Villa match thread ( home )

[Hooch]

Agree totally.

I find Gerrard incredibly lazy off the ball, it's a real problem, we don't close down in numbers, it's just one man going.

Basics.

 

Agree with that.

 

We need to take his defensive responsibilities away from him like Benitez did to get the best out of him. He's simply not good enough, or maybe aresed enough to play as a modern central midfielder.

Either push him up just behind Suarez or onto the right, then I'd like to see Spearing and Henderson or Shelvey as a deep central midfield pair.

[TheHowieLama]

Tonight I'm gonna party like its 1944.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Tonight I'm gonna party like its 1944.

 

1946 for you though, always late to the party.

[TheHowieLama]

1946 for you though, always late to the party.

 

You should aim higher, get your head up and have a look around and you could be Leg Piss.

[Guest ShoePiss]

You should aim higher, get your head up and have a look around and you could be Leg Piss.

 

dick splash

[LoggerheadThief]

I presume a pre team talk (tactics) goes on the lines of "Alrite lads pass and move, you know the Liverpool way. Get out there and try your best !". But we got a whole lot of shite and players passed their best. Cara is finished. Gerard is now going through the motions and turning up when he feels he has too. Both great players, but I accuse you both in RAFAGATE.

[xerxes]

What bothers me is that when we recruited Kenny we all thought that a winner’s mentality was at the bedrock of what he would bring back to the club.

 

Last season we saw a relaxed man at ease with himself, in sharp contrast to his notoriously taciturn press conferences when he last managed us. His off camera relationship with the press is far more cordial than some would imagine now, with several leading sports writers fixtures on his charity golf days.

 

Now the old taciturn, defensive Kenny is back. His mentality, and therefore that of the team, is wrong.

 

The problem with blaming “things outside of our control” (Referees/the FA/ bad luck) is that it provides an excuse for players and club officials, because our league performance is not their fault, it is somebody else’s. The players will win games by their own efforts –not the whims of Lady Luck.

 

The problem with blaming bad luck and the woodwork for our lack of goals/points is that it is goals that win games. You might as well hit the corner flag as the post. If Kenny and therefore Suarez /Carroll/Bellamy/Dirk think we are going to score more goals when our luck changes we are in big trouble. We will score more goals when we get more players in the box, have more shots on target, and do that more often.

 

In retrospect this also surfaced during the Suarez affair, a sense that it was Evra/Man U/ Ferguson/the FA /Media ‘s fault meant that no-one at the club took responsibility, and control, themselves – the consequences of which are history.

 

Kenny arrived in the most favourable of circumstances, new owners with money, a departing incumbent who had failed, the fans behind him, a decent (but demoralised) squad and league form which seemed as though it could not get worse (although it has). It wasn’t a time for tactics, of the two players he bought only Suarez was able to play much so there was no disruption to the squad, restore confidence, put a smile on people’s faces and let the player’s do their job – and so it came to pass.

 

Perversely it has been as he has been able to substantially affect the playing staff and tactics that things have deteriorated.

 

I have never believed in the myth of the infallible manager – ask Ferguson about Veron or selling Staam. What sets successful managers apart is learning from your mistakes because you don’t get the opportunity to make the same mistake twice.

 

Kenny has the capability to turn things around, and I back him to do so.. But he needs to rediscover the mentality which made him so formidable as a player and manager. A mentality of personal responsibility and excellence. If you do your job right, the rest tends to sort itself out. There is a fine line between protecting your players, and having them giggle in their Ferrari’s that “the boss has swallowed the bad luck and referees bullshit again”.

[stringvest]

 

Because the end of the game is when you abandon the manager's tactics and throw caution to the wind.

 

It didn't do us any harm in the throw off the shackles season. Player power!

[Dave D]

Agree with that.

 

We need to take his defensive responsibilities away from him like Benitez did to get the best out of him. He's simply not good enough, or maybe aresed enough to play as a modern central midfielder.

Either push him up just behind Suarez or onto the right, then I'd like to see Spearing and Henderson or Shelvey as a deep central midfield pair.

 

Push Gerrard up, totally agree.

 

Spearing, Henderson and Shelvey? Sell or drop the lot. Perhaps Shelvey in the Ressies.

 

We're Liverpool. Not Fulham. Not Villa. Not Sunderland. Liverpool. Understand?

[Ranxerox]

Even if we had won, it would only have papered over the cracks. Sadly, we are an average top half team now. We're playing worse than that at the moment, partly down to loss of confidence. We have played better than that, notably at the start of the season when we were creating plenty of chances but not finishing them. Our defending was better, so we were sneaking draws and the occasional win. You can only go so long like that, and eventually with injuries, Suarezgate etc. the confidence drained away and the defence started leaking goals while the attack continued to be as powder puff as ever.

The underlying problems are still there.

Lack of quality- there are only so many times hitting the post / just missing can be put down to bad luck, and a bit more quality would mean more goals and more confidence. The final pass is too often mishit, misplaced, behind the player and so on- lack of quality. We need better players- technique and mentality.

Lack of pace- we have been moaning about this for ages but the problem if anything is getting worse- Downing the quickest player in the team? Oh dear. Bellamy? A 33 year old veteran with no knees? Oh dear. Gerrard? Inspirational player whose best years are behind him and who no longer has that burst to get away from players? Oh dear. And it just gets worse from there. When we attack, how many times do you see our players receive the ball and turn back or inside because they know they cannot outrun the opposition player? We can't hurt teams on the counter attack because of this.

Tactics- We don't seem to have a plan or way of playing, as seen in the first half. Not enough movement and options, but more than that not enough TEAM movement. It's no good one or two of the forwards making runs while eight other outfield players stand there and try to hit a Hollywood ball to pick out the forward who is surrounded by three defenders every time. The team needs to move the ball around faster, which is hindered by poor passing technique and lack of pace once the player does get the ball.

Oh, and I HATE that whisky soaked c**t from down the M62. Done a great hatchet job on Suarez, so now everyone including the media and the referees think its open season on him, and if he gets a booking after being fouled its OK because that's the "reputation he has"- given him by that c**t.

Where now? We can't wield any power with the media unless we are successful and have something they want- then we can refuse access to the Mirror / Guardian / whoever else we need. So put that on the backburner for the moment, play the game, but don't forget.

We can't influence the FA / officials at the moment- no-one with close links, not successful enough to demand certain referees don't officiate our games- so again put on the back burner, but keep working for influence, and don't forget what they did to us.

The club needs a united front, from J.Henry to Kenny to the players to the fans. Decisions about moving people on to be done behind the scenes, at the end of the season- no point now. We don't have half a billion to spend as City did (although the previous £100M wasn't terribly well spent), so it will have to be slow steady progression. We need leadership that the owners and the fans believe in. I don't know if Kenny is that man, I don't know how much of the tactics or signings are his, but I believe he has the interests of LFC at heart and if he feels he is not the man for the job he will walk himself. I'd rather that then tossers like Barclay and Holt hounding him out. If he's not the man, whoever comes in will need time and support, and could do without the fans turning against him after one bed season, egged on by senior egos, wannabe football managers and shit stirring media.

 

...but these are all the problems a good manager is hired to deal with. Dalglish has made a mash of it form the signings, to Suarez, to selection, to tactics, to subs, to whatever the fuck they do all week at Mellwood (practice nets must be bigger than regulation size, someone should check) he needs to be moved on at the end of the season. A mid season change next year means another lost season.

[Guest San Don]

Push Gerrard up, totally agree.

 

Spearing, Henderson and Shelvey? Sell or drop the lot. Perhaps Shelvey in the Ressies.

 

We're Liverpool. Not Fulham. Not Villa. Not Sunderland. Liverpool. Understand?

 

Dont know where you are coming from regarding Gerrard. He's not got the legs to play further forward and run himself into the ground for 90 minutes. That groin injury has taken a toll on him imo.

 

Thought shelvey had a good game today bar the miss placed pass to Flanagan which led to the goal.

 

Funny as fuck this place, massive calls to 'give the young players a chance' and when they get that people want them sold!

[dirk grout]

Agree with that.

 

We need to take his defensive responsibilities away from him like Benitez did to get the best out of him. He's simply not good enough, or maybe aresed enough to play as a modern central midfielder.

Either push him up just behind Suarez or onto the right, then I'd like to see Spearing and Henderson or Shelvey as a deep central midfield pair.

 

Are you taking the piss? Gerrard started the game just behind suarez, with henderson and shelvey in centre mid. He then moved to the right after about half an hour when we went 442 with dirk up top. Did you even watch the game? The things you are saying we should do is exactly what we did. Neither worked very well by the way.

[xerxes]

Dont know where you are coming from regarding Gerrard. He's not got the legs to play further forward and run himself into the ground for 90 minutes. That groin injury has taken a toll on him imo.

 

Thought shelvey had a good game today bar the miss placed pass to Flanagan which led to the goal.

 

Funny as fuck this place, massive calls to 'give the young players a chance' and when they get that people want them sold!

 

All fair calls.

 

It's going to be a painful couple of years.

[kalasoma]

Liverpool 9: Woodwork 2,328

I am at a loss. Can we not get the ball between the 3 white things for the rest of the season, please?

[boomer39]

were downing and henderson playing today???????????????????????

[a stoner]

Liverpool 9: Woodwork 2,328

I am at a loss. Can we not get the ball between the 3 white things for the rest of the season, please?

 

Nope it's just not big enough. I think they should change the goals on the practice ground so they are 15% smaller then they might hit the fucking target on match day.

[Antynwa]

Henderson was my man of the match and Enrique has been absolutely shite since the cup final.

[Paco]

same old same old. concede 1 from a couple of chances created, hit the woodwork, loads of corners, 20 attempts on goal, keeper pulls of unbelievable saves, handballs in the box but no penalties, player makes contact with suarez and commentator calls him a cheat, exact same thing happens down the other end it's a penalty. The argument that we're unlucky has long gone - we just don't have enough quality to beat even the most ordinary of teams.

 

Doni got punished for making a mistake from more or less the only thing he had to deal with. flanagan was ok but we seemed very reluctant to get the ball to him, carragher and skrtel dealt with everything apart from being able to get a block in on herd for the goal. That would have been exceptional defending if either of them could have done that. wasn't down to them anyway. henderson or shelvey should have been anticipating the pull back. I've been blaming carragher for a lot of our defensive woes this season. I was thinking we'd conceded far more when he's played than when it's been agger and skrtel but there's very little in it really. agger and skrtel have played 20 times at cb together in all comps conceding 20 with 7 clean sheets. Carragher has started 21 times at CB in all comps and conceded 24 with 5 clean sheets. So I don't think we can lay the blame at carraghers door. I think skrtel and agger just look a better pair. I certainly thought we were far better defensively with those 2 together and to be honest I'd still prefer those 2 over carra with either of them. The problem is we don't defend well as a unit, we give the oppo good opportunities to score and they usually take them. Enrique continued his poor form today. I suddenly realised in this game he can't pass the ball accurately more than 5 yards and he can't cross. he can carry the ball all day, he's strong as a bull, a willing runner and quick enough but the modern full back needs to be able to cross. we need another left back to challenge him for the position.

 

I was delighted to see Gerrard playing off suarez even if it was tempered a little by the prospect of shelvey and henderson behind him but I thought both were ok. Henderson probably had his best game until injury time when he overhit a pass out to the left and took a shot from distance when he should have got the ball wide for a cross. However, I thought a lot of his passing was excellent today and he even managed a couple of tackles. shelvey is very comfortable on the ball but he and everyone else ran out of ideas when we got to the edge of their box. I thought he was unlucky to be taken off. I'd have pulled kuyt as he was never gonna score. Gerrard and Suarez started brightly together but the telepathy isn't there yet. That cross that suarez flicked onto the post has also been met by owen and torres in the past. we need these two to hit it off quickly because they're our most creative players and our best goalscorers so getting them closer together is a no brainer for me. I don't expect they'll play together like this against blackburn or everton though or maybe they will - they didn't exactly hit it off today. kenny usually pulls the plug on a tactic that seems to work.

 

Dirk kuyt was the big villain today though. unlucky with one that may have been behind the line but missed a sitter from a gerrard shot cross. it was flashed at him but it looked harder to miss but he did. I say kuyt was the villain but I think carroll did himself no favours again today. you can say he was unlucky or he's young, should have started, needs games, lacks confidence but you could also say he's useless, has no game intelligence and it's totally unacceptable. he's had 2 or 3 chances when he's come on, one was a complete air shot from a corner when he's bull dozed a few of them out of the way, the other a header from a good gerrard cross that had to go across goal. The worst piece of play from him was late on and he's done well at the edge of the box to take the ball down, he's got a second to get the ball wide the way he's facing and he turns back into trouble and loses the ball. everything he does is the wrong thing. it would be funny if it wasn't us but you can see why we're being called a laughing stock. we paid 35m for this clown. This is why we're being laughed at. I was at Liverpool Villa on easter saturday 1999. we lost 1 nil to either a rigobert song og or might have been ian taylor. Sean Dundee came on that day for what was probably his final game for the club so pitiful was his display although we were so bad that day it was worth throwing him on to see if he was capable of anything. he wasn't and he was sold that summer. we took shovel fulls of shit for that signing. Now we're taking more fot Kenny paying 35m for Andy Carroll and his failure to look like he's worth a 10th of that price and the fact we're languishing mid table on route for our worst ever premier league finish and one of our worst ever league finishes full stop. If Carroll isn't bad enough we've also paid 20m for downing to do one thing per game. he got one good cross in today after leaving hutton for dead but as usual we failed to capitalised. if we had a decent striker he might make downing look like an assist king but that would be flattering. why wasn't he going at hutton all day? he's a yellow belly, play the percentages, pull out of 50 50's waste of a shirt. There was an article last year by prentice I think that said kenny got shot meireles because he pulled out of a tackle against united that led to gerrard being sent off in kennys first game. meireles may not have been a great tackler but he looks like cattermole compared to downing the fucking shite.

 

The positive thing was we ended the run of defeats. I thought henderson was decent in the centre with Gerrard off suarez. I doubt we'll see this in the next 2 games though because kenny keeps changing his team from week to week. How can Lionel Messi play every minute of every game for barcelona? sure he's the best footballer ever but he's human. why are we changing the team from one week to the next? keeping players fresh? that's fucking great. we can't win a game but the players are fresh. well when they get to edge of the oppositions why the fuck do they look like a drunk at a cross roads trying to figure out which is the road home? this doesn't look like the result of fit bodies, fit minds - it looks like the same old tired shit we've had to put up with for 20 years, just different underachievers wearing the shirts. Thank God for Danny Agger. his brief performance today showed what we've been missing - leadership. he dragged us kicking and screaming back into that game today. With him back we might even beat Everton next week as long as he can get the rest of them to play for the shirt as well.

[Hooch]

Are you taking the piss? Gerrard started the game just behind suarez, with henderson and shelvey in centre mid. He then moved to the right after about half an hour when we went 442 with dirk up top. Did you even watch the game? The things you are saying we should do is exactly what we did. Neither worked very well by the way.

 

Firstly I was not just referring to todays game in my point. It's a general opinion I've made from the way Gerrard has played in games this season. He's been lazy at times and just doesn't cut it (for me) at CM anymore.

 

Secondly, I watched "most" of it. I say that as I'm a steward and I have to keep an eye on the crowd too. I can honestly of say the large chunks I caught it looked like Gerrard was dropping deep centrally and demanding the ball, with whoever was in posession shitting themselves and giving him it.

He'd then play a decent but not defence splitting pass and repeat.

 

I saw he moved to the right and had a bit more joy whipping balls in.

[KopOut]

Scouting system is there, Kenny chose to not use it and go British.

And any idea of moving Kenny upstairs was over with when he took the managers job. He won't be kept on at the club in any sort of real way now sadly, maybe as an ambassador.

 

Was it Kenny's idea to go British? This is crucial to know. The new UEFA rules about Nationality of team players kick in next season, with heavy fines for clubs who don't fulfil a quota, or so I've been told. Anyone please with more info on this?? Did Kenny get TOLD to buy British?? Owners wanting to get ahead of the game, so to speak? Surely Kenny does what the Board tells him to??

[Paco]

Henderson was my man of the match and Enrique has been absolutely shite since the cup final.

 

somebody probably said "that's us in europe, wait until you see anfield on a european night" and they're probably thinking "that's what I came here for" whereas they should be thinking "why the fuck does it only have to be european nights?"

[Paco]

Firstly I was not just referring to todays game in my point. It's a general opinion I've made from the way Gerrard has played in games this season. He's been lazy at times and just doesn't cut it (for me) at CM anymore.

 

Secondly, I watched "most" of it. I say that as I'm a steward and I have to keep an eye on the crowd too. I can honestly of say the large chunks I caught it looked like Gerrard was dropping deep centrally and demanding the ball, with whoever was in posession shitting themselves and giving him it.

He'd then play a decent but not defence splitting pass and repeat.

 

I saw he moved to the right and had a bit more joy whipping balls in.

 

you're right, he started off further forward with suarez but he wasn't getting the ball enough so he started to drop deeper looking it. kenny must have moved him right at half time because he started out there second half but moved to the centre when shelvey was hooked.

 

him and suarez up front together is our only hope of goals this season but somebody needs to be getting the ball to him quicker from midfield.

[DooooodekNo5]

Was it Kenny's idea to go British? This is crucial to know. The new UEFA rules about Nationality of team players kick in next season, with heavy fines for clubs who don't fulfil a quota, or so I've been told. Anyone please with more info on this?? Did Kenny get TOLD to buy British?? Owners wanting to get ahead of the game, so to speak? Surely Kenny does what the Board tells him to??

 

You blamed Steve Clarke for it all in the other thread now its the owners fault in your warped twisted mind.

 

Your are off your nut , your last 2 posts have been some of the highest class bullshit ive read on here.

[J-V]

Henderson was my man of the match and Enrique has been absolutely shite since the cup final.

[Phoenix]

Was it Kenny's idea to go British? This is crucial to know. The new UEFA rules about Nationality of team players kick in next season, with heavy fines for clubs who don't fulfil a quota, or so I've been told. Anyone please with more info on this?? Did Kenny get TOLD to buy British?? Owners wanting to get ahead of the game, so to speak? Surely Kenny does what the Board tells him to??

 

Ermm theres no rules coming in about the nationality of a player. Its about home grown players.To qualify as home grown, a player will have had to be registered for at least three seasons at an English or Welsh club between the ages of 16 and 21.These rules are already in force.

 

For example Charlie Adam doesnt qualify as home grown.