Scottish Independence, yay or nay?

[Champ]

Well duh... What I was trying to ask is if there is a clear indication that the Scottish people will be better off than they are now? I haven't been following this at all, I have no idea of the pros and cons.

Like Anny says, for the pros its not about being better or worse off, its the ability to make those choices themselves.

As for the figures, I think its a case of lies, damned lies and statistics

[mattyq]

About 5'8...and the similarities dont end there. I've heard that women go out of their way to make sure they're not left on their own with him

Ha, that explains a lot

[mattyq]

It's not something with incremental value, independence is a virtue in itself. The onus is on the person, or persons, who want to derive you of your independence to prove why they should be allowed to do that.

 

Not sure i agree with this...it's not as if Scotland is a colony.

It's an integral part of the UK and as such the Scots aren't being deprived of anything

[Chip Butty]

Give them independence, then invade, rape, pillage, kill all first borns and take everything by force and get it all for free without subsidising their infastructure(which we've just lifted).

 

 

 

They can keep Dougie Donnolly and Muriel Gray's granite fanny face, though.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Hang on a minute.. Hang on a fucking minute... is this going to effect the price of shortbread.

[mattyq]

I will be voting yes and hope we go independent. Not because I think we will be better off financially, I doubt we will, but at least our governments priorities will not be to appease a ruling class.

All politicians are twats and in an independent Scotland that won't change It will however cause a revolution in these Isle. For one Scots will have to stop blaming the English for every negative aspect of their life and will have to stand up together a sort shit out. Two I think the English regions will have had enough of London centred bullshit which has gone on far too long and that can only be good for everyone.

It will shake the shit out of the whole place, bring it on.

 

Scotland doesn't have a ruling class? I thought most of the land is owned by 20 families or something similar?

I think Salmond and his ilk will be looking forward to setting themselves up as the new lairds and i think the SNP will morph very quickly into the Tartan Tories

Welcome to your new rulers....same as the last ones

Plus he has the support and backing of Murdoch and The S*n

That tells me it's wrong straight away...have they ever supported anything good and decent in their miserable existence?

[Champ]

Not sure i agree with this...it's not as if Scotland is a colony.

It's an integral part of the UK and as such the Scots aren't being deprived of anything

Try telling the majority of them that

[Anny Road]

Scotland doesn't have a ruling class? I thought most of the land is owned by 20 families or something similar?

I think Salmond and his ilk will be looking forward to setting themselves up as the new lairds and i think the SNP will morph very quickly into the Tartan Tories

Welcome to your new rulers....same as the last ones

Plus he has the support and backing of Murdoch and The S*n

That tells me it's wrong straight away...have they ever supported anything good and decent in their miserable existence?

 

on the whole that is true but the political leanings of the huge majority would not allow a ruling elite or tory esq party remain in power

[Champ]

I read the ruling class to be the banks and big business and they will continue to have a huge influence on how things workout. I dont see old wealth having any significant influence; they have the most to lose and I dont see them having received much support from their wealthy chums in the rest of the UK so far; it is the SNP who determine the debate

[lifetime fan]

I was just answering the man's question.

 

While I strongly support the current Scottish government's social democratic credentials I remain deeply unconvinced about Scotland's ability to generate sufficient wealth and to attract and retain external businesses (see the recent ineos shenanigans) to be able to maintain its current policies and to attract and retain external businesses (see the recent ineos shenanigans)

Don't fall for that shite Cath.

 

It's perfectly possible to offer a competitive (even lower than England) corporation tax rate and still have a socially aware, more fair minded and left of centre government.

 

Look at those trying to convince you it's not possible and then ask yourself why they don't want the change...

[mattyq]

Don't fall for that shite Cath.

 

It's perfectly possible to offer a competitive (even lower than England) corporation tax rate and still have a socially aware, more fair minded and left of centre government.

 

Look at those trying to convince you it's not possible and then ask yourself why they don't want the change...

 

I don't think it is, Col.

Can't think of anywhere in the world where that happens.

The benefits have to paid for from taxation and if one of your main taxes is very low that will adversely affect your budget

The only way round that is to have high growth which brings its own problems namely inflationary pressures and if you don't control your currency then it's not good

[lifetime fan]

I don't think it is, Col.

Can't think of anywhere in the world where that happens.

The benefits have to paid for from taxation and if one of your main taxes is very low that will adversely affect your budget

The only way round that is to have high growth which brings its own problems namely inflationary pressures and if you don't control your currency then it's not good

With the right people in place it's very easily done. Getting the right people is the key. As you've already said Murdoch is in favour. Why you reckon that is? Couldn't possibly be a quick shift of profits could it?

 

Scotland are well within their rights to offer a competitive/lower corporation tax rate than England/Wales and then chose to spend it in a more equitable way alongside genuinely fair income tax revenues.

 

I've no reason to defend Salmond. I hate the pick but I'd be voting Yes all day long if I lived north of the border.

[Champ]

Don't fall for that shite Cath.

It's perfectly possible to offer a competitive (even lower than England) corporation tax rate and still have a socially aware, more fair minded and left of centre government.

Look at those trying to convince you it's not possible and then ask yourself why they don't want the change...

Its not about falling for that shite...I need facts. Where's Code when you need him?

I've been trying to dig out stats for comparison between Scottish household income and that of the rest of the UK but without much luck yet

 

Edit. BBC news has just directed me to their dedicated webpage

[mattyq]

With the right people in place it's very easily done. Getting the right people is the key. As you've already said Murdoch is in favour. Why you reckon that is? Couldn't possibly be a quick shift of profits could it?

 

Scotland are well within their rights to offer a competitive/lower corporation tax rate than England/Wales and then chose to spend it in a more equitable way alongside genuinely fair income tax revenues.

 

I've no reason to defend Salmond. I hate the pick but I'd be voting Yes all day long if I lived north of the border.

Ireland has a very low CT and has attracted a lot of corporate business because of it.

As far as i know, though, the benefits aren't very good...no NHS, you have tp pay to see a GP etc

It generally works as low tax low benefits; high tax high benefits

[lifetime fan]

Ireland has a very low CT and has attracted a lot of corporate business because of it.

As far as i know, though, the benefits aren't very good...no NHS, you have tp pay to see a GP etc

It generally works as low tax low benefits; high tax high benefits

Ireland is a poor example mate. You've basically two versions of the Tories to vote for.

[Champ]

I've no reason to defend Salmond. I hate the pick but I'd be voting Yes all day long if I lived north of the border.

So, if you support his views, why do you hate him?

[Phoenix]

Not sure Salmond's figures will add up but he is very persuasive. Shame that if Scotland does vote for independence it means tory government in the rest of the UK for a while.

 

I have a feeling that when it comes down to the crunch they won't vote for independence.

[Champ]

Not sure Salmond's figures will add up but he is very persuasive. Shame that if Scotland does vote for independence it means tory government in the rest of the UK for a while.

 

I have a feeling that when it comes down to the crunch they won't vote for independence.

Again, as Anny said, who would they have to blame then?

[Section_31]

Good luck to them I say. Be interesting to see what happens to their landed gentry, House of Lords members etc. Most of the Scottish people I've met are pretty political in the sense that they actually have some kind of view about politics, much more so than the English, why shouldn't people like that be allowed to shape their own destiny and instead have to remain ruled by this absolute shower of cunts, cunts who - quite frankly - couldn't give a shit whether they, you or I, were alive or dead.

[lifetime fan]

So, if you support his views, why do you hate him?

Where did I say I supported his views (bar independence)?

[Champ]

Where did I say I supported his views (bar independence)?

What other views does he have?

 

But my question was, why did you say you hate him?

[Kevin D]

Not sure i agree with this...it's not as if Scotland is a colony.

It's an integral part of the UK and as such the Scots aren't being deprived of anything

The Conservative party, that is the party with a plurality in the commons and whose leader sits as the current prime minister, have one sitting MP from a Scottish constituency. So, for starters, any credible representation in Parliament does not exist. Scotland may not be a colony, but David Cameron is a proconsul and hasn't an ounce of electoral legitimacy. At least the Romans told it like it was.

[Champ]

And its bugged me all along...this thread should be called Scottish Independence, aye or no

[lifetime fan]

What other views does he have?

 

But my question was, why did you say you hate him?

Lots, some I agree with, plenty I don't.

 

His views on woman golfers was the perfect example of him being a lying two faced cunt.

 

I still reckon he couldn't make a worse job of it than the counts we've got.

[mattyq]

The Conservative party, that is the party with a plurality in the commons and whose leader sits as the current prime minister, have one sitting MP from a Scottish constituency. So, for starters, any credible representation in Parliament does not exist. Scotland may not be a colony, but David Cameron is a proconsul and hasn't an ounce of electoral legitimacy. At least the Romans told it like it was.

 

And yet 17% of Scots voted Tory in the last election...the Nats got 20%

The LibDems have 11 seats and 19% of the vote so 38% of the supposedly disenfranchised Scottish electorate voted for one of the parties that form the government

The North East voted broadly in the same way

I certainly wouldn't deny that Cameron is a fucking cunt but talk of imperialist titles is just nonsense

I'd like to see a federal system set up in the Uk with 9 regions in England and Wales, Scotland and NI all having their own Assemblies.

Works ok in the US, Germany and Australia