Our midfield

[HBenn]

7 hours ago, an tha said:

If we are not going to sort midfield in Jan then for me we need to make some tactical tweaks.
 

As the first Leicester goal showed yesterday we are still trying to play as a pressing side - we can't do it anymore we have not pressed effectively all season.
 

Our midfield simply can't carry out the requirements of our system anymore..... They can't press effectively and they can't recover once they've been beaten, and we don't win anywhere near enough 2nd balls.
 

So if we are sticking with the same players then for me the tactics need to change.
 

The fullbacks are going to have to be a bit more conservative - a big issue now is when the press fails we are caught with our fullbacks pushed up as wingers and we have no recovery pace/nobody who can tackle in midfield and nobody plugging gaps.....So we end up with 2 isolated defenders being overwhelmed facing a wave of players coming at them - It has been dead obvious for a while and we get cut open so easily.

 

The problem with the full backs being more conservative though is we rely on them for attacking width.....

 

For my money for us to carry on playing how we do we need the midfield improvements - the addition of players with legs, physicality, the ability to win 2nd balls and sense and deal with danger - if we don't add them then we need to compensate for fact we don't have them....if we don't we will continue to leak goals like the one yesterday and we'll continue to be involved in helter skelter games.

 

It is some gamble we are taking if we don't start the midfield rebuild now.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. 

The most frustrating part is both City and Arsenal look eminently bearable this season. With the quality in the other areas of the team, a half decent midfield would mean we could give them both a real run for their money. 

Not buying in Jan would just be pathetic. It's so frustrating with FSG because you always feel like you are operating with one arm tied behind your back, while they educate us on why it's not possible/feasible/reasonable. 

During the pandemic the impression given was that all the clubs spending would be screwed and we would hoover up afterwards. They are still finding ways to spend and we are still finding ways to not. 

[TheHowieLama]

They are both unbearable.

[an tha]

We are signing a good midfielder in January.

 

We simply have to and I just can't see us being so stupid as not to.

 

 

[Lee909]

If we aren't signing anyone either moving g to a deeper 4231 

------------Fabinho---Thiago

Salah------------Bobby-------Gakpo

----------------------Nunez

 

Or trying Trent as the rcm of the three and playing Gomez as RB makes sense. Trent can still get into the positions wife right like de Bruyne does. Just needs drilled into him he needs to get back and defend. Will stop us being so bloody vulnerable at the back post. Gomez looks far more switch on playing as a RB than CB these days. 

 

Oh and get Konate back in the team. 

[Red Shift]

2 hours ago, HBenn said:

Couldn't agree more. 

The most frustrating part is both City and Arsenal look eminently bearable this season. With the quality in the other areas of the team, a half decent midfield would mean we could give them both a real run for their money. 

Not buying in Jan would just be pathetic. It's so frustrating with FSG because you always feel like you are operating with one arm tied behind your back, while they educate us on why it's not possible/feasible/reasonable. 

During the pandemic the impression given was that all the clubs spending would be screwed and we would hoover up afterwards. They are still finding ways to spend and we are still finding ways to not. 

In my honest opinion, we cannot buy our way out of bad performances in January. Basically, I think the attitude of our midfield not having the required skill set, or being ‘too old’ is wrong on both counts.

 

What sets City and Arsenal apart from us this season, is motivation. Pure and simple - and I can state with confidence that if we were in either of their positions right now, we’d be a totally different team - highly motivated. Good results breed good mentality.

 

We simply cannot understate the importance of getting out of the blocks quickly at the start of the season. We fucked up the season with a totally complacent attitude for whatever reason - right back in the first 5 games.

 

As a result, the players haven’t got the fight for the title, and the problem with that, having won and come so close in three out of four seasons, is that they’ve lost sight of the the fact that top four is extremely important. In their heads they’re thinking ‘but we’re the best - we should be up there at the top, none of this top four shit for us’

 

Yes we could buy maybe 1 or possibly 2 players, but who motivates them? Once on the field, they’ll quickly fall into line and go with the general apathy.

 

This season is done and dusted realistically, and I’d not be at all surprised to see us in the Europa league next season. Not what I want. Not what the owners or Jurgen wants. The players, on the other hand, have a massive mental challenge ahead if them to manifest anything else but.

[an tha]

21 minutes ago, Red Shift said:

In my honest opinion, we cannot buy our way out of bad performances in January. Basically, I think the attitude of our midfield not having the required skill set, or being ‘too old’ is wrong on both counts.

 

What sets City and Arsenal apart from us this season, is motivation. Pure and simple - and I can state with confidence that if we were in either of their positions right now, we’d be a totally different team - highly motivated. Good results breed good mentality.

 

We simply cannot understate the importance of getting out of the blocks quickly at the start of the season. We fucked up the season with a totally complacent attitude for whatever reason - right back in the first 5 games.

 

As a result, the players haven’t got the fight for the title, and the problem with that, having won and come so close in three out of four seasons, is that they’ve lost sight of the the fact that top four is extremely important. In their heads they’re thinking ‘but we’re the best - we should be up there at the top, none of this top four shit for us’

 

Yes we could buy maybe 1 or possibly 2 players, but who motivates them? Once on the field, they’ll quickly fall into line and go with the general apathy.

 

This season is done and dusted realistically, and I’d not be at all surprised to see us in the Europa league next season. Not what I want. Not what the owners or Jurgen wants. The players, on the other hand, have a massive mental challenge ahead if them to manifest anything else but.

I tell you what i'd say if you were right that is actually an even bigger problem and more unacceptable than what i personally believe is wrong - which is the midfield is not fit for function, legs have gone in it, hasn't got right mix etc.

[Red Shift]

2 hours ago, an tha said:

I tell you what i'd say if you were right that is actually an even bigger problem and more unacceptable than what i personally believe is wrong - which is the midfield is not fit for function, legs have gone in it, hasn't got right mix etc.

Thiago was in and out of the the team last season. Henderson / Fabinho / Jones was a common midfield lineup.

 

Last season was pretty impressive. Last season was just 6 months ago.

 

Sorry, but I can’t believe that their all crocked.

[Jurgen Knows]

I think there is an element of truth in both view points. They do seem to be suffering from mental fatigue after some grueling seasons and near misses. That was bound to take its toll.

[Bjornebye]

Harvey Elliot blessed himself at ibrox/mordor while he was waiting for var to confirm his first goal in the European Cup, Mo Sarah jumped on him with a huge smile when it was given. It finished, them 1: Liverpool 7. 

 

If Harvey Elliot is classed as a midfielder then we will be just fine. 

 

 

[Red Shift]

2 hours ago, Red Shift said:

Thiago was in and out of the the team last season. Henderson / Fabinho / Jones was a common midfield lineup.

 

Last season was pretty impressive. Last season was just 6 months ago.

 

Sorry, but I can’t believe that they’re all crocked.

I do that a lot. Get my they’re their there’s mixed up. Annoys me.

[stringvest]

7 hours ago, Red Shift said:

Thiago was in and out of the the team last season. Henderson / Fabinho / Jones was a common midfield lineup.

 

Last season was pretty impressive. Last season was just 6 months ago.

 

Sorry, but I can’t believe that their all crocked.

Thiago played most games.  And when he played he was our best midfielder.  The results back that up.  Without him we are pretty poor

[Bobby Hundreds]

To be fair we are pretty poor with him too.

[VladimirIlyich]

19 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

To be fair we are pretty poor with him too.

Don't destroy Stringy's Thiago love affair. He can do no wrong.

[Carvalho Diablo]

22 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

To be fair we are pretty poor with him too.

Tbf he's doing the job of 3 people all by himself. The Leicester game being a perfect example.

[an tha]

8 hours ago, Red Shift said:

Thiago was in and out of the the team last season. Henderson / Fabinho / Jones was a common midfield lineup.

 

Last season was pretty impressive. Last season was just 6 months ago.

 

Sorry, but I can’t believe that their all crocked.

Teams often walked through our midfield then - Alisson made a large number of 1 on 1 saves.

 

Henderson has got slower and less mobile, Jones has barely played and we have (as was often case in 1st half of last season too when our results were poorer than in a more settled 2nd half of season) seen a revolving door in midfield, with a kid in Elliott who is learning on the job playing often and a nearly 37 year old Milner also playing. 

 

Our 'best' form last season came with a 3 of Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago - the challenges often started when that 3 could not be fielded and in particular when Thiago was missing....it probably remains our best 3 still now this season - that fact alone is a problem IMO - especially given the paucity of options when we can't field it/Hendo's inability to cope with 2/3 games in a week....Thiago's fitness problems....

 

As i say if you are right that our problems are down to a lack of motivation and fight - then we have even worse problems than thought - the very least I expect even if we had a team as poor as Everton's is motivation/fight and lots of it.

 

 

[Grinch]

The only midfielder doing their job on their own is whoever gets the thankless task of playing as the six.   Elliot running around like a headless chicken and Thiago resembling a 49 year old failing miserable to do what we ask of our 8s.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Elliot is not a midfielder chris whitty could knock him off the ball. I keep hearing its not Elliots natural position but what is? 

[Grinch]

4 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Elliot is not a midfielder chris whitty could knock him off the ball. I keep hearing its not Elliots natural position but what is? 

Like Carvalho & Thiago.  We don’t plY a formation that suit them.  They have no place here at all.  
 

The two young ones might learn to adapt.  Won’t help us anytime soon.

[Lee909]

For as good as Thiago is he is still as one paced as the rest and one quick movement of the ball catches all of them out and takes the midfield out the game. You can mitigate them limitations is the other 2 can get around the field and hold their positions. 

 

I'd be looking at Trent as that RCM until we get someone in. Get Gomez in at RB. Adds some legs to the midfield and stops teams having that out ball behind Trent. Also stops us getting done at the back post while Trent stands waiting for the ball

[Elite]

9 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

For as good as Thiago is he is still as one paced as the rest and one quick movement of the ball catches all of them out and takes the midfield out the game. You can mitigate them limitations is the other 2 can get around the field and hold their positions. 

 

I'd be looking at Trent as that RCM until we get someone in. Get Gomez in at RB. Adds some legs to the midfield and stops teams having that out ball behind Trent. Also stops us getting done at the back post while Trent stands waiting for the ball

I think it's definitely worth a try. I'm no Gomez fan but he'd offer more defensively than Trent and Trent could get into great positions offensively where he's at his best.

[Grinch]

7 minutes ago, Elite said:

I think it's definitely worth a try. I'm no Gomez fan but he'd offer more defensively than Trent and Trent could get into great positions offensively where he's at his best.

Gonez isn’t even close to being good as Trent defensively.

[Scott_M]

We’ve missed Keita this season.

 

Mock away, but he played 40+ times last season and was available for the majority of the run in. 
 

Anyway, hopefully tomorrow is the first time we’ve had Fabinho, Hendo and Thiago all available since, dunno, Fulham? 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Trent gets caught ball watching at RB. Putting him in midfield is worth a try, but I fear it'd just be shifting the problem forward into an already porous midfield. Another adaptable player who doesn't really fit there.

 

Our biggest issue is too many players out of form. Elliott did well in midfield when others around him were functioning. Now, Henderson and Fabinho aren't closing gaps as well; we don't have a bulletproof CB pairing; both flanks are malfunctioning, and we've always relied on right and left sided midfielders to shift wide and cover gaps.

[joe_fishfish]

Trent into midfield needs to happen imo. Improves the midfield and the defence.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

1 hour ago, Scott_M said:

We’ve missed Keita this season.

 

Mock away, but he played 40+ times last season and was available for the majority of the run in. 
 

Anyway, hopefully tomorrow is the first time we’ve had Fabinho, Hendo and Thiago all available since, dunno, Fulham? 

As disappointing a signing as he’s been, you have a point. Our win rare with him in the team is also surprisingly high. Make of it what you want, we obviously need to get rid of him anyway.