Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Anny Road]

A lot of the fuck the English Scots I know are totally against independence. They know or suspect what will happen.

[stringvest]

if this goes through, we can make the playing of bagpipes in England illegal.  I vote yes.

[Vincent Vega]

Surely if they have a more generous benefits system and more generous tax regime, with better employments rights they will be flooded by economic migrants from poorer parts of the EU like northern England?

 

I saw a report on the news last night saying acceptance to the EU would be far from straightforward with Spain unlikely to make it easy due to the fact they would have worries about Catalonia and the Basque country following Scotland down the independance road.

 

I agree with Lifey though, depite all the doubts there may be, if I was up in Scotland I'd be well up for independance due mostly to the fact they keep getting Westminster governments to run them they have clearly rejected. Surely self determination is a better solution than having your country run by a posh, rich collection of southern English men you have absolutley nothing in common with and many of whom seem to despise you and your way of living.

[Chairman Meow]

Surely self determination is a better solution than having your country run by a posh, rich collection of southern English men you have absolutley nothing in common with and many of whom seem to despise you and your way of living.

 

The same could be said for large parts of the North of England.

 

If they go independent I'm already seeing opportunity here, I'm planning on becoming a shortbread and whiskey bootlegger. 

[s(k)aturation]

The same could be said for large parts of the North of England.

 

 

The same disdain can be held for people of supposedly "lower" class in a city, suburb, town, village or street.

[VladimirIlyich]

The same distain can be held for people of supposedly "lower" class in a city, suburb, town, village or street.

It is and its the Government we currently have who have these views.

[Lee909]

The Tories seem ominously quiet on the matter

Its not surprising though is it.

They can say they want the UK to stay together but they know a independent Scotland keeos the tories in permanent power down here.

[s(k)aturation]

It is and its the Government we currently have who have these views.

 

If only the Parliament were hung. Literally.

[Chairman Meow]

If only the Parliament were hung. Literally.

We can but dream.

[VladimirIlyich]

If only the Parliament were hung. Literally.

If only Mr Fawkes' plot had succeded.

[s(k)aturation]

If only Mr Fawkes' plot had succeded.

 

It was that stupid smiley mask.

Fucker couldn't see the fuse.

[Champ]

Was chatting in work last night to my B****ford supporting mate, also English, about Nigel Farage's recent visit to Edinburgh and discussion turned to our changing views on Scottish independence in the light of the direction of policy at Westminster and the implications for the north of England, as Scotland before, being governed inperpetuity by an administration it hadnt voted for.

 

My mate said he had been reading about tentative talks taking place between the large metropolitan councils in the north about setting up a northern Parliament. He couldnt remember the source of his information and I wondered whether anyone on here knew any more about it

 

 

The same could be said for large parts of the North of England.

 

If they go independent I'm already seeing opportunity here, I'm planning on becoming a shortbread and whiskey bootlegger. 

 

No-one responded to my post from earlier in the year but I would be fascinated to know if any such talks have taken place.

This is a real Pandora's box moment in our history if we vote yes

[VladimirIlyich]

No-one responded to my post from earlier in the year but I would be fascinated to know if any such talks have taken place.

This is a real Pandora's box moment in our history if we vote yes

As a poster said earlier,I'd fully endorse a regional Government system and most people outside London must be getting really pissed off with London-centric leanings of recent governments. Im sure this applies to a fair share of Southerners too.

It seems a fairer way to redistribute resources based on the needs of each specific area of the country.

Never going to be allowed to happen but we can only hope.

[Anny Road]

I know a certain sport should not be mentioned in these parts but I think it is only a matter of time before some anti independence politician raises the prospect of ruling out the two big teams ever joining the English premier league  should the nation go fully independent. Or conversely raising the limited prospect of it happening should we remain part of the UK. These a few million votes for the no campaign in a oner.

[stringvest]

not going to happen that mate.  If both clubs came into the English game in League Two, they'd never manage to get out of it

[aws]

I've no doubt that a yes vote will lead to a significantly poorer Scotland in the short term. But if they govern themselves well and deal with their problems in a way which reflects their own best interest then there's no reason why they can't recover the lost ground and go on to match some of the other successful small countries in Europe.

 

But I can't see a yes vote because most people fear a short, sharp shock more than they fear an inevitable, slow decine as a peripheral part of the most over-centralised country in Europe. 

[ElishaScottBC]

If we lived in a well functioning democratic society (ha, that's easy for me to say) then the possibility of the Yes vote is very intriguing. 

However we don't, and No is the ballot winner. Thank you please try again.

[Champ]

I've no doubt that a yes vote will lead to a significantly poorer Scotland in the short term. But if they govern themselves well and deal with their problems in a way which reflects their own best interest then there's no reason why they can't recover the lost ground and go on to match some of the other successful small countries in Europe.

 

But I can't see a yes vote because most people fear a short, sharp shock more than they fear an inevitable, slow decine as a peripheral part of the most over-centralised country in Europe. 

 

Why would that be the case? Or am I missing something?

[aws]

Why would that be the case? Or am I missing something?

Public expenditure per head is a lot higher in Scotland than the rest of the UK and Scotland does reasonably well out of the Barnett Formula. The tax shortfall will have to be met somehow - so either cuts, tax increases or more borrowing (and the interest rate will be a lot higher than the rate the UK currently borrows at). 

 

I'd vote yes (as i will if Wales ever gets the chance) but the change would be difficult and things will be worse in the short-term. No gain without pain etc. 

[Anny Road]

Expenditure per head of population is £12,100 compared to £10,800 in England true enough.

However a much overlooked stat is GDP per person in Scotland is £26,424 compared to £22,336 in England. A surplus.

[Champ]

Expenditure per head of population is £12,100 compared to £10,800 in England true enough.

However a much overlooked stat is GDP per person in Scotland is £26,424 compared to £22,336 in England. A surplus.

Did you get those stats from the beeb? They're the ones that include oil revenue, arent they, and I dont know how that will be divvied up but nonetheless I was surprised at the figures when so much has been made of a lack of a middle class.

 

I'm enjoying the debate on here and hearing the arguments from rather more objective eyes. Keep it coming

[Anny Road]

Did you get those stats from the beeb? They're the ones that include oil revenue, arent they, and I dont know how that will be divvied up but nonetheless I was surprised at the figures when so much has been made of a lack of a middle class.

 

I'm enjoying the debate on here and hearing the arguments from rather more objective eyes. Keep it coming

Yes Champ they're of the bbc site. Funny how people  often say however 'but what would the figure be without the oil' why would you calculate GDP and leave out the countries largest industry. Funny how people never ask for Englands GDP minus the City of London's financial service sector.

 

Even if you exclude oil it is only about £500 quid less than Englands.

[Champ]

Yes Champ they're of the bbc site. Funny how people  often say however 'but what would the figure be without the oil' why would you calculate GDP and leave out the countries largest industry. Funny how people never ask for Englands GDP minus the City of London's financial service sector.

 

Even if you exclude oil it is only about £500 quid less than Englands.

And, do you know, so much of the debate, if it could be called that, up to this point has been based on gut instinct without the benefit of figures. And, as I said, before you can use figures to sell almost anything.

I am also beginning to think I should be rather more suspicious that my folks are such fervent opponents, what with being further right than is healthy to admit

[Fugitive]

You have Oil

The locals are all a bit mental

You hold WMD's

You have an Opium problem

 

America will be invading you as soon as you vote yes.

[RedRazor]

Expenditure per head of population is £12,100 compared to £10,800 in England true enough.

However a much overlooked stat is GDP per person in Scotland is £26,424 compared to £22,336 in England. A surplus.

Do those GDP figures really stand up to scrutiny? Is the oil revenue included in the England and Scottish figures on a pro-rata basis or is it all loaded onto the Scottish figure? The answer will skew these numbers massively. The rest of the UK (not just England) will not just let an independent Scotland walk away with all the oil revenue without a good scrap.

 

The other big issue is EU membership. The SNP suggest it is almost a formality that Scotland will apply and be accepted. While this may be true there may well be a price to be paid such as being compelled to adopt the Euro. They would also lose any protection afforded by the rebates and opt outs that have been negotiated in the name of the UK. I'm not sure what opt outs we still have but clearly Cameron exercised a veto a year or so back. I cannot see any future other than a harsh and bleak one if Scotland tried to operate outside the EU so that really is a non-starter.