have been overwhelmingly defeated not just once, but twice.

 

It is time that they acknowledged that they have been beaten. There are two honourable ways that they can do this. They must either come out and support Jeremy Corbyn as he tries to implement the settled, democratic will of the Labour Party. That means taking front bench jobs and supporting the leadership as it sets out its distinctive vision for the future of Britain or - at the very least - supporting Corbyn loyally from the back-benches.

 

Alternatively, they should leave the party altogether. This would be a painful course of action - but entirely honourable. The Blairites are completely at liberty to set up their own political organisation, just as Shirley Williams and David Owen set up the Social Democratic Party in despair of what they saw as the far-left wing taking over the Labour Party in the 1980s. They can then test their popularity with the electorate.

 

The third course of action is to continue to behave as they have over the last 12 months, and to carry on conspiring against and undermining Corbyn. That would be deeply dishonourable and wrong, but on past performance entirely in character.

 

There are some intriguing parallels between the disloyalty of Blairite Labour MPs towards Corbyn and the attitude of the Egyptian deep state towards President Mohamed Morsi after he was elected president in free democratic elections in 2012.

 

The Egyptian Army and intelligence services, the business elite and the Nasserite left simply refused to recognise the legitimacy of multiple elections and would not enable Morsi to govern. They had their way, but the democratic transition was set back years in the process.

 

So far, that has been the approach of Hilary Benn, Tom Watson, Ben Bradshaw and the other Labour wreckers and saboteurs. They are refusing to accept that Corbyn has a democratic mandate and, as a result, are determined to destroy him from within.

 

Corbyn has earned his chance. He proved with his fine speech this afternoon that he has a vision. Labour MPs should now give him his chance to prove that he can reshape a new kind of British politics. God knows that it is badly needed. Even as a Tory, for the health of the British political system, I wish him all the luck in the world.

 

- Peter Oborne was named freelance writer of the year 2016 by the Online Media Awards for his reporting for Middle East Eye. With MEE colleague Nawal Al-Maghafi, he is among the few correspondents to have ventured into war-torn Yemen in recent months.

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/according-british-media-class-last-week-has-been-unmitigated-disaster-labour-lead-1488108898

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Bendy Burnham stepping down from the Shadow Cabinet to focus on Manchester.

 

You couldn't make it up.

Can you explain this one, Jairz, cos I've not got a balls notion what the faux surprise is supposed to mean.

[razor]

Chilling.

 

Which leader had veto over this:

[thechap]

I don't get this idea that the Labour membership and the electorate are two unconnected entities.

 

Lots of Labour people don't get it which is why they will be out of government for a long time.