Go fuck yourselves FSG

[Guest San Don]

Or how about putting some of their own money in and invest in a few big players short term to get us back to the top and if it works they can make money in long term.

 

If you want to achieve things you need to take chances, not just playing it safe.

 

Ah, the old signal of intent argument.

 

Well for starters, they'd fall foul of the PL and UEFA's FFP rules. But let's ignore that and hope both the PL and UEFA consider us to be one of the special cases in their rules which says they can ignore FFP for certain clubs, eh?

 

People wanted the club to be self financing and not dependent on a sugar daddy. Only now, people like you think its ok to have a sugar daddy shovel hundreds of millions into the club just so long as its not too much.

 

And what happens if they want or need to take 'their' money out of the club? Are they supposed to say ah fuck it, its only half a billion quid. Or would you be ok with them putting the club into admin if it cant repay?

 

Dicks like you are quick to spend other people's money. a million, ten million, a hundred million, its easy to say when its not yours.

 

You've no fucking idea you whopper.

[Code]

Ah, the old signal of intent argument.

 

Well for starters, they'd fall foul of the PL and UEFA's FFP rules. But let's ignore that and hope both the PL and UEFA consider us to be one of the special cases in their rules which says they can ignore FFP for certain clubs, eh?

 

People wanted the club to be self financing and not dependent on a sugar daddy. Only now, people like you think its ok to have a sugar daddy shovel hundreds of millions into the club just so long as its not too much.

 

And what happens if they want or need to take 'their' money out of the club? Are they supposed to say ah fuck it, its only half a billion quid. Or would you be ok with them putting the club into admin if it cant repay?

 

Dicks like you are quick to spend other people's money. a million, ten million, a hundred million, its easy to say when its not yours.

 

You've no fucking idea you whopper.

 

I guess you would find we have spent the same money as City just did on Jovetic already this summer, the difference is we have spread it on quantity instead of proven quality, instead of buying Allen and Borini last summer we could have bought a proven quality player for £28M.

 

But please continue, you are entertaining in some way.

 

I also love this line about what people wanted before, who are these people and how do you know what they wanted?

 

I wanted DIC to buy us because they had more money than G&H, I did not really want FSG because they did not have enough money.

 

Moores sold us because he did not have enough money himself to take the club forward.

 

To take the club forward you will need to invest your own money, its pretty simple really.

[stringvest]

If you give players good enough wages they will come, CL or not, especially at a club like ours.

 

No they won't. To the average European/South American 20-25 year old player already in the top tier, earning zillions and regularly playing CL football, we have very little pull as a club. They weren't even born when we were regarded as a top club. We haven't won anything that they can even relate to for 8 years.

[Code]

No they won't. To the average European/South American 20-25 year old player already in the top tier, earning zillions and regularly playing CL football, we have very little pull as a club. They weren't even born when we were regarded as a top club. We haven't won anything that they can even relate to for 8 years.

 

Yes they would, there are enough evidence out there to prove it.

 

I hope I dont need to point them out.

[Lycan]

I don't really think we should be going down the route of doing a City, Monaco or PSG. Especially when it comes to the crazy wages they are willing to pay these players. I think that would be very dangerous for our club indeed.

[Lycan]

Yes they would, there are enough evidence out there to prove it.

 

I hope I dont need to point them out.

 

Do you think we need to be doing what Monaco have been doing then? Compensating the lack of European football by offering to pay top players crazy wages. Is that what you think?

[dennis tooth]

See the miky transfer debacle for example, it wouldnt have broken us or FSG to bid the required amount and get him in early, we wasted loads of time speaking to the wrong people and didnt even make a bid, say what you want about Dortmund being in the CL, we didnt even make a bid.

 

Reason being is the zero net spend, we need to sell before we can buy and clubs cooled on Reina and Suarez, plus the likes of Downing didnt want to move, tough titties FSG.

Cardie the legal fees have been made over and over again.

 

This a very similar system to H and G but without the interest on loans, they make a profit for doing very little but getting lucrative sponsorship deals.

They may well have put forth the system they are using now and been upfront with it, the problem is back when they took us over we didnt expect such a wait to be out of the CL for so long, it has impacted on our transfer funds clearly as we only get to spend near to what we generate ourselves. We know the issue now is getting back in and whether what system they employ is enough to do that?

They brought in a mmanager whose record is not worthy of this club and our ambitions, a man who sees trophies as secondary to making people better people.

A fucking academy coach who thinks and works like one, his tactical prowess is severly lacking. He has this season to prove me wrong, myself I think Moyes is a better manager than him but these are only suspicions, fact is he has a blank slate in many ways, this season will tell us one way or another, his cup form last year showed he is not a top level coach. He has this summer to get it right.

Most people who are optomistic are basing it on last seasons 'too little, too late' form, some thrashings handed out to utter shite when the pressure was off. In fact anytime anything approaching the slightest bit of pressure was on the team and Brendan he fell on his arse. In my experience, a top manager, even a top inexperienced manager, say Diego Simeone, Pocechinno etc even if they dont acheive their goals they thrive under pressure, its normally the weaker teams they struggle with at first but in the big games they turn up. We saw the oppositte.

He is not even the right man therefore for their system, we took a beard to beat any top six sides last year, thats where we struggle, so how can it be that we can expect to compete with them on less resources, under a manager who doesnt seem to be able to do that?

They appointed him and dismissed other top, experienced managers who have proven no matter what their resources manage to find a way to do it and rise to the top?

 

The signings look good recently but these are being picked by a committee, he didnt want sturridge last year but people credit him to Rogers, given his Chelsea links and background in youth coaching, its mental. Ive followed Sturridges progress since he was 15, so dont give me that 'he needed time to have a look at him', whats he been doing?

Rogers wanted to sign Williams, Siggurdson and some other wank players as well as Allen who was a total waste of money and Borini who is a total waste of oxygen and at best is a mediocre Serie A striker who is not suited to this league. Im not a big fan of the committee but I get the impression this may have been formed in response to Rogers bizzarre, inflated overrated and childishly naive transfer targets, its fucking gay all this cocking around. Other clubs do it simple, get a top manager in if your serious, invest external money if you are serious, or if you're not get a manager in who has a questionable record and invest a minimal outlay, if any, then float around while your top players find the best way to leave a sinking ship for more serious teams.

 

I hope he proves me wrong and FSG's 'vision' will come true but I think it would happen a lot quicker if they threw £40m in here and there and stopped forcing us to sell our top players. If I was Suarez Id be off due to lack of serious investment, if I was Reina Id be off for same reasons plus the fact they've just spent £9m on a keeper but no one is arsed about a half decent DM destroyer.

[stringvest]

Nah. If you're talking about players going to Monaco, then that's slightly different. Like it or not, Liverpool while it has its attractions is not in the same league as London, Paris, or any number of southern European locations. Add to that the neuer Deutscher hegemony, it would take an unlikely form of ambition for a player with top notch options to join us. At the moment, we're second tier - fishing in a pool of '7 out of 10' players and young potential. That's not to say we cannot find another Suarez or Coutinho, and it's not to say that we cannot put together a well balanced squad of players equipped to compete with the best in the country.

[The Woolster]

I completely disagree with that last sentence. I think the risk is that the longer we stay out of the CL, the bigger the gulf in quality between the top four and us will become, and the more our commercial appeal will decline. I don't think we can afford to happily sit in sixth or seventh and work patiently towards getting back into the CL.

 

If Arsenal do start spending serious money from their stadium revenue before we redevelop Anfield, and before Spurs or Everton or anyone else are able to crash the party, they could easily lock up that final CL place for the foreseeable future. They'd have a better squad than us, more income than us, CL football to bring in both the revenue and the players, and a manager who has an outstanding track record in precisely the kind of transfer policy that we aspire to.

 

If we're in that kind of situation, or worse, by the time we're ready to start work on the stadium, it's not going to be the money-spinner some people are hoping it will be. Its earning power will be restricted by the diminished appeal to sponsors, corporate parties and daytrippers of a team that's miles away from getting back to the top.

 

If we didn't have the scenario of Arsenal spending the Emirates revenue hanging over us, I'd be more inclined to be patient. But we don't know when that scenario might materialise, and it could be very soon, so I think we need to pre-empt it.

 

You completely disagree with my last sentence, thats fine, but you did not answer my question which preceeded it, what happens if we spend big and don't get into Champions League next season, spend big again? And if we don't get in again?

[Bobby Hundreds]

I don't really think we should be going down the route of doing a City, Monaco or PSG. Especially when it comes to the crazy wages they are willing to pay these players. I think that would be very dangerous for our club indeed.

 

Who is asking for that. How we spend our money as opposed to how much is spent is the issue. We spend a lot I think there's only city and Chelsea who have spent more in the premier league era. Our problem is we've spent 20 years squad building. This is all just difference of opinions my opinion is every single penny we have to spend on players should be spent entirely on improving the first 11 for now, not the squad or for the first 11 in 5 years.

[Guest LFD]

I hope he proves me wrong and FSG's 'vision' will come true but I think it would happen a lot quicker if they threw £40m in here and there and stopped forcing us to sell our top players. If I was Suarez Id be off due to lack of serious investment, if I was Reina Id be off for same reasons plus the fact they've just spent £9m on a keeper but no one is arsed about a half decent DM destroyer.

 

Which top player have they sold since coming here? We lost Torres, because he had a release clause, that's it.

 

We've spent plenty of money since they have been here, but unfortunately a lot of that money has been wasted.

 

FSG have been doing a good job since they came here. I know it's not fashionable to say that and it is easy to just insult them and blame them for everything - but they have done far more good than bad.

[Code]

Do you think we need to be doing what Monaco have been doing then? Compensating the lack of European football by offering to pay top players crazy wages. Is that what you think?

 

I think the prospect of playing in the Premier League compared to Ligue 1 and for Liverpool instead of Monaco might help us reduce the wages a bit and we would not need to buy so many players either, its not like we are starting from scratch.

[Code]

Nah. If you're talking about players going to Monaco, then that's slightly different. Like it or not, Liverpool while it has its attractions is not in the same league as London, Paris, or any number of southern European locations. Add to that the neuer Deutscher hegemony, it would take an unlikely form of ambition for a player with top notch options to join us. At the moment, we're second tier - fishing in a pool of '7 out of 10' players and young potential. That's not to say we cannot find another Suarez or Coutinho, and it's not to say that we cannot put together a well balanced squad of players equipped to compete with the best in the country.

 

Players went to City as well before they became a top 4 team, Etoo went to Russia, now a lot of players go to Turkey.

 

Saving your way to the top is not the way forward, its never been and it never will be.

[Batigol]

I've no problems with FSG. They'd have been great owners to have when the club was the 2nd/3rd best team in the country and doing well in Europe. As it stands they're good solid ownerss that aren't going to harm the clubs long term future.

 

However the realisation that without massive investment, I'll never see the club challenge for the title again stings fucking hard. Might even need it to get in the top four tbh. It's boring watching so many other clubs sign up all the great players, whilst Liverpool beg for the and scrounge around for what is left over. It's little fun having no interest in football after March/April either.

 

So once where I would have said fuck that I don't want to be like chelsea has changed for me, and I suspect a lot of others. We've missed the boat with owners like that and FSG are here for the long all so there's really little to do except suck it up and moan about the big spenders destroying football. And hope that Brendan and the scouting team can pull some amazing rabbits out of their hat every season.

[dennis tooth]

Does it matter? So long as the money is not debt put on the club, what difference does it make whether they use their 'own' money (whatever that is), sponsorship money or money that the club now generates but didnt used to?

 

Some of you people make me laugh. Oh, its not their money they're using, its only sponsorship or other money,blah, blah, blah. Hey, listen. I've got news for you.

 

Its not debt. Its money they're not syphoning off like the last two cowboys or the glazers at manchester. Open your fucking eyes!

 

Your argument is based on relativism.

 

Comparing FSG to H and G and Glazers is desperate stuff.

Anyway, that aside, my questioning is, is what they are doing enough to get us where we want to be? Im sceptical.

Did they realise what they where getting into when they bought us they admitted they didnt understand the sport. Granted their advisors had told them we would be a good investment, we were at rock bottom, our valuation they paid for was little more than the valuation of our squad alone when you include wages.

 

I reject that there arent sugar daddys out there whoever said that, thats wrong and they are buying shit teams all the time. The price they are willing to pay may not give FSG the profit they want and yet H and G had similar points but were forced out as they were taking us backwards on the pitch, under FSG we have stood still thus far under them.

If the fans kicked up another fuss it would force them into doing something before we lost value and appeal based on disillusioned fans, or consumers as they like to call us behind closed doors.

Im not sure what the answer is but I know what questions are relevant.

[Lycan]

I think the prospect of playing in the Premier League compared to Ligue 1 and for Liverpool instead of Monaco might help us reduce the wages a bit and we would not need to buy so many players either, its not like we are starting from scratch.

 

We'd still have to pay them ridiculous money Code. I mean how far do we push it before we put the entire club at financial risk again in search the glory we may or may not get? After all spending shit loads of money is no guarantee to success either.

 

It's not how much you spend, it's how you spend it that counts.

[Gym Beglin]

Nothing wrong with our owners, it's upto Rodgers now.

 

Not all brilliant players cost £30m, just the famous ones.

 

Get the 11 players on the pitch to win games, money is no guarantee of results.

[dennis tooth]

Which top player have they sold since coming here? We lost Torres, because he had a release clause, that's it.

 

We've spent plenty of money since they have been here, but unfortunately a lot of that money has been wasted.

 

FSG have been doing a good job since they came here. I know it's not fashionable to say that and it is easy to just insult them and blame them for everything - but they have done far more good than bad.

 

Im not blaming them for everything and anything, dummy, Im posing the question, IS IT ENOUGH?

[Lycan]

Who is asking for that. How we spend our money as opposed to how much is spent is the issue. We spend a lot I think there's only city and Chelsea who have spent more in the premier league era. Our problem is we've spent 20 years squad building. This is all just difference of opinions my opinion is every single penny we have to spend on players should be spent entirely on improving the first 11 for now, not the squad or for the first 11 in 5 years.

 

I don't know why you responded to my post as it wasn't directed at you. And to be honest I don't really disagree with what your saying. My post was directed at those who think we should be over-spending on players and wages in search of success like Monaco are doing.

[Guest San Don]

I guess you would find we have spent the same money as City just did on Jovetic already this summer, the difference is we have spread it on quantity instead of proven quality, instead of buying Allen and Borini last summer we could have bought a proven quality player for £28M.

 

But please continue, you are entertaining in some way.

 

I also love this line about what people wanted before, who are these people and how do you know what they wanted?

 

I wanted DIC to buy us because they had more money than G&H, I did not really want FSG because they did not have enough money.

 

Moores sold us because he did not have enough money himself to take the club forward.

 

To take the club forward you will need to invest your own money, its pretty simple really.

 

The difference is city are in the CL you whopper. Plus, they're far outspent us since manour took over. But you carry on with your deluded claims that top quality players like jovetic, will come here if we pay them top money.

 

Talking of top money, that would be 200 thou a week would it? You're so deluded you're swimming in shit but you cant see it even when its right under your nose.

 

You wanted DIC (yeah I guess you do!)? That's the same DIC who've had money issues themselves and have had to sell off parts of their portfolio, would it?

 

Yes, moores sold the club because he couldnt finance it. He missed the chance no doubt listening to whopper's like you who wanted the club to remain 'traditional' instead of bravely taking on sponsorship like we did with Hitachi, wouldnt santcion the growth of club merchandising because it was 'tacky' and wouldnt consider floatation because he wanted to remain in control (despite not being able to finance the club further).

 

I see you've now taken to re writing history further by denying what the majority of people wanted from a new owner when the club was being sold. You sound like someone else on here who re writes history to suit.

 

You're just a troll, code. Nothing more, nothing less. You chat endless shit like a stato, billy no mates who desparately wants to try and win friends.

[dennis tooth]

Nothing wrong with our owners, it's upto Rodgers now.

 

Not all brilliant players cost £30m, just the famous ones.

 

Get the 11 players on the pitch to win games, money is no guarantee of results.

 

46% win rate under rogers?

[Guest LFD]

Im not blaming them for everything and anything, dummy, Im posing the question, IS IT ENOUGH?

 

I think it is.

 

The key to their plan is buying well and that is why we got a whole new transfer committee and scouts from City. So far they have delivered, based on January.

[The Woolster]

I said where are your number and proof to back them up. We all know you question the owners continually. You make out its a piece of piss to scope out the figures for a new build. So come on, deliver the figures and proof that they are deliverable and not plucked straight from your arse.

 

Here are my very quick numbers. Big guesses and nice round numbers used for ease though.

 

Redevelopment - Cost £150. Naming rights £2m per year (gonna guess we sell rights to part of the area outside the stadium)

 

New build - Cost £300m? Brightons cost £93m for 30k seats in the middle of nowhere. Emirates cost £470m for 60k seats in middle of London. Naming rights £10m per year.

 

It will take 19 years before cost less naming rights income is lower for new build (300-190=110) than redevelopment (150-38=112)

 

If the naming rights contract is renegotiated after say 10 years, that might shave off a couple of years from that.

 

A New build would have higher average ticket price though as there would be more corporate seating I would have thought.

[Lycan]

The difference is city are in the CL you whopper. Plus, they're far outspent us since manour took over. But you carry on with your deluded claims that top quality players like jovetic, will come here if we pay them top money.

 

 

The thing is players like Jovetic, Falcao, and Cavani probably would join us if we were to offer them 200k + a week. But I don't really think that's a route this club should be going down at all.

[Guest San Don]

Your argument is based on relativism.

 

Comparing FSG to H and G and Glazers is desperate stuff.

 

No its not. You're just being very selective in what you want to base your argument on. The fact is the two cowboys ran the club close to admin. You want to stop and think about that for a while. The glazers are syphoning millions off manchester (thank god or think what money the would have to spend).

 

Anyway, that aside, my questioning is, is what they are doing enough to get us where we want to be? Im sceptical.

Did they realise what they where getting into when they bought us they admitted they didnt understand the sport. Granted their advisors had told them we would be a good investment, we were at rock bottom, our valuation they paid for was little more than the valuation of our squad alone when you include wages.

 

The thing is its going to take time to get us where we want to be without throwing huge amounts at the club. People didnt want that at first. city are probably the last english club to be able to do this before FFP bites in the PL if not under UEFA.

 

If you want to believe their sole reason buying the club was to make a quick buck, that's up to you. But seriously this idea doesnt fly. We were rock bottom. That doesnt make something a good investment. It'll likely need a lot of money and time to turn a rock bottom investment into a gold plated one.

 

Yeah we've got history. Not many players are bothered about history unless they are winning things at the club now

 

I reject that there arent sugar daddys out there whoever said that, thats wrong and they are buying shit teams all the time. The price they are willing to pay may not give FSG the profit they want and yet H and G had similar points but were forced out as they were taking us backwards on the pitch, under FSG we have stood still thus far under them.

 

The answer is in your supposition but you still dont see it. Mega rich people do not like making other people rich or richer. Why is it you think comerade abramovich bought chelshit when they were on the verge of bankrupcy? Was it their 'history' that appealed to him or the fact he could get the club for a couple of quid and he had the resources to pump into it?

 

Why did mansour buy city? Was it because he like manchester? No, its because he could buy the club cheap and pump his money in. No one got seriously rich on the back of anyone buying a football club in England. manchester united are the only one to buck the trend. Wonder why that is?

 

If the fans kicked up another fuss it would force them into doing something before we lost value and appeal based on disillusioned fans, or consumers as they like to call us behind closed doors.

Im not sure what the answer is but I know what questions are relevant.

 

Kicked up a fuss? FFS. That'll be the some of the same fans who come on here about knock off shirts them complain the owners arent putting enough of their own money in the club?