Keir Starmer

[Kepler-186]

The direction of travel of this government is ever to the right, dressed up as patriotism, when as Section says all we do is put our hand in the other guys pocket. 

If Starmer’s MO is “we’re just a bit nicer than Tories, but don’t worry we’ll still fuck the poor over” then he should expect to get grief from people who want more radical change. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 minutes ago, Kepler-186 said:

The direction of travel of this government is ever to the right, dressed up as patriotism, when as Section says all we do is put our hand in the other guys pocket. 

If Starmer’s MO is “we’re just a bit nicer than Tories, but don’t worry we’ll still fuck the poor over” then he should expect to get grief from people who want more radical change. 

He should expect grief from those people no matter what his actual objective is, because it's not about what the actual objective is it's about tribalism. If his objective is 'we'll still fuck over the poor', he shouldn't just get grief from those who want radical change but from the entire Labour party. Of course, I highly doubt it's to fuck over the poor. 

[Kepler-186]

10 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

He should expect grief from those people no matter what his actual objective is, because it's not about what the actual objective is it's about tribalism. If his objective is 'we'll still fuck over the poor', he shouldn't just get grief from those who want radical change but from the entire Labour party. Of course, I highly doubt it's to fuck over the poor. 

A Labour Party that won’t end PFI scandals, benefit sanctions, zero hour contracts, stand up to draconian legislation like the Police and Crime Bill or cuts to people’s pensions is just Tory lite with some social justice thrown in for PR. Cheers, Kier, I’ll have some of that! 
 

In all seriousness, I understand the difficulties he’s got trying to adapt the Labour Party to what he thinks will help get him elected, and I think you explain that very well Numero.
 

But surely a left wing party can’t be courting right wing policies just to get popular? Isn’t it their job to advocate for progressive policies and fight the status quo no matter what? Otherwise what’s the point? 

[Bruce Spanner]

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

 

Huge, and very important, difference between 'Patriotism' and 'Nationalism'

[Anubis]

The Leader’s Office on their game, I see.

 

 

But hang on, isn’t that picture from 2019, Keir?

 

And who is that on the poster you are holding up?

 

[Jairzinho]

Fella behind the woman in the pink scarf looks absolutely made up. 

[Section_31]

I don't think the British are particularly nationalistic, just look at GB News. 

 

The way some look down on refugees isn't about them not being from England IMO, but more about having no sympathy for them. They show the same level of disdain for people on benefits, people from poor towns and any number of others. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

No one hates the British more than the British

 

We're the best in the world at it. It's one of the reasons I'm proud to be... you get the point.

[Captain Willard]

35 minutes ago, Anubis said:

The Leader’s Office on their game, I see.

 

 

But hang on, isn’t that picture from 2019, Keir?

 

And who is that on the poster you are holding up?

 

Just ludicrous incompetence. At a time when Labour have got an open goal re honesty and trust, they put out a needless tweet based on a lie. If you look carefully he’s actually wearing a poppy. Unbelievable. 

[Arniepie]

21 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I don't think the British are particularly nationalistic, just look at GB News. 

 

The way some look down on refugees isn't about them not being from England IMO, but more about having no sympathy for them. They show the same level of disdain for people on benefits, people from poor towns and any number of others. 

Maybe not an overtly  American level of patriotism,but there is definitely an unpleasant undercurrent.

Just look at our unhealthy relationship with the war.

1 of the biggest problems labour has is that it has to try to appeal to be much more disparate base.From old school and young leftist progressive types, to centrist to red wall fuckwits who are essentially right wing

The tories don't appear to have this problem or rather tory voters will vote for then no matter what.

Even if the pm literally spits in the face of everyone who followed the rules.

It barely dents them

 

[Arniepie]

9 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Just ludicrous incompetence. At a time when Labour have got an open goal re honesty and trust, they put out a needless tweet based on a lie. If you look carefully he’s actually wearing a poppy. Unbelievable. 

Tbf

This shower of cunts have had an utter monopoly on incompetence 

[Arniepie]

13 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yeah. Any case of blaming voters seems to be wildly missing the point and deflecting responsibility. It might be accurate in terms of a skin-deep analysis - Brexit idiots, etc - but any politicians solely blaming the voters is failing to understand the root cause of their loss. The Tories are far more concerned with winning than any party centre of left if centre, who seem much more concerned with being right than being popular. I’m my view, Corbyn was ‘right’ on a lot of things, Miliband was ‘right’ on a lot of things, Brown was ‘right’ on a lot of things, but what does it matter if you lose elections. If your sole objective is to be right, become an academic. If you want to win elections, you have to be popular. If they don’t have the humility to appeal to voters - in a representative democracy - and you want to blame them for being wrong, rather than using all the available tools to convince them to vote for you, then you’ve no business being in politics. 

 

There’s a difference between the demonisation of the working classes that happens in crap publications like the Mail and the personal blame and criticism of voters by members of political parties. If you’re not willing to go to the Sun, the Mail, the Telegraph readers to win their vote, and instead sneer at their wrongness, you’re doomed from the start. Enjoy the Tory government. Bask in the glory of being right. The Tories will sit in No. 10 quite literally quaffing champagne, whilst chiselling off bits of country for the profit of their mates. Yeah, it’s the voters who’re stupid. If only they’d stop being cunts and vote for the person I want rather than those parties taking responsibility and fixing the issue. Annoyingly ineffective. 

But what you are saying then it simply doesn't matter what you say,simply say the right thing and you will get elected. 

I completely agree just look at the current incumbent. The difference is however,he can get away with lying on a daily basis.

I've said it a million times but imagine if the last 2 years,a Labour government had lurched from 1 Disaster to the next.

The outrage would be off the scale.

Fucking hell,they are still hammered over the winter of discontent from 40 years ago.

The dice is massively loaded

 

[Arniepie]

12 hours ago, sh#t waffle said:

Ah yes, the famous respect with which tories treat the working class – it's something we could all aspire to.

It's huge ironic isn't it?

Labour treating the electorate whilst disdain whilst tories happily.see kids going hungry.

[Jack the Sipper]

9 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

Just ludicrous incompetence. At a time when Labour have got an open goal re honesty and trust, they put out a needless tweet based on a lie. If you look carefully he’s actually wearing a poppy. Unbelievable. 

 

Yeah, cos some backroom bod doing his social media sticking up a dated photo really nullifies his attacks on this governments lies and corruption.

 

Unbelievable.

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Yeah, cos some backroom bod doing his social media sticking up a dated photo really nullifies his attacks on this governments lies and corruption.

 

Unbelievable.

Yes but don’t you see the low expectations of competence by Labour HQ embedded in your point. All they had to do was put up a picture but they managed to create a story about Starmer’s hypocrisy in calling out the Government for lies in a tweet based on a lie. I was in the Labour Party for decades and I now see the Torys in action day to day  and the difference in basic competence of running a party is staggering. This is part of Labour’s problem, they’re just really bad at the mechanics of being a political party. 

[Jack the Sipper]

29 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

Yes but don’t you see the low expectations of competence by Labour HQ embedded in your point. All they had to do was put up a picture but they managed to create a story about Starmer’s hypocrisy in calling out the Government for lies in a tweet based on a lie. I was in the Labour Party for decades and I now see the Torys in action day to day  and the difference in basic competence of running a party is staggering. This is part of Labour’s problem, they’re just really bad at the mechanics of being a political party. 

 

Created a story? I think a sense of perspective is called for here.

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

12 hours ago, Arniepie said:

But what you are saying then it simply doesn't matter what you say,simply say the right thing and you will get elected. 

I completely agree just look at the current incumbent. The difference is however,he can get away with lying on a daily basis.

I've said it a million times but imagine if the last 2 years,a Labour government had lurched from 1 Disaster to the next.

The outrage would be off the scale.

Fucking hell,they are still hammered over the winter of discontent from 40 years ago.

The dice is massively loaded

 

Something went wrong in my response to this, so I deleted it as it was only half there. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 hour ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Created a story? I think a sense of perspective is called for here.

 

 

Yeah, seems like absolutely nothing to me.  I don’t think there’s any story and I don’t think they’ve lied. Somebody just used a stock picture of him. Daft but doesn’t undermine Starmer or his trustworthiness. 

[Jairzinho]

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Is there really nobody in the Labour Party that could have popped up and said that slogan - that I've already forgotten - might not be quite that catchy or fuckin' memorable? 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

On 15/02/2022 at 22:15, Anubis said:

The Leader’s Office on their game, I see.

 

 

But hang on, isn’t that picture from 2019, Keir?

 

And who is that on the poster you are holding up?

 

[Gnasher]

So here we have someone on the right of the Tory Party pulling up someone on the left of the Labour Party for sounding right wing on law and order, hmm,

 

 

Edit; Ang might've been having a chat on law and order with Labour's Steve Reed, who's ideas on drug policy are almost as ludicrous,

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-drugs-steve-reed-name-b2014746.html

[Numero Veinticinco]

Is he trying to pin that on Starmer? Wrong DPP. 

[Captain Turdseye]

So he’s a terrorist enabler now as well. There are no depths he won’t sink to.  

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Can't help but feel that Labour's best chance right now is saying as little as possible and hoping the Tories continue to implode.