Israel president Shimon Peres accuses Britain of pro-Arab bias

[Dougie Do'ins]

Does it actually matter who the president is?

Obviously not, but it should do.

 

There's talk of him being sued for overstepping his 'powers' isn't there ?

[lifetime fan]

US rushing through legislation to restock Israeli missiles.

[Jairzinho]

Obviously not, but it should do.

 

There's talk of him being sued for overstepping his 'powers' isn't there ?

 

Yeah saw that. Although I can't be doing with following their political system, its even more of a charade than ours. We don't really have democracy in any meaningful sense in the UK, its much worse there.

[Dougie Do'ins]

US rushing through legislation to restock Israeli missiles.

Yes but they're for Iron Dome so it's OK. 

[lifetime fan]

Yes but they're for Iron Dome so it's OK.

 

Perfectly acceptable.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Yeah saw that. Although I can't be doing with following their political system, its even more of a charade than ours. We don't really have democracy in any meaningful sense in the UK, its much worse there.

Most Americans think the opposite. Mind most Americans probably don't know Palestine exists. Saying that, wont be long before it doesn't.

[Jairzinho]

Its fucking appalling.

 

I just can't get my head around people supporting Israel. Or even those that seem to think "both sides are equally in the wrong".

[ZonkoVille77]

That link that was posted earlier with Russell Brand shows exactly what the world is up against in convincing american people how wrong this is. They are brainwashed on a level that the nazis could only dream of. despicable.

 

 

I work in IT and we have a few firewalls and contacts with Checkpoint who are an Israeli company (nerd alert). I've made a decision to get rid of them, the contracts for support and be done with putting any money into that country. It's small fry but at least my conscience is clear. It will take me a few weeks to do so and a few plane journeys but fuck it. Fuck those murdering bastards.

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Its fucking appalling.

 

I just can't get my head around people supporting Israel. Or even those that seem to think "both sides are equally in the wrong".

I've got a family member on Facebook "standing by Israel" because "the bible commands" her to.

 

I pointed out that no proper Christian could possibly stand by a nation that exhibits such un-Christian values, and asked how her support for them sat with the "thou shall not kill" part of the bible.

 

The response was a simple "the bible days it's their land".

 

I think a lot of the Israel support in the UK is anything but support. There's definitely a degree of hijacking by the right wing who've looked not a jot beyond one side being "those muzzies", so they've automatically taken the side of Israel for that reason alone.

 

People on Facebook with names like Dazza "English and Proud" Smith and Tezza "No Surrender" Jones etc etc. I even seen one on the Channel 4 News comments page whose middle name was, apparently "bacon eater".

[Jairzinho]

I've got a family member on Facebook "standing by Israel" because "the bible commands" her to.

 

I pointed out that no proper Christian could possibly stand by a nation that exhibits such un-Christian values, and asked how her support for them sat with the "thou shall not kill" part of the bible.

 

The response was a simple "the bible days it's their land".

 

I think a lot of the Israel support in the UK is anything but support. There's definitely a degree of hijacking by the right wing who've looked not a jot beyond one side being "those muzzies", so they've automatically taken the side of Israel for that reason alone.

 

People on Facebook with names like Dazza "English and Proud" Smith and Tezza "No Surrender" Jones etc etc. I even seen one on the Channel 4 News comments page whose middle name was, apparently "bacon eater".

 

Yes, much of the support is out of ignorance. Either Muslim hating from the sort of EDL cunts that you describe, or the people that simply have no interest in what is happening outside of this country, often no interest in what's happening outside of their group of friends and perhaps a small slice of celeb land. And they are many. When Mandela died, a friend of a friend on Facebook asked who he was. A girl in her early 20s, who had no idea who Nelson Mandela was. Then there are many reasonably intelligent people that unfortunately take the likes of the BBC at face value. "They've always been quite neutral haven't they? Respected around the world? Well I've only got five minutes to learn about this Middle East stuff so I'll see what they've got to say".

 

Israel, and many people's apathy towards their actions is incredibly depressing. Such a lack of humanity.

[lifetime fan]

Yes, much of the support is out of ignorance. Either Muslim hating from the sort of EDL cunts that you describe, or the people that simply have no interest in what is happening outside of this country, often no interest in what's happening outside of their group of friends and perhaps a small slice of celeb land. And they are many. When Mandela died, a friend of a friend on Facebook asked who he was. A girl in her early 20s, who had no idea who Nelson Mandela was. Then there are many reasonably intelligent people that unfortunately take the likes of the BBC at face value. "They've always been quite neutral haven't they? Respected around the world? Well I've only got five minutes to learn about this Middle East stuff so I'll see what they've got to say".

 

Israel, and many people's apathy towards their actions is incredibly depressing. Such a lack of humanity.

It makes the beeb coverage of the situation even more wicked.

 

And I'm as big a beeb fan as there is.

[Strontium]

Well I think we've already disagreed on the idea that in a battle where one side is massively more powerful, and in this case is as close to infinitely more powerful as makes any difference, that the same moral rules apply to both sides. I also think you would come to my side of the fence a lot more if you actually had a boot on your throat and weren't just talking moral and legal hypotheticals.

 

If I was a resident of Gaza I would be doing what I could to get rid of Hamas. Foreign governments not caring whether you live or die is one thing; your own government quite another.

 

Of course, if I was a resident of Gaza, I wouldn't have the same perspective on the world. It's easy to be rational when you are detached from a situation.

 

I think you're being deliberately generous to the media by trying to make out the wording they are using is based on legitimacy. If you and I can both look at those words and know that they carry very loaded meaning then so do journalists. Many will chose words to deliberately because they are looking to influence opinion, not to pass information.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that biases influence journalism. That doesn't mean that terminology is inaccurate, of course. The BBC is unlikely to start referring to Hamas as freedom fighters, for instance, as the EU's position is that Hamas is an illegal and militant terrorist group.

 

As I say, if you can come up with how news of a sprained ankle gets on the BBC without a wider agenda being pushed then I'm all ears. I think to claim that legitimacy drives the language used is pretty disingenuous as you're bright enough to be aware of the differential in voice and media influence on this issue.

Sorry, I haven't seen the sprained ankle story.

[Strontium]

I have some to sell to anyone who thinks that Israel wants a democratic or progressive Palestinian leadership instead of Hamas.

 

When you have no intention of peace then supporting a militant branch of your enemy, against a more secular, less militant branch, is quite a cute move.

 

Israel is motivated by fear. I think they would like a democratic, peaceful Palestine, they just don't believe for one second that such a thing is possible. Don't know where they could possibly have got that idea...

 

Until it stops illegally occupying, and accumulating, land then no, it has no rights at all with regard to the reaction.

So Israel should tolerate rocket attacks from Gaza killing and terrorising its citizens until it has demolished all its settlements in the West Bank, lifted the blockade and so on and so forth? Is that really what you are saying?

 

Can't get my head round that kind of thinking if that's what you mean.

[Strontium]

Have kept off this thread because views are so entrenched, but I have to disagree with SD saying Israel has the right to defend itself against militants. If it was I'd understand, but it's not interested in limiting the strikes to combatants, not in the slightest.

 

It's akin to the British going after the IRA by shelling civilian homes and bombing schools in Derry run by the UN.

 

There are rules to war.

 

Yes, there are rules, one of which is: "Don't use human shields".

 

Assuming for one kerrrazy moment that we all agree that a sovereign democracy has the absolute legal right to use force to defend itself against militant extremists attacking it from outside its borders, how would you suggest that Israel deal with rocket attacks which come from crowded population centres?

 

There seems to be an idea floating round that Israeli civilian casualties are a price worth paying if the response will cause Palestinian civilian casualties. Unsurprisingly, the Israelis don't agree.

[Arl arse]

Evil twats.

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtbF0fTCQAENjCf.jpg

[Red Phoenix]

 

Let's carry on obsessing about Hamas rockets though.

[stringvest]

That link that was posted earlier with Russell Brand shows exactly what the world is up against in convincing american people how wrong this is. They are brainwashed on a level that the nazis could only dream of. despicable.

 

 

I work in IT and we have a few firewalls and contacts with Checkpoint who are an Israeli company (nerd alert). I've made a decision to get rid of them, the contracts for support and be done with putting any money into that country. It's small fry but at least my conscience is clear. It will take me a few weeks to do so and a few plane journeys but fuck it. Fuck those murdering bastards.

Good on you mate. I started boycotting Israeli products several years back. Hit them in the pocket. Short of dropping some serious armaments on Tel Aviv, it's the only way to hurt them.

 

[Kevin D]

I still haven't got a clue what any of this is about. Are we winning?

No one wins. One side just loses more slowly.

[Stu Monty]

Israel is motivated by fear. I think they would like a democratic, peaceful Palestine, they just don't believe for one second that such a thing is possible. Don't know where they could possibly have got that idea...

 

 

So Israel should tolerate rocket attacks from Gaza killing and terrorising its citizens until it has demolished all its settlements in the West Bank, lifted the blockade and so on and so forth? Is that really what you are saying?

 

Can't get my head round that kind of thinking if that's what you mean.

Can we stop conducting this conversation based on the fairy story that the Israeli government want any peace that involves two states. Please.

 

If they want a peaceful Palestine then why would they have aided Hamas in order to undermine the PLO?

 

If you genuinely think Netenyahu and his cunt pals have any desire for a peace on anything other than complete Israeli domination then I reckon we're probably done here for worthwhile conversation.

[Strontium]

You're failing to acknowledge the difference between what someone may want and what they think is actually achievable. This is the real world, not a Green Party manifesto.

 

If you honestly think that there is anyone anywhere in the world who actually wants to be surrounded by people who are rather keen on exterminating them, then you're right that no worthwhile conversation can be had.

[Red Phoenix]

Incase anyone missed part 1 of Brand vs Hannity :

 

Russell Brand. Fox News. Some cunt called Shaun. Terrorists.

 

Part 2 :

 

[Dougie Do'ins]

Israel is motivated by fear. I think they would like a democratic, peaceful Palestine, they just don't believe for one second that such a thing is possible. Don't know where they could possibly have got that idea...

 

 

So Israel should tolerate rocket attacks from Gaza killing and terrorising its citizens until it has demolished all its settlements in the West Bank, lifted the blockade and so on and so forth? Is that really what you are saying?

 

Can't get my head round that kind of thinking if that's what you mean.

Some would believe it's motivated by greed and superiority. 

[banger]

Maybe once Hamas stop deliberately targetting civilians I'll have some sympathy for them , but I highly doubt it . Fucking barbarians.

[VladimirIlyich]

Maybe once Hamas stop deliberately targetting civilians I'll have some sympathy for them , but I highly doubt it . Fucking barbarians.

Thats fair enough but shouldnt that apply to Israel too?

[Section_31]

I've got no sympathy for Hamas either, but I've got sympathy for the little kids getting indiscriminately blown to shreds by a war machine that refuses to even pretend to want to differentiate between the two.