Hicks admits Klinsmann stuff

[Brownie]

Unequivocal successes

 

Reina A massive improvement

Agger A potentially huge improvement

Mascherano Could become the best in the world in his position

Torres A massive improvement

Alonso A massive improvement

 

 

 

Other than that, none of his buys have improved the first team. That's half the side. With major improvements being made on the standard of our squad players.

 

Torres is the only player we've signed, in an attacking sense, who's been a major success.

 

That's the problem Rafa has. He has strengthened the defensive side of a team, that was already very good defensively.

[Brownie]

The problem is, discussing Rafa's failings as a manager at the moment is like talking about how you don't like the curtains in your bedroom while there's a chip pan fire going on in the kitchen.

 

Haha good analogy.

 

I think it's still fair to dicsuss the issues, because they still exist.

 

Rafa possibly being sacked for anything other than footballing reasons, and also being stabbed in the back is a side issue.

[Guest Red Maniac]

Unequivocal successes

 

Reina A massive improvement

Agger A potentially huge improvement

Mascherano Could become the best in the world in his position

Torres A massive improvement

Alonso A massive improvement

 

 

 

Other than that, none of his buys have improved the first team. That's half the side. With major improvements being made on the standard of our squad players.

 

"potentially" huge improvements dont count and is desperado tactics

[Gav]

The problem is, discussing Rafa's failings as a manager at the moment is like talking about how you don't like the curtains in your bedroom while there's a chip pan fire going on in the kitchen.

 

Looks to me like fighting with the mrs or starting the chip pan fire in the kitchen while at the same time setting fire to the couch with a cigarette

[Cardie]

He's being stabbed in the back by supporters as well though.

 

There are people who think he needs to go but are willing to support him until the owners are gone before turning their attentions to him. While he does have huge support you have to wonder how much is genuine and how much is an enemy of my enemy.

[Red Nick]

The problem is, discussing Rafa's failings as a manager at the moment is like talking about how you don't like the curtains in your bedroom while there's a chip pan fire going on in the kitchen.

 

Exactly

 

The thing is Rafa now needs to be given a full season under different owners before a decision can be made if he can challenge for the title or not.

 

Thats whats likely to happen if the owners sell out and I understand the Owners are quite impressed with the work Warnock is doing down at the Palace.

[paisley1977]

As for transfers, he's right when he says Rafa has gone for quantity over quality. There surely can't be any debate there. You could also argue that Rafa's record in signing attacking players (Torres apart) is shite. And it is.

 

 

I believe the quantity over quality issue is the reason for our lack of Championships.And goes back to when Souness took over.Its been going on to long.

 

When Rafa has bought quality he has been a success,imo.

[silverlining]

He's being stabbed in the back by supporters as well though.

 

There are people who think he needs to go but are willing to support him until the owners are gone before turning their attentions to him.

 

I know, but that's fair enough. Lesser of two evils.

 

And no matter what anyone may think of Benitez, he's done far, FAR more to earn our support than Statler & Waldorf.

[Brownie]

He's being stabbed in the back by supporters as well though.

 

There are people who think he needs to go but are willing to support him until the owners are gone before turning their attentions to him. While he does have huge support you have to wonder how much is genuine and how much is an enemy of my enemy.

 

Deciding that he might not be good enough is stabbing him in the back?

 

You don't have a fucking clue. And you have a nerve even being on here after the shite you spouted about the press reports, which turned out to be true.

 

Go and preach somewhere else, you're not welcome here you snidey little prick.

[Cardie]

Get you.

 

If people think he's not good enough he's not good enough, it shouldn't matter who is in charge or what else is happening at the club if that's your oppinion you stick by it.

 

Pretending he has your (not yours personally) support while waiting for the owners to be replaced then turning on Rafa as seems to be the case is.

[redrosetints]

As memory serves, you also spent a long time not buying the new owners having a tight financial leash on the club, the owners wanting rid of Rafa, and the owners approaching Klinsmann – while being deeply patronising to anyone who said otherwise.

 

I don't normally do the hindsight thing, but really, with your track record, maybe you should be holding off announcing what you do or don't buy for a while?

 

Patronising, coming from you ! Still whittling on about things 8 months later :whistle:

 

I just dont believe that for all his inaqequcies as a Chief Exec, he'd be serving his own interest over and above the clubs. Its a huge leap from being a bumbling fan being in over your head, to being a sold out mercenary who would prefer to look after himself than the club. Of course I may be wrong, but I dont see him as a Kenyon type. More Steve Gibson, which says it all really.

 

As for the other stuff, I didn't and don't think Rafa on a tight financial leash, thats opinion, no absolute truths here are there Mosser old bean. But he's had over 50m to spend in 8 months, thats plenty. I've not said I dont think they want him out, but its true I didnt think we'd offered the job to Klinsman thats for sure, so I was wrong, wont be the last time.

[robslappa]

The problem is, discussing Rafa's failings as a manager at the moment is like talking about how you don't like the curtains in your bedroom while there's a chip pan fire going on in the kitchen.

 

True.

[Brownie]

Get you.

 

If people think he's not good enough he's not good enough, it shouldn't matter who is in charge or what else is happening at the club if that's your oppinion you stick by it.

 

Pretending he has your (not yours personally) support while waiting for the owners to be replaced then turning on Rafa as seems to be the case is.

 

No-one is doing that though, are they?

 

There are plenty of people who believe he should be replaced for footballing reasons, yet their humanitarian side allows for sympathy towards Rafa due to the pressure he's been put under. On top of that, people may even change their stance slightly as they realise his job has been made harder.

 

That's not to say that the doubts don't still exist or that the criticism isn't still warranted, it just means that people are cutting someone some slack when he needs it.

 

Would you prefer for people to just carry on hammering him despite the fact that he needs a bit of slack?

[Moschops II]

so I was wrong, wont be the last time.

 

Doesn't look like it, no.

[Mr T]

Get you.

 

If people think he's not good enough he's not good enough, it shouldn't matter who is in charge or what else is happening at the club if that's your oppinion you stick by it.

 

Pretending he has your (not yours personally) support while waiting for the owners to be replaced then turning on Rafa as seems to be the case is.

 

Don't agree.

 

I think we have a time frame where we can realistically get the Yankies out. That is between now and the summer. Once a new more palletable yes man is installed and the Yanks have their loans in, fans anger will slowly die down and apathy will prevail.

 

The time to act is now, I don't share their opinions on Rafa, but the first priority is the Yanks and any criticism of Rafa distracts from the cancer at the club. If the Americans are gone, then the time to discuss Rafa will resume but not now.

[redrosetints]

The problem is, discussing Rafa's failings as a manager at the moment is like talking about how you don't like the curtains in your bedroom while there's a chip pan fire going on in the kitchen.

 

Still a valid topic though, since its the real root cause of the fans Ire. Had there been no issues with Rafa then I dont think there would be so much widespread shock. Fact is alot of fans seem to agree with the americans on Rafas ability to lead/ or not, LFC to the title. They may lie and have no clue on PR, but of all the thing levelled at them, some would say they are right with their concerns of Rafa.

 

(And before you say, Rafa should stay and for many years to come)

[WaltonRed]

No-one is doing that though, are they?

 

There are plenty of people who believe he should be replaced for footballing reasons, yet their humanitarian side allows for sympathy towards Rafa due to the pressure he's been put under. On top of that, people may even change their stance slightly as they realise his job has been made harder.

 

That's not to say that the doubts don't still exist or that the criticism isn't still warranted, it just means that people are cutting someone some slack when he needs it.

 

Would you prefer for people to just carry on hammering him despite the fact that he needs a bit of slack?

 

100% spot on.

 

I have my doubts but its undeniable that his job has been made harder, nigh on impossible at the minute.

[redrosetints]

Doesn't look like it, no.

 

Ha ! Legend in your own household.

[Cardie]

It depends how deeply you believe he's the wrong man for the job and whether events have had a significant impact on the teams ability to perform.

 

Personally I don't think they have had a major impact as the problems we've had on the pitch are no different to the problems every other season and are happening to a far lesser degree. It's possible that if this wasn't happenining then we'd be turning draws into wins but can it really have an effect on a players ability to finish?

 

If people have genuinely changed their opinion of him in light of what's happened then fair enough but if people are just suppressing them while they fight what they perceive as the bigger enemy then they aren't doing Rafa any favours.

[Brownie]

It depends how deeply you believe he's the wrong man for the job and whether events have had a significant impact on the teams ability to perform.

 

Personally I don't think they have had a major impact as the problems we've had on the pitch are no different to the problems every other season and are happening to a far lesser degree. It's possible that if this wasn't happenining then we'd be turning draws into wins but can it really have an effect on a players ability to finish?

 

If people have genuinely changed their opinion of him in light of what's happened then fair enough but if people are just suppressing them while they fight what they perceive as the bigger enemy then they aren't doing Rafa any favours.

 

I totally disagree. The situation regarding the owners is far more pressing than that of the manager.

 

The manager should only be judged in May anyway, whereas the owners have quite rightly already been judged.

 

You're pretty much saying that we should carry on regardless, and that there isn't any extenuating circumstances, which I can't agree with.

[silverlining]

 

Fact is alot of fans seem to agree with the americans on Rafas ability to lead/ or not, LFC to the title. They may lie and have no clue on PR, but of all the thing levelled at them, some would say they are right with their concerns of Rafa.

 

 

But it's very hard to have any respect for their views and/or knowledge of the game when that uncertainty prompts them to offer Jurgen fucking Klinsmann the job of managing Liverpool Football Club.

[Moschops II]

Still a valid topic though, since its the real root cause of the fans Ire. Had there been no issues with Rafa then I dont think there would be so much widespread shock. Fact is alot of fans seem to agree with the americans on Rafas ability to lead/ or not, LFC to the title. They may lie and have no clue on PR, but of all the thing levelled at them, some would say they are right with their concerns of Rafa.

 

(And before you say, Rafa should stay and for many years to come)

 

But the Americans don't want to sack Rafa because they don't think he can win the title. They want rid of him because he criticised them in public. If they tie up their re-financing, then all the title would be to Hicks is a headache, as whatever financial benefits differentiate that from coming 3rd or 4th would be outweighed by making it that much harder to winkle the manager out. The perfect scenario for Hicks and Gillett is that we come 4th - all but ensuring CL qualification and the money it brings with it, but enough of a failure to make it far simpler to dispense with Benitez, no doubt citing the fans' dissatisfaction.

[Red Nick]

Some people just dont know when to quit

[Cardie]

I totally disagree. The situation regarding the owners is far more pressing than that of the manager.

 

The manager should only be judged in May anyway, whereas the owners have quite rightly already been judged.

 

You're pretty much saying that we should carry on regardless, and that there isn't any extenuating circumstances, which I can't agree with.

 

There are people who don't believe it should be used as an excuse though, whether they're the same people who have lost faith in him I haven't checked but you can guarentee that across the numerous forums there are people who fall into that category.

 

Whether we can blame the turmoil this season for players not being able to finish or not buying what people believe are the players we need, problems that people are quick to tell us have been around since Rafa joined, is open for debate.

 

It may have affected certain choices at times but whether it's affected re-occuring problems I'm not so sure.

[coop]

Ballague on SSN shortly apparently to talk about whats going off at Liverpool.