Is Trent Really Worth It?

[TD_LFC]

32 minutes ago, The Guest said:

You can dress it up however you like.  We’ve shit the bed all over the pitch this season and there’s all manner of explanations for it.  The result has been getting the best passer in the league who’s fucking shocking defensively into midfield but instead of just doing what anyone else would do we’re still weirdly playing him right back.  We absolutely wouldn’t be doing this if the player playing right back was the right sided equivalent of Robertson.  We are doing it because of Trents profile.  I probably wouldn’t got as far as saying we are doing it because Klopp doesn’t want to make a tit of himself after his comments to Southgate about playing the best right back in the world in midfield but I’m pretty close.

 

Why are Barcelona playing Gavi on the left, why are Arsenal moving Zinchenko into Midfield from left back, why did we move Gakpo into midfield to create the same midfield set up instead of Trent, why did Chelsea under Tuchel move the full backs to the highest point and drop drop of the forwards into midfield, why is Guardiola using a centre back in midfield why.......

 

We're doing it because that's the way tactical trends are moving, not because us and us alone have a unique issue we need to resolve.

 

Trent isn't now playing in midfield, he's still playing at right back, he still plays at right back when we defend. All he's doing is playing somewhere different when we have the ball and are attacking which kind of renders your Trents playing in midfield because he's shit in defense redundant.

[TD_LFC]

31 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

The Guest has neatly articulated a lot of the things there that I was unable to in the OP. 

 

Shame it's bobbins and a complete misunderstanding of his role and the system the team is playing then really.

 

The bit a few of you seem desperately worried about, with regards to Trent,  is the only bit that hasn't changed.

 

The system isn't used to mask any deficiencies he has in defence it's to maximise what he can do when we have the ball.

[The Guest]

20 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Why are Barcelona playing Gavi on the left, why are Arsenal moving Zinchenko into Midfield from left back, why did we move Gakpo into midfield to create the same midfield set up instead of Trent, why did Chelsea under Tuchel move the full backs to the highest point and drop drop of the forwards into midfield, why is Guardiola using a centre back in midfield why.......

 

We're doing it because that's the way tactical trends are moving, not because us and us alone have a unique issue we need to resolve.

 

Trent isn't now playing in midfield, he's still playing at right back, he still plays at right back when we defend. All he's doing is playing somewhere different when we have the ball and are attacking which kind of renders your Trents playing in midfield because he's shit in defense redundant.

A few years ago I might have been able to give you a better response than this but I don’t watch Barcelona at all and from what I’ve seen of Arsenal they’re nowhere near what was made out and they will struggle next year.  Barcelona play in a comically uneven league where they could play Xavi in goal every week and probably still make the champions league.  I don’t think whatever they do now should be impacting what Klopp does here.  Zinchenko is actually a midfielder originally himself and Arteta is a poundshop Guardiola so he will just be copying his plans on the same thing he’s doing with Stones.  If you think we are playing Trent in midfield because these other managers are doing this though I think we are in even more trouble than I thought.  We clearly have unique problems to solve.  I think you’d be mad to think we don’t.

 

You seem to be struggling to comprehend what I’m writing though.  I’m not saying Klopp has put him in midfield because he’s shit defensively.  He’s clearly still forming part of a back four when we don’t have the ball and he’s obviously moving him inside to get him on the ball more to help us create.  What I’m saying, which I thought was obvious, is that I disagree with this as a long term solution because he is shit defensively and I would prefer him to just be in midfield and put a proper right back in place.  It would give us more width and Trent more options and less worries about turning over the ball and getting into that back four.  Go back and reread what I’ve put.  It’s not what you seem to think at all.

 

Just one other point I forgot to mention.  You say he’s not playing midfield he’s still playing right back as if it was some sort of zinger.  When we don’t have the ball he obviously does drop back into the 4 but we have the ball more than we don’t do so he’s actually spending more time in midfield.

[Barrington Womble]

33 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Why are Barcelona playing Gavi on the left, why are Arsenal moving Zinchenko into Midfield from left back, why did we move Gakpo into midfield to create the same midfield set up instead of Trent, why did Chelsea under Tuchel move the full backs to the highest point and drop drop of the forwards into midfield, why is Guardiola using a centre back in midfield why.......

 

We're doing it because that's the way tactical trends are moving, not because us and us alone have a unique issue we need to resolve.

 

Trent isn't now playing in midfield, he's still playing at right back, he still plays at right back when we defend. All he's doing is playing somewhere different when we have the ball and are attacking which kind of renders your Trents playing in midfield because he's shit in defense redundant.

To be fair, most games we have 60-70% of the ball, which means Trent is in midfield far more than defence. I don't know what you call his current role, but I don't think it's full back. 

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

To be fair, most games we have 60-70% of the ball, which means Trent is in midfield far more than defence. I don't know what you call his current role, but I don't think it's full back. 

 

Nobody had an issue calling him a full back when he spent 60-70% of his time as a winger?

[The Guest]

19 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Shame it's bobbins and a complete misunderstanding of his role and the system the team is playing then really.

 

The bit a few of you seem desperately worried about, with regards to Trent,  is the only bit that hasn't changed.

 

The system isn't used to mask any deficiencies he has in defence it's to maximise what he can do when we have the ball.

I don’t know what so hard to understand about this.  I’m not saying the system is being used to mask his deficiencies.  Klopp is clearly putting him in there on the ball because it is helping the team.  What isn’t going to help the team in the long run is the method of putting him in there and expecting him to drop back into right back whilst also asking the right sided centre back to cover for him and one of the other midfielders to go out wide.  It’s unnatural and is a lot easier to counter on and defend against.  Why can’t we just buy a right back and play him in midfield?

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, The Guest said:

I don’t know what so hard to understand about this.  I’m not saying the system is being used to mask his deficiencies.  Klopp is clearly putting him in there on the ball because it is helping the team.  What isn’t going to help the team in the long run is the method of putting him in there and expecting him to drop back into right back whilst also asking the right sided centre back to cover for him and one of the other midfielders to go out wide.  It’s unnatural and is a lot easier to counter on and defend against.  Why can’t we just buy a right back and play him in midfield?

 

Because the system is bigger than one player, because you still have a broad split of 5 and 5 in defence and attack, because it's normal that the job of a left and right sided centre back in a 3 to move across and cover in the same way as the left or right sided centre back in a two will often cover or even split out completely wide in build up.

 

Because midfielders, especially those playing in the #6 or #8 positions to cover space as that's their job.

 

Rather than unnatural it's something that's been part of football for a century or more.

[dave u]

On 03/06/2023 at 13:51, TD_LFC said:

 

Is this where I get outed for not reading articles or keeping up with podcasts where its already been said?

 

No it was more that your post read exactly like the kind of thing he posts in the group chat. It was uncanny!

[Captain Turdseye]

48 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Shame it's bobbins and a complete misunderstanding of his role and the system the team is playing then really.

 

The bit a few of you seem desperately worried about, with regards to Trent,  is the only bit that hasn't changed.

 

The system isn't used to mask any deficiencies he has in defence it's to maximise what he can do when we have the ball.

 

You call it bobbins, some of us call it what’s in front of us. Wether or not it’s positive or negative, the change came about because Trent had all but given up defending. Blame it on the tactics all you like but he was getting rinsed out wide, rinsed on the byline and rinsed in the box. That’s not on a failure to be back in shape with the rest of the team, they’re basic individual errors.

 

It’s funny how you’re shooting posters down about this being part of the game for over a century, like you’re a fucking expert on the ins and outs of professional football. Pipe down, you clown.

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, dave u said:

 

No it was more that your post read exactly like the kind of thing he posts in the group chat. It was uncanny!

 

Knows his football then.

[dave u]

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever acknowledge that!

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:

 

You call it bobbins, some of us call it what’s in front of us. Wether or not it’s positive or negative, the change came about because Trent had all but given up defending. Blame it on the tactics all you like but he was getting rinsed out wide, rinsed on the byline and rinsed in the box. That’s not on a failure be back in shape with the rest of the team, that’s basic individual errors.

 

It’s funny how you’re shooting posters down about this being part of the game for over a century, like you’re a fucking expert on the ins and outs of professional football. Pipe down, you clown.

 

If you genuinely don't like the way this system is set up and you don't like the right sided CB and/or one of the 6/8's cover for the RB in transition then fine.

 

Let's just go back to our old system where the RB plays more as a winger, we have three in midfield and right sided CB and/or one of the 6/8's cover for the RB in transition.

 

No skin off my nose.

 

[dave u]

The question still remains though, if Trent isn't playing then who fills that role? I don't see anybody, not least because Trent is so unique.

[Barrington Womble]

37 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Nobody had an issue calling him a full back when he spent 60-70% of his time as a winger?

To be honest, I always said I didn't think he was a full back! I remember one night having a row with some Leicester fan who was talking the usual flag shagging nonsense and i kept saying to him you've got to get out of thinking of him as a full back. He's more advanced than a wing back, which pretty much makes him a winger who sometimes helps out at right back. 

[TD_LFC]

41 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

 

Nobody One person had an issue calling him a full back when he spent 60-70% of his time as a winger?

 

[3 Stacks]

Unless you can find a technically brilliant right back who also offers you defensive balance, aka a unicorn these days, you keep Trent at full back simply put to make it easier to dominate the game. You can play another midfielder instead of another defender.

[Captain Turdseye]

1 minute ago, TD_LFC said:

 

If you genuinely don't like the way this system is set up and you don't like the right sided CB and/or one of the 6/8's cover for the RB in transition then fine.

 

Let's just go back to our old system where the RB plays more as a winger, we have three in midfield and right sided CB and/or one of the 6/8's cover for the RB in transition.

 

No skin off my nose.

 

If I’m honest, I did enjoy it a little bit when we won the league and CL playing that way.
 

All the internet stattos, armchair experts and old posters with the letters L, F and D in their name would have you believe that what we’re doing now is cutting edge football, the way forward, from a hundred years ago. 
 

Man City didn’t move Zinchenko or Stones into midfield because they were shit at defending. But that’s the reason Trent has been playing where he has for the last portion of the season. 
 

Who knows, maybe Trent could turn out to be a generational talent in that position as well, but are we willing to gamble a whole season on it with no back up plan?

 

And this is before we even talk about new midfielders and the issues around Nunez upfront. 

[3 Stacks]

2 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

If I’m honest, I did enjoy it a little bit when we won the league and CL playing that way.
 

All the internet stattos, armchair experts and old posters with the letters L, F and D in their name would have you believe that what we’re doing now is cutting edge football, the way forward, from a hundred years ago. 
 

Man City didn’t move Zinchenko or Stones into midfield because they were shit at defending. But that’s the reason Trent has been playing where he has for the last portion of the season. 
 

Who knows, maybe Trent could turn out to be a generational talent in that position as well, but are we willing to gamble a whole season on it with no back up plan?

 

And this is before we even talk about new midfielders and the issues around Nunez upfront. 

TD's point is that it similarly required a compensation, but it was done in a different way.

[TD_LFC]

1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

TD's point is that it similarly required a compensation, but it was done in a different way.

 

It was done in pretty much the same way really, the right side of the 2-3 (one defender one midfielder) were the cover for Trent (who was part of the 5 man attack), now the right side of a 3-2 is used to cover, one of those players just happens to be Trent.

 

[Captain Turdseye]

Like I said, internet stattos, armchair experts and current posters with the number 3 in their name. 

[3 Stacks]

Just now, Captain Turdseye said:

Like I said, internet stattos, armchair experts and current posters with the number 3 in their name. 

Ah, mate, come on.

[TD_LFC]

10 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

Man City didn’t move Zinchenko or Stones into midfield because they were shit at defending. But that’s the reason Trent has been playing where he has for the last portion of the season. 

 

How do you reconcile our shit defender only being in midfield when we have the ball and at RB when we're defending.

 

Would be an odd way of protecting a shit defender, no?

[Captain Turdseye]

3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Ah, mate, come on.

You’ve still got some credit in the bank, son. 

[Jairzinho]

Some very good analysis interspersed with arrogant shithousery. The FF at its absolute best. 

[Barrington Womble]

25 minutes ago, dave u said:

The question still remains though, if Trent isn't playing then who fills that role? I don't see anybody, not least because Trent is so unique.

You can say pretty much the same about him at full back. I just think we bring someone else in and probably tweak to system a little - so maybe a thiago plays but we deal with full back differently. You can't have backup world class players.