Roy tells Degen to leave the club

[TheResonator]

Thing is it's not just about Degen being shit, it's about having funds in place to sign a decent replacement.

 

Insua for example. He didn't have a great season last year but he was a young lad and likely to improve. Same with Kyrgiakos (if he goes?). The reason we played players like Insua, Kyrgiakos and signed the likes of Degen, Voronin were not because they're the best thing since sliced bread but to buffer the squad in the absence of funds for alternatives.

 

I'm conditionally happy Degen's moved on and Insua I haven't made up my mind about. 'Conditionally' because if we don't improve on these players in some way, shape, or form, we haven't really made progress, have we? I mean Insua had his poor moments last year but he is undoubtedly better than having no left back, which is our current situation.

 

All I'm saying is that the squad overhaul should not just be judged by who we get rid of but who we bring in as replacements.

[Guest TK-421]

I think that "clean slate" stuff was just PR to reinforce the impression that this is a promissing new era for the club and to distance the club from the previous regime. Rafa was cold, distant etc. But don't worry! Roy is lovely and will give everyone a chance.

 

Everything coming out of the club at the moment is like some carefully orchestrated PR campaign to make sure the fans shut the fuck up for a little while longer. And KEEP ON PAYING MONEY.

 

There are bids in mid-July, honest. Done and dusted by the end of this month according to some bloke in the pub.

 

Not that I'm paranoid, much.

[jackofdk]

I'm conditionally happy Degen's moved on and Insua I haven't made up my mind about. 'Conditionally' because if we don't improve on these players in some way, shape, or form, we haven't really made progress, have we?

 

 

Degen has played 7 games for LFC in two seasons. Seven.

 

If he gets 40,000 a week that is an expensive game per pound ratio and it is expensive even if he gets "just" 20,000 a week. We really, really, REALLY don't need to replace him for it to be a good deal to get rid.

[WaltonRed]

The stuff off the pitch doesnt have to affect the players as much as it has in the past.

 

I think Roys going to play it like that and so he should.

[jackofdk]

Degen has played 7 games for LFC in two seasons. Seven.

 

If he gets 40,000 a week that is an expensive game per pound ratio and it is expensive even if he gets "just" 20,000 a week. We really, really, REALLY don't need to replace him for it to be a good deal to get rid.

 

EDIT: Just noticed it's 7 PL games and 12 in total. Still expensive, though.

[Delmar]

Getting rid of Degen is a correct move. He is a pointless football player, runs a lot when healthy, no end product, poor defensively.

 

That's the football side covered. Then you look at the situation in the club, we have bankers in charge, we're deep in debt, there's a very good chance we have to reduce the wage bill to cover the cash flow.

 

I assume the aim is to get rid of Degens, sign one more good attacking player with about half the Mascherano money, and convince Torres to stay. LBs will not be top level, Mascherano's replacement (if at all) will be a journeyman. BTW, can Shelvey be converted to a holding midfielder? Never seen him play...

[Redexile]

Getting rid of Degen is a correct move. He is a pointless football player, runs a lot when healthy, no end product, poor defensively.

 

That's the football side covered. Then you look at the situation in the club, we have bankers in charge, we're deep in debt, there's a very good chance we have to reduce the wage bill to cover the cash flow.

 

I assume the aim is to get rid of Degens, sign one more good attacking player with about half the Mascherano money, and convince Torres to stay. LBs will not be top level, Mascherano's replacement (if at all) will be a journeyman. BTW, can Shelvey be converted to a holding midfielder? Never seen him play...

 

Thinking a little out of the box Gerrard would IMO make a very good holding midfielder with the added ability to hit the long range screamer. It might extend his playing days and would allow both Cole and Aquilani to play a part in the same side. I know a lot of people would consider this to be a waste but I have never forgotten Stevies display at fullback late on in Istanbul.

[fowler9]

I think this does make more sense than the Insua deal in that we already have a better replacement for Degen in Kelly so won't need to sign a new right back, suppose this along with the Insua fee could help fund 2 new left backs

[TheResonator]

EDIT: Just noticed it's 7 PL games and 12 in total. Still expensive, though.

 

Largely agree with that in essence, and at a normal club in a normal situation I'd suspend my skepticism.

 

I'm only mindful of the fact that people seem to be being told what they want to hear and I hope they won't go overboard in embracing the club's actions until we have seen the full extent of our transfer activity.

 

So far we've seen Dossena £4.7m, Voronin £1.8m, Mihaylov £1.5m Yossi £5.5m, San Jose £2.6m, Insua £5.0m go this year, with Riera, Degen, Kyrgiakos and Masch apparently likely to follow.

 

We've brought in players on frees (Cole, Jovanovic, Maxi) with the exception of Wilson and Shelvey who both commanded relatively small transfer fees.

 

What I am guarded against is that it would be very easy for the board to trim off the unpopular or deadwood players like Degen, Riera, NGog and replace them with frees or cheap journeymen creating the illusion of a better squad (possibly even a better squad) without reinvesting their transfer funds, and creating short term optimism amongst the fanbase whilst paying down some of the debt and temporarily taking the pressure off themselves.

 

Although I obviously want our squad to be the best possible and I don't think a player like Degen really cuts the mustard, to compete we will ultimately need investment and to generate funds from selling off unpopular players which will not go back into transfers is a damaging precedent, and a dangerous one if it's overlooked by the fans.

 

I'm not neccessarily saying this is happening yet or that it will or won't happen, but whether the motivation for selling these players is in the best or worst interests of the squad and the fans is yet to be revealed in my opinion.

[stringvest]

When he was appointed Roy said everyone starts with a clean slate. Not so for Degen, it seems, and I suspect there are a few others. Why is Roy so direct about Degen but was less so regarding Insua? He sounds like a manager who is being told what to say to the press as far as some players are concerned.

 

Do you really believe that?

[stringvest]

Thinking a little out of the box Gerrard would IMO make a very good holding midfielder with the added ability to hit the long range screamer. It might extend his playing days and would allow both Cole and Aquilani to play a part in the same side. I know a lot of people would consider this to be a waste but I have never forgotten Stevies display at fullback late on in Istanbul.

 

he played a few games at RB at the beginning of his career

[Kennys_spell]

Slight flaw in your argument though in the fact he bought him in the first place and didn't really actively look to sell him which with his revolving door transfer policy was surprising.

 

See my earlier post about "Potential". No argument that he let himself down but really, I wouldn't have thought the gamble was completely mad.

[Guest TK-421]

Do you really believe that?

 

It appears to be a possibility to me, which is why I wrote it.

 

But then you know everything about the club, so I won't argue about it. Just tell me how it is in reality. It's incredible, really. You know everything about Roy, Rafa, Broughton, RBS, Barcap, Purslow AND you're an expert on all of the players. Please, don't keep me in the dark any longer.

 

Is it still happening on Monday?

[stringvest]

Largely agree with that in essence, and at a normal club in a normal situation I'd suspend my skepticism.

 

I'm only mindful of the fact that people seem to be being told what they want to hear and I hope they won't go overboard in embracing the club's actions until we have seen the full extent of our transfer activity.

 

So far we've seen Dossena £4.7m, Voronin £1.8m, Mihaylov £1.5m Yossi £5.5m, San Jose £2.6m, Insua £5.0m go this year, with Riera, Degen, Kyrgiakos and Masch apparently likely to follow.

 

We've brought in players on frees (Cole, Jovanovic, Maxi) with the exception of Wilson and Shelvey who both commanded relatively small transfer fees.

 

What I am guarded against is that it would be very easy for the board to trim off the unpopular or deadwood players like Degen, Riera, NGog and replace them with frees or cheap journeymen creating the illusion of a better squad (possibly even a better squad) without reinvesting their transfer funds, and creating short term optimism amongst the fanbase whilst paying down some of the debt and temporarily taking the pressure off themselves.

 

Although I obviously want our squad to be the best possible and I don't think a player like Degen really cuts the mustard, to compete we will ultimately need investment and to generate funds from selling off unpopular players which will not go back into transfers is a damaging precedent, and a dangerous one if it's overlooked by the fans.

 

I'm not neccessarily saying this is happening yet or that it will or won't happen, but whether the motivation for selling these players is in the best or worst interests of the squad and the fans is yet to be revealed in my opinion.

 

I think we all realise that we're not going to see investment in the squad in this transfer window. At best we'll see some of the money raised in sales used to buy players. That's the best we can hope for.

 

That said, as a club, we do need to cut back of a lot of rubbish in order for any product of our youth policy to be given some oxygen and sunlight. We have a lot of players on our books who are just not good enough - they don't offer anything, and cost us money. Getting rid of them makes sense, no matter who owns the club.

[TheResonator]

I think we all realise that we're not going to see investment in the squad in this transfer window. At best we'll see some of the money raised in sales used to buy players. That's the best we can hope for.

 

That said, as a club, we do need to cut back of a lot of rubbish in order for any product of our youth policy to be given some oxygen and sunlight. We have a lot of players on our books who are just not good enough - they don't offer anything, and cost us money. Getting rid of them makes sense, no matter who owns the club.

 

As long as that is their reason for doing so, and as long as fans bear in mind that negative spend does not constitute acceptable transfer policy for a top four club, irrespective of which players leave and which we bring in.

[Dermot]

Degen going is the right decision, Johnson is first choice and we have good cover (better than Degen certainly) in Kelly, Darby and Carra can play out there.

 

I agree with the sentiment that we have a lot of deadwood that can be trimmed around the place, not just around the first team but fringe players like Plessis and El Zhar.

 

But while I am heartened by some of what appears to be happening I am still so wary, we have, since Jan, received about £20m in transfers, for Shelvey and Wilson we are looking and spending about £5m of that. With the other expected sales we need to see decent investment this summer.

[Major Tom]

As long as that is their reason for doing so, and as long as fans bear in mind that negative spend does not constitute acceptable transfer policy for a top four club, irrespective of which players leave and which we bring in.

 

No, it's not.

 

But the gimpoids are selling so do you really expect the to shellack a load money on new players this summer? I don't. I hope I'm wrong mind.

[Fugitive]

Maybe just a few days of watching him in training has told him all he needed to know about him.

[Welsh]

I hope to God El Zhar is next to leave.

[Faustus]

Devastated.

[Paul]

Some bad paranoia on here these days. Still, I suppose that's one of the many shitty things Hicks and Gillett have given us, isn't it?

 

My interpretation of what Hodgson has said is that he already knows who's shit and needs to go (after all, who doesn't?), but needs to play it diplomatically in case he can't shift the shite and needs to make some sort of use of it. That's just sensible in my view.

[seven of eleven]

He is shit sell him on hate him as a player and only thing he has going for him was pace should run 200m in spaztic olympics.

[stringvest]

It appears to be a possibility to me, which is why I wrote it.

 

But then you know everything about the club, so I won't argue about it. Just tell me how it is in reality. It's incredible, really. You know everything about Roy, Rafa, Broughton, RBS, Barcap, Purslow AND you're an expert on all of the players. Please, don't keep me in the dark any longer.

 

Is it still happening on Monday?

 

Don't get all shirty, I don't know anything, I have opinions just like you. I'm just interested to know how you came to that conclusion.

[stringvest]

As long as that is their reason for doing so, and as long as fans bear in mind that negative spend does not constitute acceptable transfer policy for a top four club, irrespective of which players leave and which we bring in.

 

I don't think our fans are that stupid. Even the stupid ones. We are where we are, and we've got to make the most of it, sadly.

[stringvest]

Is it still happening on Monday?

 

Definitely.