Liverpool Fans and Expectations

[ngogswilly]

Stolen shamefully from RAWK but thought it was worth bringing up since lately every defence of Roy Hodgson seems to involve the words Liverpool fans, expectations and unrealistic. What this guy has written nails it for me.

 

Because I'm sick of hearing from the press, other fans and even some of our own fans that we should all shut up and accept the mediocrity, that we shouldn't expect anything great anymore, that Roy is the right man and all he needs is 3 or 4 or 5 or however many years.

 

In Defence of Liverpool and their fans « The Post Match Pint

 

My name is Robbie, and I am not a Liverpool fan.

 

However, it has been hard to ignore the negative press that Liverpool have been receiving recently, both from regular fans and from football pundits. The general charge has been that Liverpool fans must get to grips with the reality of their situation, that they are no longer a top club and that they must alter their expectations accordingly. The horrendously protracted sale of the club did their image no favours either, and gave many a Liverpool detractor their moment in the sun.

 

I think that the notion of the ‘big club’ is as outdated as it is elitist, but one thing is striking when one talks to Liverpool supporters. For fans who supposedly believe they have a right to win everything in style, it is rather suprising to find out that actually, they don’t. They really don’t. Time and time again I have spoken to Liverpool fans, expecting a barrage of unrealistic predictions and lofty ambitions. And time and time again it doesn’t happen.

 

This set me thinking, and I have a theory on why Liverpool fans – and other fans of ‘big clubs’ who aren’t winning things – are misunderstood. Liverpool fans do not believe they have a right to success, they believe they have a right to expect a certain standard at their club – in the way the finances are run, in the public image, in the quality of players and in the style of play. Why shouldn’t followers of a club which has in the past epitomised professionalism, community spirit, local pride and sporting success expect it to continue? Why shouldn’t they demand high standards on and off the pitch? Why shouldn’t they herald what the club means to them? Why shouldn’t they be proud of their history?

 

They don’t want to see their club auctioned off, squabbled over and bargained for. They aren’t particularly happy with a coach who errs on the side of negativity, and more than anything they demand their club behaves on and off the pitch to a level akin to what they are used to and what they have become world famous for. There is, after all, a reason they are so internationally respected – that respect certainly wasn’t borne out of financial squabbling, profiteering and negativity on the pitch.

 

There are certain clubs that inspire civic pride and which define their supporters. Liverpool is one of them. So hey, lets stop this one dimensional criticism of the club and their supporters – I’d bet that the majority of them aren’t bothered about being Champions – they just want the class back.

[ManxRed]

Lot of sense spoken there, you could almost call it "The Liverpool Way" or something daft like that.

[Pidge]

Pretty much spot on. I just want every match played with the belief that we can win. Even if we don't.

[ngogswilly]

Pretty much spot on. I just want every match played with the belief that we can win. Even if we don't.

 

Exactly, we don't expect to win and conquer everything before us but we expect to attempt to win. We do not expect to lay down and die.

[Ynwa20]

Pretty much spot on. I just want every match played with the belief that we can win. Even if we don't.

 

Agreed.

[bigbak]

Only one of two teams can reailistically win the premiership.

Only one of 3 or 4 teams the Champions League.

One team team in Europe can play attractive football and sweep everybody to one side.

 

I'd rather play like Barcelona and never win a thing again than the crap we and most of the Premiership are doing.

 

We'd win something eventually playing that way.

[bigbak]

Only one of two teams can reailistically win the premiership.

Only one of 3 or 4 teams the Champions League.

One team team in Europe can play attractive football and sweep everybody to one side.

 

I'd rather play like Barcelona and never win a thing again than the crap we and most of the Premiership are doing.

 

We'd win something eventually playing that way.

[Guest PurpleNose]

I'd like to be able to look forward to us playing, again.

[magicrat]

Agree with what all that has been said. There is no fun in watching Liverpool play at the moment. Even when we do throw some caution to the wind as we did in the first 45 against the Spuds we miss our chances and then cock it up. Mostly its been diffcult to watch for the last two years. I too would like to be able to enjoy watching our games again without necessarily thinking we have any divine right to win.

[Randy Marsh]

I want to look forward to going the match again, instead of looking to every fixture filled with dread. I don't want to be surprised any more when we actually win, and I don't want to see a team who shits themselves when we play away against teams like Birmingham. I also don't want to be told that my expectations for any of the above are unrealistic.

[rednich85]

I'd rather play like Barcelona and never win a thing again than the crap we and most of the Premiership are doing.

.

 

Then you're an idiot. (No offence, mate)

 

Football is about winning.

 

Ask Arsenal what their beautiful, interlinking and free flowing football has won them.

 

You do realise Barca have 'off' days and they actually have to grind out results....its not always 5-0's against Madrid.

[bigbak]

Then you're an idiot. (No offence, mate)

 

Football is about winning.

 

Ask Arsenal what their beautiful, interlinking and free flowing football has won them.

 

You do realise Barca have 'off' days and they actually have to grind out results....its not always 5-0's against Madrid.

 

Seriously though, we're never going to win anything the way we're playing.

 

If think if you asked any Arsenal fan to choose between what we do and what they do, a lot would go for a European Cup win, but that's not going to happen for us for a long time.

 

I am aware Barcelona will have off days, but they've done alright in their last 12 games.

 

Racing Santander 0 - 3 Barcelona

Barcelona 0 - 2 Hercules

Barcelona 5 - 1 Panathinaikos

Atlético Madrid 1 - 2 Barcelona

Barcelona 1 - 0 Sporting Gijon

Athletic Bilbao 1 - 3 Barcelona

FK Rubin Kazan 1 - 1 Barcelona

Barcelona 1 - 1 Mallorca

Barcelona 2 - 1 Valencia

Barcelona 2 - 0 FC Copenhagen

Real Zaragoza 0 - 2 Barcelona

Ceuta 0 - 2 Barcelona

Barcelona 5 - 0 Sevilla FC

FC Copenhagen 1 - 1

Getafe 1 - 3 Barcelona

Barcelona 5 - 1 Ceuta

Barcelona 3 - 1 Villarreal

Almeria 0 - 8 Barcelona

Panathinaikos 0 - 3 Barcelona

Barcelona 5 - 0 Real Madrid

Osasuna 0 - 3 Barcelona

Barcelona 2 - 0 FK Rubin Kazan

Barcelona 5 - 0 Real Sociedad

Espanyol 1 - 5 Barcelona

[LFC Ultra]

Then you're an idiot. (No offence, mate)

 

Football is about winning.

 

Ask Arsenal what their beautiful, interlinking and free flowing football has won them.

 

You do realise Barca have 'off' days and they actually have to grind out results....its not always 5-0's against Madrid.

With respect mate you talk absolute shite! For you football might be about winning, for most of us it is about much more than that. The original post absolutely nailed what proper fans think. Your view has ‘fickle’ written all over it and fans like you who are spoon fed by the media because you don’t appear to be able to think for yourself, put managers and players under an intense pressure they could do without.

 

We are in a different era to the glory years when we played on a level playing field. Modern football is slowly but surely killing the game. Look back over the last 10 years and you will see that cash rich clubs have an almost 100% success rate when it comes to winning titles. Chelsea and Man Utd have dominated the premiership, Barca and Madrid La Liga, Bayern Munich the Bundesliga, Inter, AC and Juve the Scudetto. Can you not see a pattern developing?

 

I am resigned to the fact that LFC will probably never be consistent title contenders in the current climate, that’s life. I have hope but we have to have something to cling on to, it is part of being a fan. But……..as a Liverpool supporter I do have expectations. I expect Liverpool to play attacking football. Given our history and stature we have a duty to entertain win, lose or draw.

 

When we were beaten by Spurs the other week I discussed the match with other likeminded supporters. And do you know what? We never once moaned about the defeat or criticised the manager as we have done in previous games. Do you know why? Because we were so pleased with the style of football we played for the whole 90 minutes, it was great to watch and for the first time this season I didn’t mind paying for a ticket for a game. That is what football is about!

 

If I was a season ticket holder at Arsenal I would be delighted with the job Wenger is doing, the man is a genius, a complete one off. They play football the way it should be played and Gooners should be thankful for small mercies. They also have supporters like you and I cringe with embarrassment when I hear them criticise Wenger. Football will and should always win the day, irrelevant of silverware. They will have more good days than bad days for sure.

[rednich85]

With respect mate you talk absolute shite! For you football might be about winning, for most of us it is about much more than that.

 

Ok. Just so I have this right, you think how the game is played is more important than winning?

 

I appreciate the art of football as much as anyone but I understand the main aim of the game is scoring more goals than the other team. By hook or by crook.

 

Is that absolute shite?

 

If you think it is, you are a mong.

 

The original post absolutely nailed what proper fans think. Your view has ‘fickle’ written all over it and fans like you who are spoon fed by the media because you don’t appear to be able to think for yourself, put managers and players under an intense pressure they could do without.

 

I am spoon fed by the media? Are you fucking serious? Again, you read one post of mine and assume I am a media fed, modern football fickle merchant?

 

Get off your soap box and pull your head out of your arse you idiot.

 

Preaching like some bastion of the great game. Do one.

 

We are in a different era to the glory years when we played on a level playing field. Modern football is slowly but surely killing the game. Look back over the last 10 years and you will see that cash rich clubs have an almost 100% success rate when it comes to winning titles. Chelsea and Man Utd have dominated the premiership, Barca and Madrid La Liga, Bayern Munich the Bundesliga, Inter, AC and Juve the Scudetto. Can you not see a pattern developing?

 

Groundbreaking stuff. You should write a thesis.

 

The rich clubs tend to be the most successful? Well fuck me sideways. What a revelation!?!

 

I am resigned to the fact that LFC will probably never be consistent title contenders in the current climate, that’s life. I have hope but we have to have something to cling on to, it is part of being a fan.

 

Getting on my soap box, just for a second, being a football fan is not about having something to 'cling to'. You're in it for the long haul. Win, lose or draw.

 

But……..as a Liverpool supporter I do have expectations. I expect Liverpool to play attacking football. Given our history and stature we have a duty to entertain win, lose or draw.

 

Because of our history and stature we have a duty to entertain...win lose or draw? I can tell you now if we went out every week to entertain, you'll be seeing more defeats/loses. You want entertained? Watch a fucking film. Bit of X Factor. Whatever floats your boat.

 

When we were beaten by Spurs the other week I discussed the match with other likeminded supporters. And do you know what? We never once moaned about the defeat or criticised the manager as we have done in previous games. Do you know why? Because we were so pleased with the style of football we played for the whole 90 minutes, it was great to watch and for the first time this season I didn’t mind paying for a ticket for a game. That is what football is about!

 

Oh dear. You say I was the media fed fickle fan?

 

4-4-2, man to man marking, Sit deep, hit them on the break. Concede a goal due to diabolical defending, equalise, miss some great chances....decide to hold out for a draw, retreat 20 yards....concede a late winner due to...diabolical defending. Glad you enjoyed it!

 

Thats your idea of football that is great to watch!! hahaha fucking hell. I'm sorry I even replied to you now.

 

If I was a season ticket holder at Arsenal I would be delighted with the job Wenger is doing, the man is a genius, a complete one off. They play football the way it should be played and Gooners should be thankful for small mercies.

 

Yeah, they should be thankful. Wenger has done a great job and Arsenal play some scintilating stuff....answer me this...what the fuck have they won recently? Exactly. I'm sure gunners fans are content....safe in the knowledge they......errrr.....play nice football.

 

Wenger's been doing that good a job, every fucking idiot and his dog can see that when Lehmann left he needed replacing. at least three years later they are still juggling sub standard goalkeepers on a game to game basis.....genius.

 

 

They also have supporters like you and I cringe with embarrassment when I hear them criticise Wenger. Football will and should always win the day, irrelevant of silverware. They will have more good days than bad days for sure.

 

Supporters like me?!? hahaha fucking have a word with yourself you clueless fucking biff.

 

Football should always win the day?? hahaha thats some homo shit right there.

 

I'm astounded you had the fucking nerve to have a pop at me then go on to spout some serious unmitigated fucking steaming horse shite in response.

 

Your views seem like you've been evesdropping on conversations in the boozer. 'Media fed'? Nah. Have a perfectly working brain and don't watch any sort of sky coverage bar the actual match.

 

You think Shanks or Bob would have sent a side out to play nice football with no consideration of the result?

 

Mong.

[Dan]

of course football is about winning....if we won most of our games all season in a shite fashion but still won the league would you say ''shite because we didnt play well''.........??? of course not...football is a sport,that means there has to be a winner come season's end,or competition's end.of course if we played great along the way,brilliant.but at the end of the day putting three points on the board is more important.....you dont get a trophy for being runner up mate

[Hades]

Ask Arsenal what their beautiful, interlinking and free flowing football has won them.

 

3 Premier Leagues

4 FA Cups

---------------

5 Premier League 2nd places

2 European finals

13 seasons unbroken in the top 4 all the while building a massive stadium and turning a profit in the transfer market.

 

 

Football didn't begin in 2005, nor did it begin in 1998, but let's have some perspective eh?

[Jose Jones]

3 Premier Leagues

4 FA Cups

---------------

5 Premier League 2nd places

2 European finals

13 seasons unbroken in the top 4 all the while building a massive stadium and turning a profit in the transfer market.

 

 

Football didn't begin in 2005, nor did it begin in 1998, but let's have some perspective eh?

 

1 FA Cup and 1 Carling Cup in the last 7 years is it?

Something like that.

[bigbak]

of course football is about winning....if we won most of our games all season in a shite fashion but still won the league would you say ''shite because we didnt play well''.........??? of course not...football is a sport,that means there has to be a winner come season's end,or competition's end.of course if we played great along the way,brilliant.but at the end of the day putting three points on the board is more important.....you dont get a trophy for being runner up mate

 

You'd win the argument if we were top of the league playing the crap we are at the moment.

 

I'm a fickle fan. I've come to realise that we haven't got the money to buy the players to compete anymore. I do think we have some players that would do better if they were allowed to attack.

 

I'd like to not have to worry about playing Blackpool away.

[rednich85]

3 Premier Leagues

4 FA Cups

---------------

5 Premier League 2nd places

2 European finals

13 seasons unbroken in the top 4 all the while building a massive stadium and turning a profit in the transfer market.

 

 

Football didn't begin in 2005, nor did it begin in 1998, but let's have some perspective eh?

 

 

I meant to add the word "recently". Hows that for perspective, eh?

[Dan]

You'd win the argument if we were top of the league playing the crap we are at the moment.

 

I'm a fickle fan.I've come to realise that we haven't got the money to buy the players to compete anymore. I do think we have some players that would do better if they were allowed to attack.

 

I'd like to not have to worry about playing Blackpool away.

 

hold on,how do you know how much money we have or dont have??

we were bought by a company worth 2 or 3 billion dollars,and if you include all its shareholders wealth that runs into nearly 100billion...

wether they want to spend or not,we dont know...looking at NESV,over the past 8 years they have pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into the redsox..who says they wont do the same here??

on the main issue,your right...of course we need to play a more attractive style of football to win games,im not disagreeing with that.To be honest though i really dont give a fuck once we win the games..look at the 08/09 season..we played some great football that year,united played shit for most of the season,scoring jammy last minute goals and the likes....but yet,they won the league...do you see my point?

[Istvan Kozma]

We've been playing some good stuff recently. It's no consolation when we lose though, not to me. If we play boring football and win, I still enjoy watching the match as we won. I would rather open attacking football though, by a million miles. If we play boring stuff and lose then the managers due to be under pressure a lot quicker than if we play exciting football.

[ChicagoRed]

Being true to your own high ideals (the Liverpool Way) and winning are inseparable. That's why it was so important to get rid of Hicks and Gillett. Every major club has a set of values that is the glue that holds them together. Ours was nearly torn apart but there is still a lot of scar tissue around and some scepticism. It's what the club believes in, what the fans believe in, what the players believe in that is the road map for the future. It determines every decision. Values were the reason we are the most decorated club in English history and values will be the reason and the way we'll get back. Our way. The Liverpool Way!

[WaltonRed]

I'll take a loss if we've gone for a win but I wont accept sub standard bollocks

[ngogswilly]

Some good points being raised. But I think the key thing for me is that I'm sick and tired of being told we need to lower expectations and accept we're not a big club anymore.

 

I don't expect us to win the league for a good few years the ways things have gone. It will take alot of work to get us back up there.But I do expect us to be better than we have under Hodgson and I expect us to be a team that other teams will be scared to play. The way we are these days nobody fears us. We sit back as if we expect to lose and yep thats exactly what happens.

 

I just refuse to accept that we have to accept being mid table nobodys but everytime I open a paper these days all I see is something along the lines of "Those pesky Liverpool fans need to realise they are shite and Hodgson needs years to make them anything good again and the only reason they are whining is because they arn't top of the table".

 

Bullshit.

[bigbak]

hold on,how do you know how much money we have or dont have??

we were bought by a company worth 2 or 3 billion dollars,and if you include all its shareholders wealth that runs into nearly 100billion...

wether they want to spend or not,we dont know...looking at NESV,over the past 8 years they have pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into the redsox..who says they wont do the same here??

on the main issue,your right...of course we need to play a more attractive style of football to win games,im not disagreeing with that.To be honest though i really dont give a fuck once we win the games..look at the 08/09 season..we played some great football that year,united played shit for most of the season,scoring jammy last minute goals and the likes....but yet,they won the league...do you see my point?

 

I don't disagree with your point, but I just have a different overall opinion.

 

In my opinion I can't see us winning anything worthwhile for a number of years so I'd rather see entertaining football.

 

And as for transfer funds. No idea. I doubt Roy really knows. No worthwhile players will be around in January.

 

The club is still an investment to the new owners. It will have to turn a profit in the medium term.