Jordan Henderson - what are you?

[Jairzinho]

I do. He was shite for ages. At the time it was because he was a "kid" and that Benitez was somehow training his attacking instincts out of him, and one day we'd see the "box to box" Brazilian Gerrard that so many people wanted him to be.

 

However, the club and - to his credit - the player himself realised that he was never going to be good enough or quick enough to play that role, and so over time he did what lots of poor players do; play as a specialist holding midfielder, where endeavour, tackling and passing the ball 5 yards are the basic minimum requirememts.

 

It's the easiest position in football to be a mediocre holding player, or defensive midfielder, and that is what he is. Mediocre. OK. Ordinary. And given how shit he was, for so long, improving himslef to that level is laudable.

 

Very few can elevate themselves to "great" in that position, but players like Souness, Vieira, Keane, Masher, Hamann, Makelele, Martinez, Cambiasso, Petit, Inler et al are special.

 

Lucas is not.

 

Being 20, from a different continent, switching from a number 10 to a holding midfielder, and playing usually instead of either Alonso or Mascherano is probably fair excuse isn't it? Certainly for the first season, or two. We had such an incredible central midfield that anyone that wasn't exceptional (which he clearly wasn't, nor was likely to be) seemed a big step down. You could argue he was played too much, but then the blame is with Benitez, similarly maybe Dalglish is playing Henderson too much.

 

Out of your list of players, Inler, Cambiasso and Martinez have never played in England. The role of being a holding midfielder here is quite different to in Spain or Italy. If the pace of football is slower, and your team generally has a lot of possession, the job is clearly easier. When its end to end, and cloggers like Karl Henry et al are booting you up in the air you'll make more glaring errors.

 

The rest of the list, maybe Mascherano aside, were a lot older than 24 when they peaked. Which is fairly normal considering their position. Probably also worth noting that no club in England currently has a midfielder like Souness, Keane or Viera (not sure Gerrard is that style anymore).

 

As someone who detests Henderson and Lucas, how do they compare for you?

[Mathewbet1]

He's neat and tidy, but does not do a lot. At the moment.

[WaltonRed]

Souness wasnt a Lucas position, he was box to box so shows what you know.

 

By putting Martinez in that list you've shown you true colours as a football manager whopper who doesnt like Henderson cos he's not fashionable or foreign enough for you

[Duff Man]

I'm not convinced either. Mainly because despite his attributes, of which there are some, he doesn't seem to try or do anything. He's often completely anonymous for the entire time he's on the pitch. I don't get it when people say he's inconsistent as he does the same thing every game; namely run about a bit and make simple passes. He needs to start making use of his techincal ability and also put his fucking foot in now and again otherwise there's no point playing him.

[JaseFace]

I do. He was shite for ages. At the time it was because he was a "kid" and that Benitez was somehow training his attacking instincts out of him, and one day we'd see the "box to box" Brazilian Gerrard that so many people wanted him to be.

 

However, the club and - to his credit - the player himself realised that he was never going to be good enough or quick enough to play that role, and so over time he did what lots of poor players do; play as a specialist holding midfielder, where endeavour, tackling and passing the ball 5 yards are the basic minimum requirememts.

 

It's the easiest position in football to be a mediocre holding player, or defensive midfielder, and that is what he is. Mediocre. OK. Ordinary. And given how shit he was, for so long, improving himslef to that level is laudable.

 

Very few can elevate themselves to "great" in that position, but players like Souness, Vieira, Keane, Masher, Hamann, Makelele, Martinez, Cambiasso, Petit, Inler et al are special.

 

Lucas is not.

 

Souness was a defensive midfielder? Now I've heard everything.

 

What a fucking spaz. Do you even know who it is that you're talking about?

[stringvest]

I like Lucas (who couldn't?), but I don't think he's a great player. He was not very good at all in his first few seasons, but has improved, most markedly under Dalglish. I like Henderson less as an individual, but I think he has it in him to be a better player than Lucas. He reads the game very well, he is more dynamic, and he has an excellent touch. If only he could learn to put the mirror away and concentrate on making more of an impact on the field, we might actually start getting our money's worth.

[Trucker Paddy]

Souness wasnt a Lucas position, he was box to box so shows what you know.

 

By putting Martinez in that list you've shown you true colours as a football manager whopper who doesnt like Henderson cos he's not fashionable or foreign enough for you

 

He has Souness Martinez Keane all who are not DM, and the funny bit, he's Petit and Viera who played there best years together and he probably couldn't tell the difference in a line up, sometimes you just gotta laugh

[Thomo123]

Some people forget what a step up it must be to join Liverpool.

 

Once he feels more settled and confident he'll flourish

 

So in the mean time we have to play him every wk until he shows some sortt of form?

 

He hasnt been inconsistent at all, just consistantly mediocre/poor.

[Thomo123]

I do. He was shite for ages. At the time it was because he was a "kid" and that Benitez was somehow training his attacking instincts out of him, and one day we'd see the "box to box" Brazilian Gerrard that so many people wanted him to be.

 

However, the club and - to his credit - the player himself realised that he was never going to be good enough or quick enough to play that role, and so over time he did what lots of poor players do; play as a specialist holding midfielder, where endeavour, tackling and passing the ball 5 yards are the basic minimum requirememts.

 

It's the easiest position in football to be a mediocre holding player, or defensive midfielder, and that is what he is. Mediocre. OK. Ordinary. And given how shit he was, for so long, improving himslef to that level is laudable.

 

Very few can elevate themselves to "great" in that position, but players like Souness, Vieira, Keane, Masher, Hamann, Makelele, Martinez, Cambiasso, Petit, Inler et al are special.

 

Lucas is not.

 

Thats absolute shite Brenden, Lucas is a million miles away from being a mediocre DM. His tackling has improved, he has great energy and positional awareness and his technique and passing have improved massively. You building a rod for your own back with that sort of clueless drivel

[Thomo123]

He's neat and tidy, but does not do a lot. At the moment.

 

I expect neat and tidy froma CB or GK, not from one of our attacking midfielders

[fowler9]

So in the mean time we have to play him every wk until he shows some sortt of form?

 

He hasnt been inconsistent at all, just consistantly mediocre/poor.

 

he just needs to grow into the team, has lots of ability just needs to make better decisions and express himself more

 

we'll reap the rewards for persevering with him now in a couple of years

[silverlining]

 

and the funny bit, he's Petit and Viera who played there best years together and he probably couldn't tell the difference in a line up, sometimes you just gotta laugh

 

Could you stop laughing long enough to post a coherent sentence?

[Scott_M]

You're an unfunny, smug, boring, patronising twat who is about 50% as clever as you wish you were.

 

Most ironic post of the year?

[silverlining]

Hmph. As if Shoepiss is funnier than me. As if I'm as boring as him.

[Guest LFD]

Henderson has talent and I have no problem with signing young players like him who should have a bright future. He isn't a world beater yet, far from it - but he is still very young.

 

I think the problem we have as fans is we have little middle ground, players are either 'world class' or shit on here. We had a topicon here the other day asking if Johnson was world class and some people said he wasn't good enough. Regardless of whether Johnson is world class (whatever that means) or not, he is still a very good player and good enough ton win titles and competitions with.

 

Rather does a team have XI world beaters in every position. Even when we last won the title, I wouldn't say Houghton was top class. But he kept possession, worked hard and complimented the stars - such as Barnes, Rush, Beardsley etc.

 

United have won title after title with players like Fletcher, O'Shea, Phil Neville, Brown, Carrick and numerous other players who aren't world beaters, but they contribute and be cogs in a good team. Arsenal had Parlour, Blackburn had Ripley / Wilcox, City might do it this season with Barry and Lescott. None of these players are top draw, but they can do an important job.

 

I think Henderson can do the same, while he does develop into a top player, we hope. To be honest we want to see Gerrard and Suarez on the ball most and creating, not the likes of Henderson or Downing. We probably do need one or tow more attacking stars on the level of Gerrard or Suarez, especially as Gerrard gets old and picks up more injuries. But players like Henderson can be part of a good team, especially if they keep possession and work as hard as he does. He is certainly not a liability on the ball and is worth progressing with.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

He's a talented young player, currently proving to be inconsistent in a side that is inconsistent.

 

His price tag had people expecting him to hit the ground running, but slotting into a stuttering side and taking the step up to a big club was always going to be a rocky road.

 

If every young talent was judged as harshly as some have judged him, players like Bale would have been offloaded very quickly.

[Guest LFD]

currently proving to be inconsistent in a side that is inconsistent.

 

I think he has been very consistent in every game this season.

 

He runs a lot, always wants the ball, makes the easy pass and presses the opposition when we don't have the ball.

 

But he has also shown in every game, that he needs to be more agressive when tackling as he stand off the opposition too much. He also needs to showfar more confidence in his ability and take some risks in the final third, especially if used as an attacking player.

 

I think that is why Silverlining has a problem with him and I have an issue with Downing - they seem scared to trying things in the final third, incase they lose the ball and get moans / groans from the crowd. Suarez loses the ball probably more than any other player in our team, but the fans don't care because he makes things happen more than other players as well.

 

The fans don't mind losing possession or the odd mistake as long as they are trying to be creative in the final third and win us a game - as eventually it will come off.

 

That's what makes players like Ronaldo and Suarez so special, they don't care if they lose possession or get groans from the crowd, the next time they get the ball they'll still take on an oppoenent and try and do something rather than the easy pass.

[Thomo123]

he just needs to grow into the team, has lots of ability just needs to make better decisions and express himself more

 

we'll reap the rewards for persevering with him now in a couple of years

 

We wont, he isnt that good believe me.

[Thomo123]

Henderson has talent and I have no problem with signing young players like him who should have a bright future. He isn't a world beater yet, far from it - but he is still very young.

 

I think the problem we have as fans is we have little middle ground, players are either 'world class' or shit on here. We had a topicon here the other day asking if Johnson was world class and some people said he wasn't good enough. Regardless of whether Johnson is world class (whatever that means) or not, he is still a very good player and good enough ton win titles and competitions with.

 

Rather does a team have XI world beaters in every position. Even when we last won the title, I wouldn't say Houghton was top class. But he kept possession, worked hard and complimented the stars - such as Barnes, Rush, Beardsley etc.

 

United have won title after title with players like Fletcher, O'Shea, Phil Neville, Brown, Carrick and numerous other players who aren't world beaters, but they contribute and be cogs in a good team. Arsenal had Parlour, Blackburn had Ripley / Wilcox, City might do it this season with Barry and Lescott. None of these players are top draw, but they can do an important job.

 

I think Henderson can do the same, while he does develop into a top player, we hope. To be honest we want to see Gerrard and Suarez on the ball most and creating, not the likes of Henderson or Downing. We probably do need one or tow more attacking stars on the level of Gerrard or Suarez, especially as Gerrard gets old and picks up more injuries. But players like Henderson can be part of a good team, especially if they keep possession and work as hard as he does. He is certainly not a liability on the ball and is worth progressing with.

 

Speaking for myself that wrong, i dont believe we need world beaters in every position, Istanbus stands as a testament to that. What i want is a player who plays an important part of our attack to actually do something positive. I want to see him move and make good runs on a regular basis (not one or two a game), i want to see him play clever one twos and show quickness of mind and a good footballing brain. Most of the time Henderson sees a good pass he doesnt have anywhere near enough quality to back it up.

 

Im not even sure this 'great technique' tag comes from neither. I havent seem him do anything to prove to me thats true.

[Thomo123]

I think he has been very consistent in every game this season.

 

He runs a lot, always wants the ball, makes the easy pass and presses the opposition when we don't have the ball.

 

But he has also shown in every game, that he needs to be more agressive when tackling as he stand off the opposition too much. He also needs to showfar more confidence in his ability and take some risks in the final third, especially if used as an attacking player.

 

I think that is why Silverlining has a problem with him and I have an issue with Downing - they seem scared to trying things in the final third, incase they lose the ball and get moans / groans from the crowd. Suarez loses the ball probably more than any other player in our team, but the fans don't care because he makes things happen more than other players as well.

 

The fans don't mind losing possession or the odd mistake as long as they are trying to be creative in the final third and win us a game - as eventually it will come off.

 

That's what makes players like Ronaldo and Suarez so special, they don't care if they lose possession or get groans from the crowd, the next time they get the ball they'll still take on an oppoenent and try and do something rather than the easy pass.

 

Hardly, although that confidence gives an extra dimension when they play. They are both just extremely talented footballers and the confidence they get having that ability is what makes them extra special

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Hmph. As if Shoepiss is funnier than me. As if I'm as boring as him.

 

I dunno you know Brendan, it's getting fucking close lately.

[Guest LFD]

Hardly, although that confidence gives an extra dimension when they play. They are both just extremely talented footballers and the confidence they get having that ability is what makes them extra special

 

They are not just brilliant footballers, but they have the right mentality, they don't go hiding or lose confidence if they make a mistake. They are fearless.

[silverlining]

I dunno you know Brendan, it's getting fucking close lately.

 

Yipes!

 

I can't help it. Readysalted just really, really, REALLY fucks me off.

 

And what makes it worse is that I sort of knew he would when we bought him. Everything I hate in a footballer.

[lebron]

Even if silver is massively wrong about lucas, he's unfortunately dead right about henderson. Let's just hope he doesn't post us too man prins/cups before the management discover what many of us knew before he came here; he's not good enough now - nor will he ever be.

[Mr T]

If we'd signed him for about £6M, like Lucas, then I'd be a lot more optimistic. I do think he has something about him that makes me think he might come good. However, for £20M I'd want to be a lot more confident.

 

I don't understand why Henderson attracts so much anger from you silverlining, when we have Downing in the squad. Now surely he is a player that warrants a humorous/offensive nickname attributed to him.