Is Trent Really Worth It?

[Scott_M]

26 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Really? I think Trent coming inside might be his personal preference, I don't think he's more effective. Quite the opposite in fact. Most teams man mark him now.  We're no longer seeing that range of passing we were last season before people realised he had to be man marked or he'd destroy you. 

I didn’t say that. I said his personal performances have been good (for example, nobody can argue he wasn’t very good v Fulham), it’s at the detriment of those around him. 
 

He stayed out wide at City, played well and scored a great goal. He can influence the game just as much from right back without everybody else awkwardly shifting  to accommodate him. 

[johnsusername]

On 18/12/2023 at 17:57, El Dangerous said:

We’re hardly the first team in history to sacrifice certain facets of its team to accommodate a playmaker. It’s just we’re probably the first to do that for a playmaker starting from right back. I imagine if he was starting in a Pirlo style role people would be a lot more understanding of him. 
 

 

 

I don't think he's got the vision or imagination to be a playmaker. 

 

He has a tremendous right foot, probably the best in the league, but he's not a playmaker. 

[Barrington Womble]

9 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

 

I don't think he's got the vision or imagination to be a playmaker. 

 

He has a tremendous right foot, probably the best in the league, but he's not a playmaker. 

He showed plenty of it last season though. It's just teams are mostly man marking him now and those passes just aren't on anymore. It's much easier to close him out in those central areas than it is out wide. 

[Sparky]

 

[TheHowieLama]

It's a game of inches - if Trent finishes that chance the narrative would be over the top.

[diamondjoe]

9 hours ago, Sparky said:

 

Massive changes in his role evidenced in that video. 

 

[Barrington Womble]

10 hours ago, Sparky said:

 

That's easier to deal with than a 200,000 word essay the athletic would normally do. I'm not sure I agree too much with his analysis though. 

[Supremolad]

Trent played 30 odd minutes tonight in the number 6 role and added 2 assists to his tally for the season. (Although Curtis Jones did a lot of heavy lifting for that 2nd assist).

 

Still, it's more evidence that Trent is a natural playmaker who can deliver either on the right as a full back, an 8 or a 6.

[The Guest]

I just don’t see where he fits in.  It was no surprise that the side looked completely transformed with him out of it.  We finally fucked off the hybrid midfield and we looked like a juggernaut.  Full backs staying wide creating space for midfield players to run with the ball and play one twos.  We looked transformed

 

Gomez has been great this season and should be first choice right back.  You can’t put Trent back in there when Gomez is far better defensively and gets to the byline far more often as well.  Gomez can’t hit 60 yard passes with both feet but your full back shouldn’t need or want to.  You can’t start him in the 6 because he’s too weak defensively.  He’s like a cone when players run at him.  That leaves him being either part of a two man base with Endo or fighting it out for one of the 8’s.  He can’t carry the ball like Jones, Szobo or Grav and he hasn’t got the engine and pressing of the first 2 either.  One launched ball to Salah when West Ham have just scored and are chasing the game is not “more evidence” he’s a natural playmaker in the 6.

 

It’s a headache for Klopp and I’d like to see him left out against Arsenal.  I think we will see the hybrid return though and another frustrating evening where he doesn’t get on the ball enough and Martinelli has the run of that side of the pitch.

[Carvalho Diablo]

Would still prefer to see Trent as the right side 8.

 

Buy a proper right back and bin this inverted fullback shizzle.

[Pungkoq Hang]

Baldy started this hybrid MF/ inverted fullback thingy with Cancelo (first iteration I believe, no?), and look where he is now. They have Stones and Ake doing that role currently and they are not exactly pulling up any trees in the league at the moment (though long may it continue).

[A Red]

On 19/12/2023 at 11:09, A Red said:

This is might be a bit mad. For me he is our most talented player and I want to see him on the ball all the time, so I reckon he could play in the front 3 in the Bobby roll linking the midfield. Yes it would involve him running around closing down but the other stuff he could do would be sensational. In my mad opinion.

Yes I'm off my tits with the old covid but I stand by, or at least a variation, of this.

 

Play him up the pitch with less important defensive/tracking duties and you will see the most creative player in the premier league.

[Curly]

23 hours ago, Sparky said:

 

Fucking hell. This is definitely for the shitness of modern football thread. 
 

I’ve never seen or read anything from the athletic that isn’t patronising bollocks from that new age fan type, who if you do end up talking to about football, churn out this bollocks while condescendingly smiling at you because you just don’t get it like them.

 

“So if we look at the data, we see that his role has changed from that of a chance creator, to ball progressor”. Fuck. Off.

 

Fucking talking down to people in a smarmy tone cunts. You can hear the people who indulge in it as well. All think they’re Gab Marcotti, another patronising cunt who has never set foot on a football pitch I’d imagine.

 

Paul Tomkins has a lot to answer for - he was the first wave of this shite.

 

Athletic? Naffletic.

 

Transition of play, xG, inverted whatever - stop fucking touching yourselves over all this bollocks other people are telling you to study. Just watch the fucking game and make your own minds up. 
 

This isn’t a rant at you @Sparky by the way, so apologies for going off on your post mate.

 

Fucking ball progressor. Fucking hell.

[A Red]

2 minutes ago, Curly said:

Fucking hell. This is definitely for the shitness of modern football thread. 
 

I’ve never seen or read anything from the athletic that isn’t patronising bollocks from that new age fan type, who if you do end up talking to about football, churn out this bollocks while condescendingly smiling at you because you just don’t get it like them.

 

“So if we look at the data, we see that his role has changed from that of a chance creator, to ball progressor”. Fuck. Off.

 

Fucking talking down to people in a smarmy tone cunts. You can hear the people who indulge in it as well. All think they’re Gab Marcotti, another patronising cunt who has never set foot on a football pitch I’d imagine.

 

Paul Tomkins has a lot to answer for - he was the first wave of this shite.

 

Athletic? Naffletic.

 

Transition of play, xG, inverted whatever - stop fucking touching yourselves over all this bollocks other people are telling you to study. Just watch the fucking game and make your own minds up. 
 

This isn’t a rant at you @Sparky by the way, so apologies for going off on your post mate.

 

Fucking ball progressor. Fucking hell.

What did Kenny say the other night? "Football is a simple game complicated by people that don't understand it"

[Curly]

10 minutes ago, A Red said:

What did Kenny say the other night? "Football is a simple game complicated by people that don't understand it"

I think the annoyance for me is that these cunts profess to understand it more than everyone else. 

[TheHowieLama]

4 hours ago, Pungkoq Hang said:

Baldy started this hybrid MF/ inverted fullback thingy with Cancelo (first iteration I believe, no?), and look where he is now. They have Stones and Ake doing that role currently and they are not exactly pulling up any trees in the league at the moment (though long may it continue).

 

Flip side is Arsenal playing better than they have in quite some time - using similar.

[skend04]

Trent moving into midfield during games just complicates and slows down our play. The constant and incessant passing along the back line means we lose any momentum and teams are already in a low block by the time the ball gets to the front players. It was genuinely refreshing to see us move the ball quickly last night, even if the Hammers were particularly pish.

 

I fully expect us to return to the new norm Vs Arsenal on Saturday.

[SasaS]

Moving Trent out of defence has to be a good thing in itself.

[A Red]

3 hours ago, skend04 said:

Trent moving into midfield during games just complicates and slows down our play. The constant and incessant passing along the back line means we lose any momentum and teams are already in a low block by the time the ball gets to the front players. It was genuinely refreshing to see us move the ball quickly last night, even if the Hammers were particularly pish.

 

I fully expect us to return to the new norm Vs Arsenal on Saturday.

Trent isn't a sideways passer, he is always looking to push it forward in to feet or for a through ball/ cross. He's the best in the team at doing it. Playing him further up adds to the creativity not reduces it.

[Jairzinho]

7 hours ago, A Red said:

What did Kenny say the other night? "Football is a simple game complicated by people that don't understand it"

 

It's hell of a grift for these gimps making videos or pumping out 7000 word articles for The Athletic.

[Scott_M]

4 hours ago, skend04 said:

l It was genuinely refreshing to see  us move the ball quickly last night, even if the Hammers were particularly pish.

 

I fully expect us to return to the new norm Vs Arsenal on Saturday.

I was saying the same to Dad during the game last night. 
 

Gomez & Bradley wide were always out balls last night, they were free and allowed us to spread the play, thus making more space further forward. 
 

As I’ve said, I’m not against Trent coming infield sometimes, I have against him spending the majority of games in there. 

 

[Kevin D]

18 hours ago, The Guest said:

I just don’t see where he fits in.  It was no surprise that the side looked completely transformed with him out of it.  We finally fucked off the hybrid midfield and we looked like a juggernaut.  Full backs staying wide creating space for midfield players to run with the ball and play one twos.  We looked transformed

 

Gomez has been great this season and should be first choice right back.  You can’t put Trent back in there when Gomez is far better defensively and gets to the byline far more often as well.  Gomez can’t hit 60 yard passes with both feet but your full back shouldn’t need or want to.  You can’t start him in the 6 because he’s too weak defensively.  He’s like a cone when players run at him.  That leaves him being either part of a two man base with Endo or fighting it out for one of the 8’s.  He can’t carry the ball like Jones, Szobo or Grav and he hasn’t got the engine and pressing of the first 2 either.  One launched ball to Salah when West Ham have just scored and are chasing the game is not “more evidence” he’s a natural playmaker in the 6.

 

It’s a headache for Klopp and I’d like to see him left out against Arsenal.  I think we will see the hybrid return though and another frustrating evening where he doesn’t get on the ball enough and Martinelli has the run of that side of the pitch.

Not the way I’d have worded it, but hard to argue with the analysis.

[Kevin D]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

It's hell of a grift for these gimps making videos or pumping out 7000 word articles for The Athletic.

I find it hard to knock them. 
 

I’d love a job where I got paid high six figures to bullshit about football.

[Jairzinho]

Just now, Kevin D said:

I find it hard to knock them. 
 

I’d love a job where I got paid high six figures to bullshit about football.

 

Or seven in Dave's case.

[Pungkoq Hang]

12 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Flip side is Arsenal playing better than they have in quite some time - using similar.

Declan fackin' Rice.

 

Worth every penny the amount of cash they splashed on him. A whole world of difference compared to the other jabronis that used to turn up in the middle of the park for them (Xhaka, Elneny).