Stoke home matchthread

[mike23]

Can't say it really came as a surprise, especially after seeing our starting lineup. Seemed to just play straight into Stoke's hands by selecting all our grafters. Should have had a couple of penalties in the second half and the less said about that Kuyt miss near the end the better but overall it was nowhere near good enough. Depressing how we can win at Arsenal, Chelsea (twice) and Manchester City andyet constantly drop points against garbage teams at Anfield in the same season. The same players are doing well every week and it's the usual suspects letting the team down.

[TheDrowningMan]

The elephant in the room is that Kenny has assembled the most expensive 0-0 specialists in the world.

 

We are desperate for someone, anyone, to just put the ball in the back of the net. Not Andy though, we shouldn't judge him too soon and anyway he only really cost £5M when you work through the savings from Torres, Owen, Fowler and Barnes being a good player.

 

The thing is, he generally has the right idea about how the game should be played, which makes it all the more perplexing that he's filled the team with bland, lug-headed players rather than build on what was looking a pretty promising team come the end of last season. I can understand Carroll, fair enough, it was under strange circumstances, but we've now reached the point at which we know know he'll never, ever be good enough.

 

Downing, Adam and Henderson - Similarly, they've had a good run, but I think you'd have to be a bit off-kilter if you wouldn't take the money and run if, say, Sunderland told you that they'd take any of them off of your hands for five to seven million each. Perhaps Henderson might be worth retaining as back-up, perhaps, but he's so incalculably bland that he'll never develop into a player who would make the match day squad at Manchester United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal or Tottenham Hotspur. It's just inconceivable.

 

We need attacking nous, and whoever identified and pushed for the signing of more of our drab players, be that Kenny or Comolli, should probably be told to take a back seat while the other man assumes the lion's share of the responsibility for incoming players over the next couple of transfer windows.

 

Again, the most galling thing is that Kenny clearly has the right idea about the football we've been playing, but the majority of the new arrivals are simply not up to the task at hand. They're just not good enough football players. Keep this up, slip back further back and it would be genuinely impossible to do anything but hold your hands up and say 'fair enough' if the owners want to make a change in the summer, regardless of whether we win the Carling Cup or not.

 

Finishing fourth isn't and shouldn't be considered an absolute necessity, there's too much quality at the top of the table and too many variables. Putting in a respectable challenge, on the other hand, is. It has to be, or standards have slipped far enough at this football club to make the level of success we all crave irretrievable.

 

We can get out of this mess, Kenny can get us out of it, but he's fighting a losing battle if he fails to get us to address the basic, rudimentary problems that have seen us fritter away so many unnecessary points this season.

[ngogswilly]

Tactics were dreadful today. On paper it looked like we were set up to keep it on the deck, but then all of our attacks were coming from the wings and we had nobody in the box. We were basically playing a line-up that suits Carroll, without Carroll.

 

None of Henderson, Gerrard or Adam wanted to get in the box: they all look like they want to play facing the goal. That's not a problematic quality in a player, but when you have three of your five attacking players nowhere near the penalty area and you're chucking crosses in it just doesn't work at all.

 

Henderson looks way too shy. He plays the ball too quickly. He doesn't look like he wants to try and make anything happen, he hasn't developed the intelligence to change the tempo of the game, he can't play the holding role, and he's not getting in positions to score. He is miles away from justifying a place in the team and generally looks like he is nowhere near ready to step-up to what's required of him.

 

Our best attacking player today was Glen Johnson, by a mile. Our wing-back. That says everything you need to know about how we were set-up up top.

 

Carroll's cameo was horrific. It's becoming almost comical. He came over, fell over about 15 times, claimed about 5 penalties he didn't get when he should've been challenging for the ball, it was just terrible stuff.

 

Not that that was the worst thing. Our deliveries into the box have been fucking shocking all season. If our crosses aren't blocked, we never hit our man. Our men in the box seem bereft of all intelligent movement. We are really, really bad playing in off the wings, and yet that often seems to be our gameplan.

 

Good to see Stevie back and I thought Skrtel had a good game. Coates wasn't bad either. On the whole, though, it was an atrocious performance from us.

 

Yeah what you're saying is spot on. It just made no sense, the tactics were suited to having Andy on the field and he didnt come on till around the 60th minute. Then we did come on it was just a disgrace, he fell over time after time and like you say didn't even challenge for balls coming into the Box.

 

For all thats said about Adam, Downing, Henderson. I don't think their bad players. They just don't have it in them to be game changers.

 

We arn't playing bad football, I think that everytime I watch us. But its not good enough to say that and ignore how shite we are at creating and scoring chances.

[Redder Lurtz]

Well what a crock of pointless load of shite that was. It really says something when your best player on the pitch is a centre back against fucking STOKE.

 

Bewildering starting lineup, devoid of any creativity or ideas. Utter fucking garbage.

 

Sort it out Kenny.

[aRdja]

 

Only enrique, skrtel and johnson were any use today.

 

You're joking right?

 

His refusal to go to the byline, and insistence to cut in and cross with his left were not of any use.

 

Yeah Glen, don't worry about stretching their defence, just be an extra body in midfield, just in case..

[r.ryder23]

it's utterly heart breaking watching a club legend on the sidelines and knowing he isn't up to the job.

 

everyone wants him to succeed, i think everyone knows he won't.

 

we might never have 100 million to spend in a 6 month period again, that was our chance to fix the team with pace, width and creativity.

 

Kenny ignored the weaknesses in our team and went for what he thought was best.

 

We need a right winger, left winger, defensive mid with urgency and a striker.

 

same things we needed in dec 2010.

[BCM]

Loving the people jumping all over Kuyt after the goals he has given this club down the years, he's coming to the end of his career for christ sake.

 

Id be more worried about the millions we have spunked on Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson. We are a million miles away from a champions league place and rightly so.

[mni]

Loving the people jumping all over Kuyt after the goals he has given this club down the years, he's coming to the end of his career for christ sake.

 

Id be more worried about the millions we have spunked on Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson. We are a million miles away from a champions league place and rightly so.

 

This.

[Mr Nando]

This is just getting boring now, I'm not angered by draws at home, I just expect them now.

[Evil_Ways]

 

For all thats said about Adam, Downing, Henderson. I don't think their bad players. They just don't have it in them to be game changers.

 

We arn't playing bad football, I think that everytime I watch us. But its not good enough to say that and ignore how shite we are at creating and scoring chances.

 

You are exactly right. We play some good football, but we are lacking so much in the final third it's unreal.

We only have two players that are consistantly dangerous for us, and one is now out for 6 more games and the other has only started 3 games this season.

[FrenchEyeGlass]

We didn't win?

 

Hmm, I wonder why that is, after all we only started with NOBODY UPFRONT.

[Colonol]

Seriously worried now if Kenny's comments about not bringing someone in are accurate. His job is on the line come the end of the season as FSG will not put up with this mediocre shite and nor should they. I thought Downing was bought to supply Carroll yet they are never on the pitch the same time. 55m wasted and it just can't be defended by any sane person. There was no resale value in either and neither even justified the initial fee. Is it really true that Carroll is also on 80K? Who the fuck sanctioned that? If we have no money to buy anyone now it makes that 55m spend even more shocking as we are not City that can spunk money away for fun.

 

Enrique is the only good buy they have made with Henderson and Coates looking like they may have promise. I am willing to give Downing a chance as he has some sort of attributes that a professional footballer should have ie he is not as slow as me. I actually would fancy myself in a sprint against Carroll and Adam. How can they even be considered professional footballers. They would be considered unfit back when football started let alone with the culture change in the game.

 

Kuyt as a lone striker and then Carroll to help him. Is any team actually going to care about that.

 

It's obvious that Kuyt needs to be sold while he's still worth something and Carroll should also even though we are taking a massive hit on him. Buy one good player with that and we can still salvage something this season without massive investment. We really had a good chance of 4th and if we fail to get it then I'm afraid the buck stops with Kenny's failure to progress after his promising start. no-one in infallible. I still believe Kenny is the best man to progress the team. I just hope he is really up to it and it was not just my blind faith in the man.

[LFC 6 Times]

You are exactly right. We play some good football, but we are lacking so much in the final third it's unreal.

We only have two players that are consistantly dangerous for us, and one is now out for 6 more games and the other has only started 3 games this season.

 

4 more.

[lebron]

That was pretty bad wasn't it?

 

The blame has to be at Kenny's door for this one, even if some of the players are not of Liverpool quality, he simply has to make better decisions for games like this. Really strange starting line-up, but when it's not working, just change it at half-time!!

 

How all three CBs stayed on the field throughout the game only he can explain. Carragher should have been off at half time, same with Henderson (a case could be made for Downing and Kuyt too tbf) - allowing both Bellamy and Carroll to have a real go at it.

 

Really frustrated now - top 4 seems more unlikely by the day - especially given that we probably won't be able to rectify our deficiencies before the summer window...

 

We played righto into the hands of Stoke, and never really looked like scoring.

[Megadrive Man]

Loving the people jumping all over Kuyt after the goals he has given this club down the years, he's coming to the end of his career for christ sake.

 

Id be more worried about the millions we have spunked on Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson. We are a million miles away from a champions league place and rightly so.

 

I agree that he has been a good signing for us, but he needs to be moved on now.

 

We have got a very average squad of players. That's better than what we had last year which was a mix of average and awful players. We need 3 world class additions to take us back up towards the top again, Have we got the money or the persuasion to get them here is another matter.

[Beantown Red]

.

Stoke boss Tony Pulis on Liverpool's tactics and his side's 0-0 draw at Anfield: "When we got the Liverpool team it looked like they would play with three centre halves so we made some adjustments and in the short time it took for us to discuss it and transfer it to the pitch the lads did brilliantly. They are a very, very good side Liverpool, so it is a great result. Four points against Liverpool over the season and we are doing somersaults. The attacking side was a little disappointing for us because we got in good positions but gave the ball away."

[Redder Lurtz]

it's utterly heart breaking watching a club legend on the sidelines and knowing he isn't up to the job.

 

everyone wants him to succeed, i think everyone knows he won't.

 

we might never have 100 million to spend in a 6 month period again, that was our chance to fix the team with pace, width and creativity.

 

Kenny ignored the weaknesses in our team and went for what he thought was best.

 

We need a right winger, left winger, defensive mid with urgency and a striker.

 

same things we needed in dec 2010.

 

Seriously. Fuck off.

[neopulian]

Loving the people jumping all over Kuyt after the goals he has given this club down the years, he's coming to the end of his career for christ sake.

 

Id be more worried about the millions we have spunked on Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson. We are a million miles away from a champions league place and rightly so.

 

The scapegoating of Kuyt is pretty coward to be honest. He lacked confidence and match sharpness, his finishing touch was absent. But he made the right movements, knew where the ball should go, and most importantly he played the game with a clue.

 

Can't say the same about a big bloke whose main contributions were blocking two goal-bound shot from his own teammate and looked to be drown in his own self-pity.

[N'Gog I Trust]

Bring back Rafa asap, before more money is wasted on English dross.

[Guest LFD]

Loving the people jumping all over Kuyt after the goals he has given this club down the years, he's coming to the end of his career for christ sake.

 

Id be more worried about the millions we have spunked on Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson. We are a million miles away from a champions league place and rightly so.

 

Agree that Kuyt isn't the problem, as he clearly isn't the long term future, unlike the millions spent on those other players.

 

I know you say we are a million miles away from top four - but we aren't.

 

We have dropped points against a weak team at home, something we have been doing for 10, 15 years. Even when we came second under Benitez we drew at home to Stoke.

 

This isn't a new problem, we struggle to break down these teams consistantly. It is even harder without Suarez, who is the type of player (like Gerrard) who can unlock these teams with his quality.

 

Downing isn't good enough - we know this. Henderson isn't the real deal yet - we know he is a long term project. Carroll is not good enough - again we knew this before today. Kuyt also isn't good enough and has struggled all season.

 

But we can still come top four, we just need to get a finisher in January, get Suarez back and start playing our best players more - notibly Maxi... who should be playing and isn't even making the squad.

[Champ]

Can anyone registering with a number in their username be instantly banned please

[ngogswilly]

Agree that Kuyt isn't the problem, as he clearly isn't the long term future, unlike the millions spent on those other players.

 

I know you say we are a million miles away from top four - but we aren't.

 

We have dropped points against a weak team at home, something we have been doing for 10, 15 years. Even when we came second under Benitez we drew at home to Stoke.

 

This isn't a new problem, we struggle to break down these teams consistantly. It is even harder without Suarez, who is the type of player (like Gerrard) who can unlock these teams with his quality.

 

Downing isn't good enough - we know this. Henderson isn't the real deal yet - we know he is a long term project. Carroll is not good enough - again we knew this before today. Kuyt also isn't good enough and has struggled all season.

 

But we can still come top four, we just need to get a finisher in January, get Suarez back and start playing our best players more - notibly Maxi... who should be playing and isn't even making the squad.

 

Yep.

 

Everyone can see we're playing good football. We are far from a bad side.

 

We just need goals. I think we've had games this season where we've created lots of chances and games where we've failed badly to break stubborn teams down.

But the one constant is lack of goals, even when we create chances en masse we fail to score.

 

So its pretty clear whats needed.

[aRdja]

 

Stoke boss Tony Pulis on Liverpool's tactics and his side's 0-0 draw at Anfield: "When we got the Liverpool team it looked like they would play with three centre halves so we made some adjustments and in the short time it took for us to discuss it and transfer it to the pitch the lads did brilliantly. They are a very, very good side Liverpool, so it is a great result. Four points against Liverpool over the season and we are doing somersaults. The attacking side was a little disappointing for us because we got in good positions but gave the ball away."

 

Even he was perplexed by this. I wonder what Kenny's intentions were, playing 3 at the back..

[Red Banjo]

What i love is the fact people are so quick to come to the defence of Kuyt.

 

The midfield is not up to scratch, but they are steady. The defence is more than reliable. The goalkeeper is dependable. Its up front we are utterly, utterly woeful. Today the front man failed to score. Again. Yet because its Dirk - he is devoid of criticism. Carroll came on - so lets blame him. Its fucking bewildering.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

This is starting to become a crisis now. We managed to get ourselves back into the mix for 4th place and now we've shot ourselves in the foot the last two league games.

 

Two fucking absymal team selections from Kenny at City and today. Surely if you group together so many one trick ponies who couldn't score in a brothel with £100 in hand, you're asking for trouble?

 

Why after 14 days into January have we not brought in attacking options? Does Kenny not think we don't have problems scoring goals? Dirk is dogshit and Carroll isn't that far behind. Bellamy can only play one game a week and Luis is banned.

 

Where the fuck is Maxi? If he's injured, I've not seen anything.

 

If these problems aren't sorted out, we can forget fourth.