Australia

[Waitak]

7 hours ago, Bloke said:

 

Link to that info? My old man passed from a cardiac arrest on 2nd September 2020 and the NZ government were an absolute disgrace. There is a reason Jacinta, McGowan and and Andrew's have all quit and it isn't burnout.

Sorry mate, my earlier response was brief to the point of rudeness. I'm very sorry to hear about your loss, and I can't imagine how frustrating it must have been to deal with your Dad's death in the face of the restrictions the Government had put in place. It will be interesting to see the response from expatriate Kiwis when the special votes (for last week's election) are counted. In recent elections, the special votes have generally favoured the left, but there are suggestions that this year will be different as a result of the Government's ham-fisted handling of the pandemic. We should have the answer within the next two weeks, and the result will certainly have an impact on the structure of the new Government. 

[Olddantucker]

1 hour ago, Waitak said:

Sorry mate, my earlier response was brief to the point of rudeness. I'm very sorry to hear about your loss, and I can't imagine how frustrating it must have been to deal with your Dad's death in the face of the restrictions the Government had put in place. It will be interesting to see the response from expatriate Kiwis when the special votes (for last week's election) are counted. In recent elections, the special votes have generally favoured the left, but there are suggestions that this year will be different as a result of the Government's ham-fisted handling of the pandemic. We should have the answer within the next two weeks, and the result will certainly have an impact on the structure of the new Government. 

 

There's too much revisionist bollocks being talked about here.  As a Kiwi living overseas I missed two close family funerals due to the border closures and I still say that the NZ Government response was much better than almost everywhere else in the world. 

[Waitak]

3 hours ago, Olddantucker said:

 

There's too much revisionist bollocks being talked about here.  As a Kiwi living overseas I missed two close family funerals due to the border closures and I still say that the NZ Government response was much better than almost everywhere else in the world. 

There's nothing "revisionist" in what I've posted. I've attempted to describe what many Kiwis living in New Zealand felt at the time about the Government's handling of the pandemic from 2021. Of course, the perception from overseas may have been different, which might explain why Jacinda Ardern now has more credibility abroad than she does domestically.

 

Anyway, don't take my word for it, here is an excerpt from an article posted just a couple of days ago:-

 

Listener writer Danyl Mclauchlan also cites Covid and failure to deliver on promises: "Hipkins was indirectly responsible for much of his party's decline. He was minister for Covid, and the early phase was a triumph that voters rewarded in 2020. But 2021 saw one of the slowest vaccine rollouts in the OECD after the government failed to negotiate purchase agreements with pharmaceutical companies. The lack of vaccine coverage led to the sustained Auckland lockdown of late 2021, a policy failure that the nation's largest city has punished them for by delivering a number of Labour's safest seats to National. Mt Roskill and New Lynn have fallen, Mt Albert and Te Atatū look set to fall. Hipkins was also minister for health, education, police and public service: all areas in which his government's legacy is questionable at best." 

 

The full article can be found here if you're interested, but it only echoes much of what was said in the Bryce Edwards article I referenced earlier in the week.  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2023/500390/the-left-s-postmortem-on-labour-s-defeat

 

[Olddantucker]

47 minutes ago, Waitak said:

There's nothing "revisionist" in what I've posted. I've attempted to describe what many Kiwis living in New Zealand felt at the time about the Government's handling of the pandemic from 2021. Of course, the perception from overseas may have been different, which might explain why Jacinda Ardern now has more credibility abroad than she does domestically.

 

Anyway, don't take my word for it, here is an excerpt from an article posted just a couple of days ago:-

 

Listener writer Danyl Mclauchlan also cites Covid and failure to deliver on promises: "Hipkins was indirectly responsible for much of his party's decline. He was minister for Covid, and the early phase was a triumph that voters rewarded in 2020. But 2021 saw one of the slowest vaccine rollouts in the OECD after the government failed to negotiate purchase agreements with pharmaceutical companies. The lack of vaccine coverage led to the sustained Auckland lockdown of late 2021, a policy failure that the nation's largest city has punished them for by delivering a number of Labour's safest seats to National. Mt Roskill and New Lynn have fallen, Mt Albert and Te Atatū look set to fall. Hipkins was also minister for health, education, police and public service: all areas in which his government's legacy is questionable at best." 

 

The full article can be found here if you're interested, but it only echoes much of what was said in the Bryce Edwards article I referenced earlier in the week.  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2023/500390/the-left-s-postmortem-on-labour-s-defeat

 

 I don’t agree with this article at all. People in NZ have no clue how lucky they were.

 

we obviously disagree, but that’s cool. I’m going back to wondering I what it means if an Ian Foster coached team makes it into the World Cup final.

[VladimirIlyich]

13 hours ago, Bloke said:

 

Who knows you don't have your own opinion you just wade into everything with your mind made up as a freedom fighter.

Are you the poster formerly known as 'The Chap?'

[Kepler-186]

Harden the fuck up, Australia. 
 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

What was attached to the bill that stopped people from voting to give indigenous Australians the same rights as white European settlers? For example I know in the US that they attach some horrible shit to some bills which look as if they are doing the 'right' thing but then the amendment sometimes negates the good stuff. Is this what has happened here? I find it hard to believe that people have said to themselves 'What? You called me a racist? Right,I'll show you and prove it!'

[Waitak]

3 hours ago, Olddantucker said:

 I don’t agree with this article at all. People in NZ have no clue how lucky they were.

 

we obviously disagree, but that’s cool. I’m going back to wondering I what it means if an Ian Foster coached team makes it into the World Cup final.

Where do you live, Brazil ? 

 

To your second point, it will be a major achievement, given the AB's ranking and patchy form going into the tournament.  What's your view ? 

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

What was attached to the bill that stopped people from voting to give indigenous Australians the same rights as white European settlers? For example I know in the US that they attach some horrible shit to some bills which look as if they are doing the 'right' thing but then the amendment sometimes negates the good stuff. Is this what has happened here? I find it hard to believe that people have said to themselves 'What? You called me a racist? Right,I'll show you and prove it!'

 

it wasn't the bill to give them the same rights, it was a constitutional change, introducing an advisory body.

[Olddantucker]

2 hours ago, Waitak said:

Where do you live, Brazil ? 

 

To your second point, it will be a major achievement, given the AB's ranking and patchy form going into the tournament.  What's your view ? 

it would be quite an achievement given some of the results over the last 4 years.  Now we are one game away, a game we should win, so we’ll probably bloody lose on Saturday morning. Nothing surprises me with an Ian Foster coached team anymore.

 

i do think Jason Ryan and Joe Schmidt have had a big say in improving the ABs performance this season.

[Bloke]

16 hours ago, Waitak said:

Sorry mate, my earlier response was brief to the point of rudeness. I'm very sorry to hear about your loss, and I can't imagine how frustrating it must have been to deal with your Dad's death in the face of the restrictions the Government had put in place. It will be interesting to see the response from expatriate Kiwis when the special votes (for last week's election) are counted. In recent elections, the special votes have generally favoured the left, but there are suggestions that this year will be different as a result of the Government's ham-fisted handling of the pandemic. We should have the answer within the next two weeks, and the result will certainly have an impact on the structure of the new Government. 

 

No worries at all mate, refreshing to hear from someone that knows what is going on. 

[Bloke]

10 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Are you the poster formerly known as 'The Chap?'

 

What? Yeah I'm The Chap, Anny Road and Pureblood 

[Bloke]

9 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

What was attached to the bill that stopped people from voting to give indigenous Australians the same rights as white European settlers? For example I know in the US that they attach some horrible shit to some bills which look as if they are doing the 'right' thing but then the amendment sometimes negates the good stuff. Is this what has happened here? I find it hard to believe that people have said to themselves 'What? You called me a racist? Right,I'll show you and prove it!'

 

This is grim, Aboriginals have the same rights as all Australians not just white one's. Unfortunately that didn't happen until the 60s(67?) And it was via a referendum by which over 90% percent of old fashioned mostly white Australians voted for. So basically you don't know what you are arguing about. 

[Waitak]

6 hours ago, Olddantucker said:

it would be quite an achievement given some of the results over the last 4 years.  Now we are one game away, a game we should win, so we’ll probably bloody lose on Saturday morning. Nothing surprises me with an Ian Foster coached team anymore.

 

i do think Jason Ryan and Joe Schmidt have had a big say in improving the ABs performance this season.

I think Ian Foster is the Gerard Houllier of AB's coaches. I'm hoping that Scott Robertson proves to be the Jurgen Klopp.

[Olddantucker]

5 hours ago, Waitak said:

I think Ian Foster is the Gerard Houllier of AB's coaches. I'm hoping that Scott Robertson proves to be the Jurgen Klopp.

 

LOL I like those comparisons.  Razor has to make the most of this opportunity now it's come about - I wonder if deep down he'd prefer to inherit the World Cup winners or a team that failed?  No pressure at all if they win the whole bloody thing now!

 

Oh well, this time tomorrow we'll know a lot more.  It would in some ways be the perfect end to the Foster era to lose the semifinal now, but fingers crossed. I'm in NZ next weekend and if the ABs make the final that'll look like pretty cool timing.

 

If the ABs win the World Cup Fozzie should hire an open top plane and fly across NZ giving all the doubters the finger. Or maybe go the full Father Ted and use his last press conference to get even with a long list of critics.  That's not too likely though - He'll probably just take a fourth helping from the buffet. 

[Waitak]

Either way, Razor will be building a new team. So many of the core players in this current team are nearing the end of their careers, or are heading overseas after this tournament.

 

Of greater concern is what our mates across the ditch are going to do ? They're hosting the next World Cup, but will clearly need a major upgrade if they want to compete, and I don't think Eddie Jones is the answer. 

[Olddantucker]

27 minutes ago, Waitak said:

Either way, Razor will be building a new team. So many of the core players in this current team are nearing the end of their careers, or are heading overseas after this tournament.

 

Of greater concern is what our mates across the ditch are going to do ? They're hosting the next World Cup, but will clearly need a major upgrade if they want to compete, and I don't think Eddie Jones is the answer. 

 

I live in Sydney & top level rugby here is screwed.  There's still a healthy club scene but a lot of that is propped up by expats like me.  
 

Eddie Jones was only brought in by McClennan because he's good for media interest, and that has backfired completely.  The Lions tour in two years and the next World Cup are make or break for Aussie rugby, and as you say, Eddie ain't the answer (unless the question is, who is the least appropriate person to get in to coach the Wallabies?)  Dave Rennie didn't deserve to be sacked - he was at least trying to get a game plan going and was building them up slowly.

 

About Razor - I know Jason Ryan is staying on to help with the forwards, which is very smart, but I wonder what happens to Joe Schmidt next? A bit like Wayne Smith he has too good a rugby brain to let walk away.

[VladimirIlyich]

14 hours ago, Bloke said:

 

This is grim, Aboriginals have the same rights as all Australians not just white one's. Unfortunately that didn't happen until the 60s(67?) And it was via a referendum by which over 90% percent of old fashioned mostly white Australians voted for. So basically you don't know what you are arguing about. 

So educate me please and explain it instead of getting in a huff.

[Moo]

On 19/10/2023 at 01:37, Olddantucker said:

 

There's too much revisionist bollocks being talked about here.  As a Kiwi living overseas I missed two close family funerals due to the border closures and I still say that the NZ Government response was much better than almost everywhere else in the world. 

 

I feel ya.

 

On 19/10/2023 at 09:33, Waitak said:

Where do you live, Brazil ? 

 

 

UK.

Understand your point of view too, but speaking from a country where the government's response to Covid was catastrophic (see current inquiry, ongoing) I can see why people would think that some NZers don't know how lucky they were during that period. 

 

[Bloke]

On 19/10/2023 at 08:37, Olddantucker said:

 

There's too much revisionist bollocks being talked about here.  As a Kiwi living overseas I missed two close family funerals due to the border closures and I still say that the NZ Government response was much better than almost everywhere else in the world. 

 

I didn't, if you can't be arsed for your whānau and want to pat them on the back fair play to you.

[VladimirIlyich]

Can I ask what were the indigenous Australians views on this advisory board issue? I think their voices would be the most important here wouldn't they?

[CapeRed]

On 21/10/2023 at 03:55, VladimirIlyich said:

Can I ask what were the indigenous Australians views on this advisory board issue? I think their voices would be the most important here wouldn't they?

It’s a mix IMO although ,given slanted media coverage, it’s kinda difficult to evaluate. I got the feeling that what some might call the elite were very much in favour but there were also indigenous folk against it saying that they did not want to be seen as being different to all other Australians. 

[CapeRed]

On 19/10/2023 at 17:10, VladimirIlyich said:

What was attached to the bill that stopped people from voting to give indigenous Australians the same rights as white European settlers? For example I know in the US that they attach some horrible shit to some bills which look as if they are doing the 'right' thing but then the amendment sometimes negates the good stuff. Is this what has happened here? I find it hard to believe that people have said to themselves 'What? You called me a racist? Right,I'll show you and prove it!'

 Can I just clarify . They already have the same rights as every other citizen of Australia They can vote , receive welfare and medical support . Schooling is freely available but in some of the remote areas it can be an issue for sure. The referendum was a proposal to put recognition of aboriginals into the constitution and create what would be called a voice to enable the to sit down with the government and give input on anything that they felt impacted them. IMO it was the voice portion that lead to a strong no vote. I think Skaturation gave a good descriptive overview. 

[Olddantucker]

2 hours ago, CapeRed said:

 Can I just clarify . They already have the same rights as every other citizen of Australia They can vote , receive welfare and medical support . Schooling is freely available but in some of the remote areas it can be an issue for sure. The referendum was a proposal to put recognition of aboriginals into the constitution and create what would be called a voice to enable the to sit down with the government and give input on anything that they felt impacted them. IMO it was the voice portion that lead to a strong no vote. I think Skaturation gave a good descriptive overview. 

And there was no obligation for the government to act on that advice.

[Waitak]

On 21/10/2023 at 00:20, Moo said:

 

I feel ya.

 

 

UK.

Understand your point of view too, but speaking from a country where the government's response to Covid was catastrophic (see current inquiry, ongoing) I can see why people would think that some NZers don't know how lucky they were during that period. 

 

I think I speak for most Kiwis when I say we are extremely grateful we didn't have Boris Johnson or Bolsanaro in charge of New Zealand's handling of the pandemic. However, those guys set a low bar, and it doesn't mean that the Ardern Government's response was particularly good either.