Go fuck yourselves FSG

[dennis tooth]

I will have a look.

 

If anyone two weeks ago on here, had argued that we should loan out Reina and pay half his wages I doubt anyone would have agreed with them.

 

Now its happend, half the forum suddenly think its an ace idea?

 

Thats when you know half the people on here will accept anything but hey ho.

The exact same reasoning behind this is exactly what supported the Nazi extermination of the jews in Europe. Had they lived in that era, we know which posters would be out there rattling their empty cans of Xyklon B in the air at the sight of Mignolet in goal.

 

Mental acrobats on the trapezium as its a circus.

 

Dont get me wrong, the want it so bad, they want to be right, I want them to be right. I wanna sit here and nod in total agreement I want to be happy with whats going on. I want to have John Henry's bell end in my mouth and to know what it tastes like, what it smells like. I want to wear that kit with pride and walk round like a deluded fanboy wopper but I cant, something stops me, I dont know, I just get a feeling, maybe I should section myself, Im feeling unwell and uneasy at the thought of not being able to close my eyes like you can, to rationalise anything that happens into some sort of wider plan for success FSG and Rogers have for us. I want to do all of those things, please dont think I am being difficult by resisting the optomist concentration camp.

 

We have too much dissent, It sickens me to think we even had to create a thread that banned any negativity in case anyones views should threaten to smash our snowglobe and ruin our blind faith. The poor cunts had to do that, lest someone like myself might harbour any doubts and GOD FUCKING FORBID I SHOULD WISH TO INFLUENCE POLICY AND THE RUNNING OF LFC!

God forbid I might disagree with a load of people making decsions and voice that opinion.

[stringvest]

Protest?

 

Where have I said I would protest?

 

Shut up and start listening, watch my mouth not your imagination.

 

Secondly, the owners have stated they want to listen, they have spent millions garnering fan input on many platforms.

 

Should we close the forum then? Just have a big picture of John Henry giving the thumbs up, shut up pay our money, question nothing and buy things off our sponsors?

 

What is your problem?

 

You like dictatorship?

 

It's not my imagination Dennis, I said you should protest, as you appear to be frustrated by what you see as apathy (see your earlier post).

 

I don't have a problem about this. You know why? Because I both understand why they bought the club and I have a hunch about their strategy. I believe if they could find a buyer that would give them what they see as a decent return on their investment today, then they would sell today. I believe they are open for business. The longer the club muddles along outside the top 4, the lower the value of the asset. The crowds that we see at the game going on right now, and the other games on this tour, will not be there in 10 years time unless we are playing with the big boys. FSG won't stay around to let that happen.

 

The odd benevolent one apart, I'm not keen on dictatorships, but I do understand how businesses work. The club is keen to listen, as it's great PR, and it placates the masses.

 

Questioning and challenging the owners is absolutely the right thing to do. I don't trust any of them, or take anything on face value, which I find is a fairly healthy position to take. However, impotent ranting, while fashionable, is a bit TOWIE for my tastes. Do you actually contribute anything to the club's coffers, or is the Tooth Boycott already in place? The only contributions I make are through match tickets, the odd beer or cup of soup, and subs to the website. I can't be doing with replica shirts, as I'm a grown man. I stopped paying Murdoch anything some time ago.

 

I would never advocate closing the forum, as it's a vehicle for me to keep Usher in alice bands. He won't accept charity, as it affects his jobseekers allowance.

 

So, in summary, if you're going to agitate for change, ask yourself what it is you want. It's still not clear to me.

[bossy]

I'm imagining tooth sat at home in his bills, a vein in his head pumping like a dance bassline cackling as the skol goes down, shouting at his scared pekinese 'they are all a bunch of fucking idiots fluffy!'.

[cuppatea]

We've comfortably outspent all but 2 or 3 teams in the league since they've been here, including shattering our transfer record and eclipsing the record of clubs like Arsenal and Spurs several times on top of that. The wage cutting we've done is in moving on players whose performances on the pitch were in no way justifying the massive amounts we were paying them and I honestly can't believe anyone has a problem with that.

 

We have less income than the teams above us (even though we still outspend some of them), which means we have to spend what we have more wisely. Clearly when we were spending more than Spurs in transfer fees and wages, yet finishing miles behind them in the league (not to mention almost doubling Everton's wage bill), we had a problem with overpaying, which had to be addressed. Even in Reina's case, as great a servant as he's been to the club, if we're going to have the 3rd best paid keeper in the league on our books he has to be amongst the best performing, which clearly he hasn't been in the last few seasons (with almost every significant goalkeeping stat placing him somewhere in the bottom half). If moving him on frees up money to be better spent elsewhere then so be it,that's the kind of thing we need to do if we're going to compete with teams that have more money than we do.

 

Going down the City/Chelsea route was never on the cards with FSG, if we're going to have any success with them it'll be through following the Dortmund model of clever management, on and off the pitch. A lot will depend on what happens the rest of this summer but so far I'm quite encouraged.

[dennis tooth]

It's not my imagination Dennis, I said you should protest, as you appear to be frustrated by what you see as apathy (see your earlier post).

 

I don't have a problem about this. You know why? Because I both understand why they bought the club and I have a hunch about their strategy. I believe if they could find a buyer that would give them what they see as a decent return on their investment today, then they would sell today. I believe they are open for business. The longer the club muddles along outside the top 4, the lower the value of the asset. The crowds that we see at the game going on right now, and the other games on this tour, will not be there in 10 years time unless we are playing with the big boys. FSG won't stay around to let that happen.

 

The odd benevolent one apart, I'm not keen on dictatorships, but I do understand how businesses work. The club is keen to listen, as it's great PR, and it placates the masses.

 

Questioning and challenging the owners is absolutely the right thing to do. I don't trust any of them, or take anything on face value, which I find is a fairly healthy position to take. However, impotent ranting, while fashionable, is a bit TOWIE for my tastes. Do you actually contribute anything to the club's coffers, or is the Tooth Boycott already in place? The only contributions I make are through match tickets, the odd beer or cup of soup, and subs to the website. I can't be doing with replica shirts, as I'm a grown man. I stopped paying Murdoch anything some time ago.

 

I would never advocate closing the forum, as it's a vehicle for me to keep Usher in alice bands. He won't accept charity, as it affects his jobseekers allowance.

 

So, in summary, if you're going to agitate for change, ask yourself what it is you want. It's still not clear to me.

 

Right, try and be clear and retreive you from your tangent.

I didnt say you were apathetic, that was in relation to something San Don said.

 

Next I need more than 'your hunch' or a 'spade in the ground' to make a full judgement etc.

 

Next, you, and most fans since Broughton pumped his fist, appear already placated, write to the club let them know, it will save them millions on PR and fan forum sampling etc

 

Next, Impotent ranting? Well, Im confused, you mock me by making out Im planning a protest and say I should protest, I say Ive never threatened to protest, I point this out and then you say 'impotent ranting wont work'. We come full circle.

Despite you cynically suggesting the owners do listen and pay attention to such things for no purpose but to placate the masses and provides good PR, I actually disagree, Hodgson was gone pretty sharpish when the natives got restless and they do listen and act accordingly, they are very open on the football side to advice, a bit too open for some peoples liking.

Ive made it clear, 'what I want' and thats for us not to waste time and resources on the one position in our team that is actually stable while the other positions are not addressed.

 

In fact, Im of the same view, as the majority of posters on here was before Reina was suddenly loaned out.

 

It is you guys who have suddenly changed opinion, I dont understand why, Reina had a good season, Ive been given three examples of mistakes which were in games where those mistakes were either side of great saves and suddenly he's been shit for three years.

 

When you say I agitate for change, I have not changed, you dudes have agitated for change, prompted retrospectivally by the owners/and or Rogers decisions.

 

Its not even totally clear who is to blame for this debbarcle.

Rogers has been claiming (With a straight face and a zero net transfer budget) he brought Migno is as £9m competition, he provided Reina with inexplicable droppings last year and putting a 2nd divison standard goalie in Brad Jones last year for no discernable reason

Rogers has been banging on on competition for Reina, maybe he doesnt fancy Reina, if thats the case he hasnt had the ballls to admit it.

 

The owners will apparently, based on the Echo not countenance having a £100,000 a week player on the bench, however will pay most of those wages, provided he's turning out for someone else.

They also dont like players over 30 even though they make the best goalies.

 

Both of them and Rogers applauded and offered Reina a new contract last January on the back of the two poor *by his standards* seasons that where under a different manager and everyone is now saying is the reason for him being moved on?

 

It makes no fucking sense, he's shit for two years, new manager comes in, after 6 months Reina is given a new deal,. End of season he is loaned out, to a CL club with a hundred mill to spend, while we pay half his wage, we spend £9m on a replacement.

 

And yo wonder why I might have a problem with the above.

 

ARE YOU ALL INSANE????

 

 

oh one more thing, impotent rambling, if you cant have a view on a LFC forum then where can you?

 

I must have missed the point of a forum.

[Captain]

But if they are, as you say a "sports group" they will want their teams to be at the top of the tree?

 

Why buy the club if you know you can't compete?

 

Because they didn't know what they were getting into.

 

Given the choice again, I'm pretty sure they would have walked away.

[Guest San Don]

We either have the resources to compete, as they claim, or we do not???

 

Cant have it both ways?

 

Provide your proof they said unequivically 'we have the resources to compete with anyone.' Im talking the whole speech in context not an isolated single sentence,

 

Put up or shut up.

[Megadrive Man]

Yet they're do shrewd and money driven, they're going to sell our £50m+ rated player for £25m.

 

According to you.

 

I stand by it.

 

We will end up either selling Suarez to Arsenal for £40 million or Madrid for around the £25 million mark.

 

FSG have demonstrated that they are pretty clueless when it comes to transfers. Suarez from Ajax & Coutinho from Inter are the only good transfers we have done under their regime.

[dirk grout]

Provide your proof they said unequivically 'we have the resources to compete with anyone.' Im talking the whole speech in context not an isolated single sentence,

 

Put up or shut up.

 

You want someone to prove that a certain sentence was said but you won't accept a quote of the sentence as proof that the sentence was said. Get a grip.

[Guest San Don]

But if they are, as you say a "sports group" they will want their teams to be at the top of the tree?

 

All things being equal, yes. But when some clubs are using financial doping? Since when did manchester city have the resources to buy robinho for £32m not to mention the half billion pounds the owner has pumped into the club? Since when did PSG have the resources to spend £50m on a player?

 

Do I need to go on? The owners of those clubs are seriously rich and anyone who thinks Liverpool FC can match that spending power is living in la-la land.

 

Why buy the club if you know you can't compete?

Part of the reason they bought the club was the result of a direct plea from one of their associates to save the club from bankruptcy.

 

Now Im not fool enough to think that's the only reason they bought the club but in any event, what was the alternative? Some of you people talk glibly about administration and bankruptcy, others dont realise how close the club was to it. Oh another buyer would have bought us you all say yet there was no other credible buyer who competed with FSG.

 

You say we can compete for one stellar player, it is not enough. Which stellar player will come if he is surrounded by players of less ability?

 

The player will move on quickly as we cannot match his ambition. This has happened before, is happening now and will happen again

 

You misunderstood my post completely. I said we could possibly compete for one stellar player. That's my point, one, maybe. More than one ie transfer fee and wages, no.

[dennis tooth]

We've comfortably outspent all but 2 or 3 teams in the league since they've been here, including shattering our transfer record and eclipsing the record of clubs like Arsenal and Spurs several times on top of that. The wage cutting we've done is in moving on players whose performances on the pitch were in no way justifying the massive amounts we were paying them and I honestly can't believe anyone has a problem with that.

 

We have less income than the teams above us (even though we still outspend some of them), which means we have to spend what we have more wisely. Clearly when we were spending more than Spurs in transfer fees and wages, yet finishing miles behind them in the league (not to mention almost doubling Everton's wage bill), we had a problem with overpaying, which had to be addressed. Even in Reina's case, as great a servant as he's been to the club, if we're going to have the 3rd best paid keeper in the league on our books he has to be amongst the best performing, which clearly he hasn't been in the last few seasons (with almost every significant goalkeeping stat placing him somewhere in the bottom half). If moving him on frees up money to be better spent elsewhere then so be it,that's the kind of thing we need to do if we're going to compete with teams that have more money than we do.

 

Going down the City/Chelsea route was never on the cards with FSG, if we're going to have any success with them it'll be through following the Dortmund model of clever management, on and off the pitch. A lot will depend on what happens the rest of this summer but so far I'm quite encouraged.

 

See I dont mind that, a reasoned post with many points.

 

Just one I want to pick up on and thats where you talk about not performing achieving on the pitch as highlighted, as justification for now reducing the spending.

 

Is that not FSG's fault for taking a complete utter gamble on a manager who no one has or will have any idea about if he can compete at this level, in the absence of any evidence he does in rejection of other managers who have proven experience and acheivements?

[Marko121]

Because they didn't know what they were getting into.

 

Given the choice again, I'm pretty sure they would have walked away.

 

They only saw the money they could make and have now shit themselves as they are now realising that it takes money to make money in this game and this club has expectations. - although some would have you believe that all is fine

[Guest San Don]

You want someone to prove that a certain sentence was said but you won't accept a quote of the sentence as proof that the sentence was said. Get a grip.

 

Get a grip yourself. People quote stuff out of context or, quote an incomplete sentence to prove their point.

[dennis tooth]

Provide your proof they said unequivically 'we have the resources to compete with anyone.' Im talking the whole speech in context not an isolated single sentence,

 

Put up or shut up.

 

They and Rogers both said it. And no, given no one else seems to need to back up what they say anymore I dont see why I should take the time, if you have it or some point, please by all means produce.

[Guest San Don]

They and Rogers both said it. And no, given no one else seems to need to back up what they say anymore I dont see why I should take the time, if you have it or some point, please by all means produce.

 

So you cant back up what you claim. Im not surprised.

[dirk grout]

Get a grip yourself. People quote stuff out of context or, quote an incomplete sentence to prove their point.

 

Liverpool chairman Tom Werner says Kenny Dalglish won't follow Damien Comolli | Football News | ESPN.co.uk

 

 

Liverpool chairman says Dalglish won't follow Comolli

 

Liverpool chairman Tom Werner has explained that Damien Comolli was not the right man to lead the Reds' transfer plans, but he assured fans that Kenny Dalglish's job at Anfield is safe.

 

Director of football Comolli left on Thursday by mutual consent, citing "family reasons" for his departure. Dalglish later defended the work of the Frenchman, who has been questioned over the big-money captures of Andy Carroll, Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing following a disappointing campaign at Anfield.

 

Dalglish claimed every signing was his own transfer target, made reality by the work of Comolli, but Werner shed a different light on the situation with his explanation for the back-room shake-up.

 

"We feel there is enough talent on the pitch to win and we've been dissatisfied, as most supporters have been, with the results so far," Werner said. "But we're also talking about the future - we have a strategy we need implemented and we felt Damien was probably not the right person to implement that strategy."

 

The "disappointment" expressed by Werner in the team's results could easily be construed as a criticism of manager Dalglish, whose team currently sit eighth in the league table. But the chairman remains convinced the right man is at the helm.

 

"We've got great confidence in Kenny. We feel the team is going to make strides in the future and he enjoys our full support," stated Werner.

 

"I think it's fair to say no supporter would be delighted with the results we've achieved this year. We feel we are a club that needs to be perceived as the strongest club in football and we want to get there.

 

"Frankly, we make these decisions with a great deal of care because it's our track record in Boston to give people authority and we've had great success with our manager, who was there for eight years, and our general manager, so we prefer stability."

 

The significant financial outlay since the arrival of Dalglish and Comolli, which tops £100 million, has so far only yielded a Carling Cup success - with Champions League qualification realistically off the agenda until next season. That will not stop the Reds spending more this summer though, and a replacement for Comolli will arrive.

 

"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football," Werner promised. "I wouldn't want to get specific about any particular decision that's been made.

 

"But when it's time to act, we need to act. We're coming close to the end of the season and the transfer window for the summer, and we felt it was important to make this change [to remove Comolli] expeditiously.

 

"We're still confident the structure we've discussed is the right structure. That doesn't mean we won't look at tweaking it, but we feel a collective group of people making football decisions is healthy. The debate is healthy. Part of the reason we made this decision now is because we want to start the process of finding an excellent replacement."

 

Well?

[dennis tooth]

All things being equal, yes. But when some clubs are using financial doping? Since when did manchester city have the resources to buy robinho for £32m not to mention the half billion pounds the owner has pumped into the club? Since when did PSG have the resources to spend £50m on a player?

 

Do I need to go on? The owners of those clubs are seriously rich and anyone who thinks Liverpool FC can match that spending power is living in la-la land.

 

Part of the reason they bought the club was the result of a direct plea from one of their associates to save the club from bankruptcy.

 

Now Im not fool enough to think that's the only reason they bought the club but in any event, what was the alternative? Some of you people talk glibly about administration and bankruptcy, others dont realise how close the club was to it. Oh another buyer would have bought us you all say yet there was no other credible buyer who competed with FSG.

 

 

 

You misunderstood my post completely. I said we could possibly compete for one stellar player. That's my point, one, maybe. More than one ie transfer fee and wages, no.

 

Last year Everton, finished above us, forget city's billions.

 

As for the highlighted bit, so, if we we relegated next season and the one after, you wont mind because FSG saved us from bankrupcy, is that the extent of your logic??

 

When does criticism become acceptable to you?

At which point can someone say something derogatory about them?

 

Because you have not yourself ever criticised anything they have every done that I have seen.

They are perfect, your god figure are they?

[Marko121]

All things being equal, yes. But when some clubs are using financial doping? Since when did manchester city have the resources to buy robinho for £32m not to mention the half billion pounds the owner has pumped into the club? Since when did PSG have the resources to spend £50m on a player?

 

Do I need to go on? The owners of those clubs are seriously rich and anyone who thinks Liverpool FC can match that spending power is living in la-la land.

 

Part of the reason they bought the club was the result of a direct plea from one of their associates to save the club from bankruptcy.

 

Now Im not fool enough to think that's the only reason they bought the club but in any event, what was the alternative? Some of you people talk glibly about administration and bankruptcy, others dont realise how close the club was to it. Oh another buyer would have bought us you all say yet there was no other credible buyer who competed with FSG.

 

 

 

You misunderstood my post completely. I said we could possibly compete for one stellar player. That's my point, one, maybe. More than one ie transfer fee and wages, no.

 

And this is the problem. We buy 1 stellar player, one only, cos we can't compete for any others. The players does well ( as he is a stellar player) but because he is the only one we have, we finish 7th and we have to sell him cos

 

A) we can only afford to have 1

B) he wants play at a higher level

C) we are a team continually in transition

[dennis tooth]

So you cant back up what you claim. Im not surprised.

 

Desperate times mate, how many fools can I get thru on here before teatime?

[dennis tooth]

These are the pricks who apointed Commolli on a wedge who then signed shite like Hendo, Carroll etc.

 

But no reason not to truth their judgement.

[cuppatea]

See I dont mind that, a reasoned post with many points.

 

Just one I want to pick up on and thats where you talk about not performing achieving on the pitch as highlighted, as justification for now reducing the spending.

 

Is that not FSG's fault for taking a complete utter gamble on a manager who no one has or will have any idea about if he can compete at this level, in the absence of any evidence he does in rejection of other managers who have proven experience and acheivements?

 

We finished 8th under Kenny with the 5th highest wage budget, almost doubling the money spent on wages by 2 of the teams that finished above us and comfortably outspending Tottenham in both transfers and wages, so Rogers inherited a squad that was overpaid and under performing. As for hiring a relatively unproven manager, if they genuinely believe he's the right man for the job, having done their due diligence on him and a number of other candidates, then I've no problem with it.

 

Klopp got the Dortmund job on the back of getting relegated with Mainz and then failing to go back up the following season and Rafa had more sackings than trophies when he went to Valencia. If you look at the clubs we're presumably trying to emulate, those who have built success rather than bought it, then you could argue that an ambitious young manager with something to prove is the way to go.

[Guest San Don]

Desperate times mate, how many fools can I get thru on here before teatime?

 

Look inwards dennis, mate. Look inwards.

[dennis tooth]

We finished 8th under Kenny with the 5th highest wage budget, almost doubling the money spent on wages by 2 of the teams that finished above us and comfortably outspending Tottenham in both transfers and wages, so Rogers inherited a squad that was overpaid and under performing. As for hiring a relatively unproven manager, if they genuinely believe he's the right man for the job, having done their due diligence on him and a number of other candidates, then I've no problem with it.

 

Klopp got the Dortmund job on the back of getting relegated with Mainz and then failing to go back up the following season and Rafa had more sackings than trophies when he went to Valencia. If you look at the clubs we're presumably trying to emulate, those who have built success rather than bought it, then you could argue that an ambitious young manager with something to prove is the way to go.

 

Yeah but outspend anyone you like if you give the money to Damien Comolli it doesnt matter how much money you have. Theres nothing clever in that appointment and the subsequent shite we signed was all down to FSG's decisions.

They dont have the money, they dont have the intelligence either.

 

Rogers has shown nothing thus far, he might but theres nothing in his record to suggest he is special.

Could be the case but it didnt happen last season when it needed to happen did it?

 

They wanted Martinez but he rejected their DOF fetish as a shite strategy for any team who wants to compete at the top level in this country as theres nowhere you can point to where it has worked. It failed the first time, hence us sacking Damien.

Then they went for Rogers who also rejected the idea but for some reason didnt stop him getting the job.

After a calamitous summer window trying to sign Swansea shite and Borini etc by the next window we had put in place a transfer committee above Rogers, albeit with as he claimed final say, not enough of a final say to get Ashley Williams and that Reading flop he wanted but enough that he could nod politely when Coutinho was put on him.

Could be the case but it didnt happen last season when it needed to happen did it?

They have simply reinvested money that came in from transfers and a small portion of the record sponsorship deals they have been enjoying, theres loads theyve been able to cream off in TV money etc, this window once again ZERO NET SPEND. Both spurs and Arsenal are stricter with wages than us but we are bigger in terms of our draw, history, shirt sales abroad etc Im not proud of anyone who pays what we paid for Downing or Carroll.

 

How many clusterfucks are we going to have under these owners. You can thank them for Ian Ayre too. Theyve been here three years all this is on their watch..

 

I hope to god that they sort it out because everything but blind faith points to further unravelling, mediocracy.

 

FSG's 'MODEL' can work, but you have to be smart, you have to get the right people in to do that.

 

FSG, at this club have a history of APPOINTING TOTAL TURDS TO VITAL POSTS within the club.

I find it hard therefore to blindly trust Rogers or Ayre until these people show and prove to me that they can get one of these appointments right.

They dont even seem to prioritse that, the Rogers appointment WAS A TOTAL INSULT TO OUR FANS because it represented a gamble that shouldnt have been.

Somehow thie nous they have is meant to guide us into the CL when everyone else just puts a top manager in place if they are serious.

[Guest San Don]

And this is the problem. We buy 1 stellar player, one only, cos we can't compete for any others. The players does well ( as he is a stellar player) but because he is the only one we have, we finish 7th and we have to sell him cos

 

A) we can only afford to have 1

B) he wants play at a higher level

C) we are a team continually in transition

 

You're clearly not grasping this are you?

 

To buy and pay the wages of 2, 3, 4 or more 'stellar' players, you need a mega rich owner like mansour, comerade abramovich or some other Qataari. Without that, you aint going to be able to afford more than one.

 

In other words, we wouldnt have been able to afford a FT and Luis suarez, etc if we were buying them for the fees we got \ want for them. There's no magic wand to bring in a mega rich Qataari owner.

 

And even if there was, I dont like the idea that Liverpool FC would become their personal play thing. No doubt some people would.

[Garrincha]

What FSG need to realise is you need to speculate to accumulate. You can't slash wages continually and advance up the table. Top class players require top class wages. It might work in the Bundesliga or in Italy but it'll never work in the premier league. United, City and Chelsea could easily spend 100 million on transfers per season, how are you going to challenge for honours on a shoestring in comparison to that kind of buying power?

 

We buy potential, we sell stars...thats our policy.