Israel president Shimon Peres accuses Britain of pro-Arab bias

[Moo]

No, I really don't. I think it actually has fuck all to do with religion and much more to do with other factors. It has been my contention for a long time that, throughout history, people rarely act because of religion but because of other reasons. Some people are brainwashed by religious leaders with other motivations, but it amounts to the same thing; brainwashing happens in many different disciplines, as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes you just get money/power hungry fuckers who want their will to be enforced on others. It doesn't matter if it's the Romans or Al Qaeda, they're all really just doing it for their own motives. For me, blaming religion lets the little cunts off the hook.

Absolutely, and in the case of war or invasion, it's usually a fight for land basically.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Absolutely, and in the case of war or invasion, it's usually a fight for land basically.

Yeah, man. Land, political influence in a region, oil, military influence... those sorts of things are usually underlying. Then, of course, there's plain ol' hatred. I don't normally quote 'gorgeous' George Galloway - with good reason - but those planes that flew into the buildings in 911 didn't come out of a clear blue sky then emerged from a swamp of bitterness and hatred. It wasn't because the Qur'an told them to do so (this is where somebody brings up a quote from the Qur'an about infidels, yadda, yadda, yadda).

[Stu Monty]

Yeah, man. Land, political influence in a region, oil, military influence... those sorts of things are usually underlying. Then, of course, there's plain ol' hatred. I don't normally quote 'gorgeous' George Galloway - with good reason - but those planes that flew into the buildings in 911 didn't come out of a clear blue sky then emerged from a swamp of bitterness and hatred. It wasn't because the Qur'an told them to do so (this is where somebody brings up a quote from the Qur'an about infidels, yadda, yadda, yadda).

 

Without wanting to cross the streams, ain't much else available that can get into a man's brain and sabotage his thinking process from an early age as well as religion.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Without wanting to cross the streams, ain't much else available that can get into a man's brain and sabotage his thinking process from an early age as well as religion.

Politics? Indoctrination works pretty well whether it's politics or religion - be it peaceful and loving or hateful. I don't know, I think it's just too easy to say 'religion'. My best mate is religious, and whilst I'm quite ardently not, the guy isn't a basket case. He's not a basket case because he was raised the same way I was. Probably similar to how you were. He wouldn't take an obscure passage and blow himself up from it, but some daft cunt elsewhere in the world will. Same religion. It's just evil people finding a channel for their evil. Had certain serial killers been born elsewhere that might have been the way they channeled it.

 

That's not a defence of religion - I think organised religion is a major pain in the arse for the most part - it's a case that proper cunts are hiding behind their 'just cause'. This thread, for example, is a good example of it not actually being about religion. It's much deeper than that. Zionism doesn't equate to religious (or even ethnic) Judaism/Jewisness, but suddenly if you oppose it you're an anti-semite and if you deny that any state should be based on religious or ethnic identity, you're anti-semitic. It's some gnarly old cunts being cunts.

[Anny Road]

Was taught in university it is all women's fault. Men are essentially wanting to procreate with as many women as possible. Women want power so men will kill and dominate each other to get it.

Bitches

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Did anybody get on the Israeli propagandabot on C4 news then?

 

They've moved on from the tunnels and human shields line now and are claiming that Hamas have toasters and fridge freezers which are booby trapped in case the IDF enter the property.

 

It's hilarious. All of it entirely unsubstantiated.

 

I suppose the toaster risk justifies the indiscriminate bombing of residential property.

[Jairzinho]

Politics? Indoctrination works pretty well whether it's politics or religion - be it peaceful and loving or hateful. I don't know, I think it's just too easy to say 'religion'. My best mate is religious, and whilst I'm quite ardently not, the guy isn't a basket case. He's not a basket case because he was raised the same way I was. Probably similar to how you were. He wouldn't take an obscure passage and blow himself up from it, but some daft cunt elsewhere in the world will. Same religion. It's just evil people finding a channel for their evil. Had certain serial killers been born elsewhere that might have been the way they channeled it.

 

That's not a defence of religion - I think organised religion is a major pain in the arse for the most part - it's a case that proper cunts are hiding behind their 'just cause'. This thread, for example, is a good example of it not actually being about religion. It's much deeper than that. Zionism doesn't equate to religious (or even ethnic) Judaism/Jewisness, but suddenly if you oppose it you're an anti-semite and if you deny that any state should be based on religious or ethnic identity, you're anti-semitic. It's some gnarly old cunts being cunts.

 

Religion also provides a very simple answer/outlet for those in desperation. I could attempt to start a radical religious movement in my town, but everyone would just politely decline. There isn't that void to be filled.

 

The influence of radical religious ideas/ideals would diminish greatly if we lived in a world that was far more economically just. You could, obviously, argue that it would be a bit easier to achieve without the former.

[Strontium]

1 - Ah ok. Fair enough if you were limiting it to "civilised" democratic nations. I thought the U.S. and Israel were civil democratic nations though? Hard to tell from their behaviour and policies in relation to other countries and cultures.

Democratic nations don't go to war with other democracies, of course.

 

I'm sure you can find plenty of people in the US and Israel who have fled from persecution in other countries, they'd be ideal candidates if you're looking for people to ask about civilisation.

 

2 - I know nothing of your ethnic background and to be honest I don't care. You're anti arab and more specifically anti muslim. You support Zionist criminals. I've decided add those things together as is my will, and conclude the IDF are your mates. May you remain content to enjoy the murder of those innocent civilians. As is your right.

I have nothing whatsoever against Arabs, so that is a thoroughly baseless comment.

 

So far as I am concerned, Arabs and Jews are kith and kin, and I reject the artifical divisions that have been put up between them, which are predominantly rooted in religion.

 

Indeed, I think it's great that there's at least one country in the Middle East where Arab citizens can enjoy the human rights and freedoms we take for granted in the West.

 

I am against all organised religions, they are a pox on the world. This is not the same thing as being "anti Muslim". Once again, the baseless smear rears its ugly pig head.

 

So given that you are starting from concocted premises, it is no wonder that your conclusion is entirely wrong, but I guess not all of us can be blessed with above average intelligence, so you have my sympathies.

 

I certainly won't enjoy anyone's death, as anyone who has actually bothered to read the things I've written will know.

 

So, to sum up, go fuck yourself.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Religion also provides a very simple answer/outlet for those in desperation. I could attempt to start a radical religious movement in my town, but everyone would just politely decline. There isn't that void to be filled.

 

The influence of radical religious ideas/ideals would diminish greatly if we lived in a world that was far more economically just. You could, obviously, argue that it would be a bit easier to achieve without the former.

Yeah, I totally agree.

[Stu Monty]

Democratic nations don't go to war with other democracies, of course.

 

Mainly they just stage coups and kill off or depose the democratically elected leader. Or fund someone to go to war for them.

 

Misguided post, the irony of it being in this thread is clearly lost on you.

[Strontium]

I'm curious when the last coup to depose a democratically elected leader was.

 

I admit I see no irony in my post.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

I might be in the minority here, but I don't think the current slaughter is anything to do with religion, per se.

 

It's obviously hard to get away from it, what with Israel, the Jewish state, murdering loads of Muslims.

 

But, I think the underlying driving force in both government circles and the general public is more one of nationalism and a little hint of racism.

 

I've seen a few tweets which have suggested that, and I think the adoption of football songs while waving the Star of David flag concocts an image of the old school, racist footie hooligan.

[Kobayashi Maru]

Let's be very clear, the Israeli government has no intention of peace unless that involves them claiming the west bank and the Gaza strip.

 

Them becoming more of an international pariah is probably Palestine's best hope of stopping the oppression.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/16/netanyahu-in-2001-america_n_649427.html

 

A newly released video of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu could add some additional strain to the sometimes tense relationship between him and President Obama.

In the video, which is from 2001, Netanyahu -- who reportedly did not know his speech was being recorded -- speaks frankly in Hebrew about relations with the Clinton White House and the peace process.

As noted in Haaretz, Netanyahu seems to boast of his knowledge of the US by saying, "I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won't get in their way."

He also boasts of manipulating the U.S. in the ongoing peace process, as the Washington Post points out:

 

 

The video was broadcast on a TV program called "This Week With Miki Rosenthal" titled "The Real (And Deceitful) Face of Benjamin Netanyahu." In Israel's Haaretz newspaper, columnist Gideon Levy said of the video:"They asked me before the election if I'd honor [the Oslo accords]," he said. "I said I would, but ... I'm going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the '67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I'm concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue."

 

 

 These remarks are profoundly depressing. They bear out all of our fears and suspicions: that the government of Israel is led by a man who doesn't believe the Palestinians and doesn't believe in the chance of an agreement with them, who thinks that Washington is in his pocket and that he can pull the wool over its eyes. There's no point in talking about Netanyahu's impossible rightist coalition as an obstacle to progress. From now on, just say that Netanyahu doesn't want it.

[Kobayashi Maru]

 

Not sure if this will embed.

[Stu Monty]

I'm curious when the last coup to depose a democratically elected leader was.

 

I admit I see no irony in my post.

Nah, you're not curious. As we've established.

 

Unless you're denying it ever happens then what exactly was your point?

 

For irony, see Israel's behaviour after the Palestinian elections.

[Stu Monty]

Some reading about wars between democracies:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_between_democracies

[ZonkoVille77]

Democratic nations don't go to war with other democracies, of course.

 

I have nothing whatsoever against Arabs, so that is a thoroughly baseless comment.

 

I am against all organised religions, they are a pox on the world. This is not the same thing as being "anti Muslim".

 

So, to sum up, go fuck yourself.

1. democratic nations don't go to war with each other?! That's some madness in a thread full of madness. Maybe a topic for another thread.

 

2. Ok fair enough, maybe not all Arabs. just those who stand up to Israel?

 

3. Yes you've said you're against all religions. Fair play, it does more harm than good I'd agree. But you only need to go back to page 12/13 of this thread to show your anti - Muslim stance. Don't do non violence was it???

 

4. Thanks I might do so. Safe in the knowledge that whatever flows out of my rectum will be far more mentally advanced than your pitiful self.

 

I hate resorting to insults. But you bring the worst out in a large amount of people on here by resorting to insult when you're arguments fail and then crying when you're insulted in response. The act of a child.

[Anubis]

I'm curious when the last coup to depose a democratically elected leader was.

 

Ukraine 2014 springs immediately to mind.

[Stu Monty]

Ukraine 2014 springs immediately to mind.

 

Pfft. If we're going to call every vote taken to give a PM the boot that gets 100% backing due to there definitely not being neo-nazis looking menacingly at people as they vote then YES, Ukraine might spring to mind.

 

Can I just clarify, we're counting the US as a democracy here right? It's just that at the time some of these possible shenanigans were going on they weren't technically a democratically elected administration, so it's a tricky one.

[aRdja]

I'm curious when the last coup to depose a democratically elected leader was.

 

I admit I see no irony in my post.

Thailand a couple of months ago.

[Malarkey]

I'm curious when the last coup to depose a democratically elected leader was.

 

I admit I see no irony in my post.

 

The Yanks tried to topple Chavez of Venezuela a good few times. And failed.

[Strontium]

Nah, you're not curious. As we've established.

 

Unless you're denying it ever happens then what exactly was your point?

 

For irony, see Israel's behaviour after the Palestinian elections.

I am curious, which is why I've asked you to name some countries on numerous occasions.

 

Some reading about wars between democracies:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_between_democracies

Some rather loose definitions of democracies there. Russia, indeed.

 

Ukraine 2014 springs immediately to mind.

I suppose Yanukovych is a democrat in the same sense that Hitler was.

[Red Phoenix]

Mike Prysner ‏@MikePrysner

 

87% of people in #Israel uncritically support the massacre in #Gaza. It's not an "extremist government," it's an extremist population.

 

9:28 AM - 28 Jul 2014

 

 

Elvie Mackintosh ‏@elvie_ Jul 28

@MikePrysner I pray this is just a lie from their government.

 

Kevin Martin ‏@xufn Jul 28

@MikePrysner Well they get 24/7 news that's so biased it makes @FoxNews actually look fair and balanced. People are as dumb as their media

[Stu Monty]

I am curious, which is why I've asked you to name some countries on numerous occasions.

 

 

Some rather loose definitions of democracies there. Russia, indeed.

 

 

I suppose Yanukovych is a democrat in the same sense that Hitler was.

 

Wow. Insatiable curiosity there. Are you planning on getting all your information of subjects you are curious about from blokes on the internet? What was the last decent book you read on the subject Dog?

 

Still waiting for what your point was when you tried to pull me up?

[Anubis]

I suppose Yanukovych is a democrat in the same sense that Hitler was.

 

Oh please. He was the democratically elected head of state who was ousted and forced to flee by violence headed by right wing figures who's views had more in common with Hitler than Yanukovych could ever hope to have. Figures who were backed to the hilt and encouraged by Western governments intent on introducing Ukraine to the delights of the IMF and World Bank.

 

Even the vote to remove him by the Ukranian Parliament was constitutionally unlawful.

 

The more cynical among us might think that those same Western governments may have calculated on Russia annexing Crimea to protect it's military instillations, and a bit of trouble with the Eastern Ukranian pro-Russian peoples. Conflict equals a nice trade in weapons, damaged infrastructure that needs to be repaired, and deeper borrowing from their new friends.